How are Antifa not Nazis?

[Xarkan]

That's not a shared opinion in this thread.

But fuck it. It's not fascism, since that word is forbidden to be used on people on the left that support violence against opposing opinions. Great. That goes great with "They need to kill someone to matter".

Is there any term you'll allow for violent people fine with dictatorship on the left? Or are all bad words for right wing people?

Theres ... several left leaning dictatorship factions

I mean Stalinists and Maoists still exist. The left has had and still has its own brands of awful too.

The point is more that the tool in this case is used for so many ideologies. Some of them probably worse than Fascism. Isis does political violence and suppression for example.

[OrcsRLame]

So the antiglobalists from Hamburg are antifa now? For some reason when I googled the Hamburg riots with antifa, the results I got were only from sites like Breitbart and RT. Weird.

I could speculate as to why this is. The most simple explanation is that most mainstream news organizations are left wing, and reporting on the G20 protests gives some legitimacy to the right wing narrative that the left is violent. It would go against their self interest to report on that. This is why I prefer independent journalists like Tim Pool. As he put it in one of his videos, as soon as he records a cop hitting someone with a baton, people on the left tweet about it and act like police brutality is destroying the world. As soon as he records a protester throwing a bottle someone on the right tweets about it and starts moaning about the violence of the left.

[JohnBrown1917]

The title is clickbait. See the body of text for my actual position and arguments.

That explains why you have not refuted anybody on here yet.

[OrcsRLame]

Is fighting Nazis bad now

Refer to my section on the Ministry of Truth.

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"Antifa" is an abbreviation for "Anti fascist".

Nazis actually were fascists.

Refer to my section on the Ministry of Truth.

[Deleted]

I could speculate as to why this is. The most simple explanation is that most mainstream news organizations are left wing, and reporting on the G20 protests gives some legitimacy to the right wing narrative that the left is violent. It would go against their self interest to report on that.

Thats a conspiracy theory, which is against the forum rules.

I am from germany. The rioters in hamburg were anarchists and far left wing. There was no dedicated group of antifa rioters. Just some criminals that destroyed cars.

[Zecora]

I could speculate as to why this is. The most simple explanation is that most mainstream news organizations are left wing, and reporting on the G20 protests gives some legitimacy to the right wing narrative that the left is violent. It would go against their self interest to report on that. This is why I prefer independent journalists like Tim Pool. As he put it in one of his videos, as soon as he records a cop hitting someone with a baton, people on the left tweet about it and act like police brutality is destroying the world. As soon as he records a protester throwing a bottle someone on the right tweets about it and starts moaning about the violence of the left.

I don't think you got him. He didn't say that he didn't get any results when googling the Hamburg riots, just that only sites like Breitbart and RT couple those riots with Antifa. In other words, he is implying (and I rather think he is right) that the Riots had nothing to do with Antifa, EXCEPT in Breitbart and RT "news" and in the minds of certain (americans) with a right bent mind.

[Deleted]

Refer to my section on the Ministry of Truth.

Well, the ministry is doing rightspeak in this case, acting as if left is right.

And you are the ministry.

[Jastall]

Im not saying his antisemitism wasnt public, but its a stretch from running on the platform of a Holocaust.

Because they hadn't even decided on the Holocaust yet. But the rabid, violent antisemitism was plain to see, and very much appreciated by a large amount of Nazi supporters, even if likely not by a majority of Germans (reminder here that Hitler was chosen as Germany's leader by the clique in charge, he was not voted in and the Nazis never obtained a majority at any election before he became Chancellor).

Regardless, calling Antifa nazis is stupid. Insult them if you wish, some of them have very much deserved it several times over. They may act like Brown Shirts sometimes, but their goals are very far from Nazism, and their influence on their societies is nothing like what the Nazis achieved. It's literally a bunch of violent idiots, no different than hooligans, and they're not an existential threat to anything.

[Deleted]

I don't think you got him. He didn't say that he didn't get any results when googling the Hamburg riots, just that only sites like Breitbart and RT couple those riots with Antifa. In other words, he is implying (and I rather think he is right) that the Riots had nothing to do with Antifa, EXCEPT in Breitbart and RT "news" and in the minds of certain (americans) with a right bent mind.

Actually, it is the typical breitbart /RT propaganda which gets parroted by disinformed posters throughout all social media nowadays.

[Dextroden]

Theres ... several left leaning dictatorship factions

I mean Stalinists and Maoists still exist. The left has had and still has its own brands of awful too.

The point is more that the tool in this case is used for so many ideologies. Some of them probably worse than Fascism. Isis does political violence and suppression for example.

I can smell the nitpicks for calling them Stalinists already.

It certainly seems like the "king" of evil titles is fascist, which truly makes me think it's about avoiding being called that. It's the same tactics with things like racism vs reverse racism.

[OrcsRLame]

You want to pretend fighting Nazis is nationalistic?

Yeah. No.

When it's done with a nationalist agenda it is. Anything could be nationalistic with the right motive. They're not trying to stop Nazis in general, they are trying to keep Germany pure. It's almost like you didn't watch the videos.

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You dont even know what fascism means and use made up criterias.

I linked the definition of Fascism and broke down that definition into what I saw as the essential components. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascism

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That explains why you have not refuted anybody on here yet.

Point me to a post you think I should refute. Most of the posts here did not address arguments I actually made so I didn't consider them to be worth responding to. Why should I argue my position against someone that misrepresents it?

[Deleted]

When it's done with a nationalist agenda it is.

But it isnt. Antifa fights Fascism no matter from which nation the fascists are.

They're not trying to stop Nazis in general

Sure they want, that is actually what anti fascist movements are about.

You also mix up left wing extremist rioters with anti fascists, while there is only propaganda saying that "antifa" did riots.

Or do you want to pretend Breitbart and RT actually are viable news outlets?

[OrcsRLame]

Thats a conspiracy theory, which is against the forum rules.

I am from germany. The rioters in hamburg were anarchists and far left wing. There was no dedicated group of antifa rioters. Just some criminals that destroyed cars.

It's actually literally not a conspiracy theory. I didn't say that these news organizations are conspiring together. All I said is that absent any other evidence, I would assume that they would act in rational self interest. I am literally saying that there's not a conspiracy theory.

It's cute that you think I care about forum rules though.

[KrazyK923]

lol Tim Pool.

What an unbiased source.

[OrcsRLame]

I don't think you got him. He didn't say that he didn't get any results when googling the Hamburg riots, just that only sites like Breitbart and RT couple those riots with Antifa. In other words, he is implying (and I rather think he is right) that the Riots had nothing to do with Antifa, EXCEPT in Breitbart and RT "news" and in the minds of certain (americans) with a right bent mind.

If those rioters were not Antifa, then that it my mistake. I do recall seeing some dressed in the typical Black Bloc uniform and flying the Anarcho-Communist flag, which is kind of Antifa's calling card at this point. If there's another group that does that, well, that is also worrying to me, and it's the first I've heard of it.

[arandomuser]

Hm well the core essence of nazi ideology is that races are different and government policy should treat races different, which is basically what everyone on the right wing spectrum of the internet is calling for --But somehow, nazis(despite believing their core ideology)... And antifa arent nazis because they are against people calling for eugenics? which kind of seems like the right thing to be but somehow in 2017 people believe more than ever the eugenics philosophy.


And to add to that, i would consider advocating for eugenics violent speech that should not be protected, and de platformed at all cost, eugenicist ideology is more dangeous and HAS been more dangerous than, I mean is there even a leftist equivelent to calling for a systemetic murder of all people with genetics deemed inferior by the state?

[Deleted]

I linked the definition of Fascism and broke down that definition into what I saw as the essential components. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascism

No, you didnt.

Here is the definition:

A political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition.

1.) Antifa arent nationalists, they oppose nationalist socialism, and mainly come from the left and far left spectrum
2.) Most of the rioters your propaganda video talk about are infact anarchists, they oppose an autocratic government headed by a dictator
3.) economic and social reglementation refers to the corporate government of a Benito Mussolini, which means a merger of state and corporations, which the Antifa or even the rioters you refer to are neither able to build nor interested to build. Actually, the g20 demonstrators demonstrated AGAINST a corporate government as like Trump is building in america (made out of bankers, billionaires, and generals)
4.) You cannot "suppress" opposition, if you arent in power.

At the end, you just parroted RT and breitbart. And believe all their lies.

[Hiricine]

Well they aren't nationalistic Germans (generally speaking), though they generally are socialists, so you do capture about half of the name of the party.

Trying to identify people with a label as a means of debunking their arguments is a terrible argument. Instead we can talk about how they're petty black bloc-ers who try to shut down speech through violence, then when they're confronted by people willing to defend themselves they get their asses kicked. So they don't even want to show up for the debate, and they even lose when people fight them on their own terms.

[OrcsRLame]

But it isnt. Antifa fights Fascism no matter from which nation the fascists are.



Sure they want, that is actually what anti fascist movements are about.

You also mix up left wing extremist rioters with anti fascists, while there is only propaganda saying that "antifa" did riots.

Or do you want to pretend Breitbart and RT actually are viable news outlets?

Then why did they kick the guy that they thought was a Nazi out of the city and threaten to kill him if he came back? Their goal seemed to be removal of the Nazi from a certain place. Their actions just don't line up with what you're saying.

Note that I did not cite Breitbart or RT. I actually had to Google what RT is just now.

[KrazyK923]

People still take Sargon seriously after his history of flip-flopping harder than Mitt Romney on the campaign trail?

More and more people are finally realizing, like 2 years too late, that he's a reactionary who is full of shit, a 9/11 truther retard, and a morally bankrupt child who flip flops between issues (Like Milo did) to get popularity.

I still feel like shit that I promoted him early on during the days of GamerGate. I wish I knew what a fraud he was.