the sun and nature magic

[melzas]

It's funny to me that despite Tauren Sunwalkers "not making any sense" to so many players, Blood Elf is the most popular race for Paladin. Another race that didn't make any sense to be a Paladin - even less sense than Sunwalkers, yet here they are.

Paladin went from being a religious order that creates light-infused warriors from pure faith to a cheap power battery that can siphoned. If that's the case, Orcs are JUST as capable of being a Blood Knight/Paladin given that lore establishment.

Pretty sure many high elves were paladins and part of The Silver Hand, so they based their new Blood Knight order on Silver Hand structures, making blood elf paladins more similar to alliance paladins.

Sunwalkers and their "sun magic" was just an excuse to give Tauren Paladins (which I don't mind, but still, let's not pretend it wasn't just half assed explanation to support more paladin choices for horde players). I'm just sad Blizzard didn't bother to at least rename skills that don't fit.

[huth]

Pretty sure many high elves were paladins and part of The Silver Hand, so they based their new Blood Knight order on Silver Hand structures, making blood elf paladins more similar to alliance paladins.

Sunwalkers and their "sun magic" was just an excuse to give Tauren Paladins (which I don't mind, but still, let's not pretend it wasn't just half assed explanation to support more paladin choices for horde players). I'm just sad Blizzard didn't bother to at least rename skills that don't fit.

AFAIK, the old Silver Hand was exclusively dwarves and humans. Blood/High Elf Paladins didn't show up till WoW.

[melzas]

AFAIK, the old Silver Hand was exclusively dwarves and humans. Blood/High Elf Paladins didn't show up till WoW.

Pretty sure that when you did the blood elf pala charger quest, you go to the stratholme to burn down Silver Hand chapel and NPCs mention that they were training there or something like that. Would have to double check this.

EDIT: found it on wowpedia

. Some of these elves had been knights of the Silver Hand before the Third War, such as Mehlar Dawnblade, a former pupil of Uther who held his former master indirectly responsible for the fall of Quel'Thalas. To prove their dominance over the Light, Blood Knights were sent to defile the Alonsus Chapel, the Silver Hand's founding place.

[chr2]

dont mind the whole: light + arcane= nature, its just a last thought i had that makes sense to me considering that blizzard hasnt eally explained how each type of magic is form other tan saying they appeared after the universe was created

I´m tired of arguing about the sunwalkers with you, there is so much lore that supports sunwalkers being something akin to sun druids than there is to support them being paladins. The only reason they are paladins is because Blizzard needed to give taurens a new class

The tweet you cited is incomplete, later it says: "for game-related reasons.."

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Source on this pls, if stars are nature + arcane, then the sun could be nature + light, which is something similar to what i said in the op

So is this what this thread is? Discussing semantics? For all intents and purposes sunwalkers are "sun druids", in that the organisation was formed by former druids... you know just like warlocks (or do you prefer "fel shaman"?) were former shaman, and paladins ("battle priests" is it?) derived from former priests.

If you wanna get really specific, then no, Sunwalkers aren't paladins, since the term 'paladin' was invented specifically for the Order of the Silver Hand with their belief in the Holy Light. But then neither are vindicators. Or blood knights.

In a more general sense paladins (and priests) simply refer to people who wield the Light in one way or another. All evidence we have so far indicates that Sunwalkers wield the Light. I suggest you read up on Sunwalker Dezco and the Dawnchaser tribe. The short story "Bleeding Sun" clearly shows that Dezco wields the Light. Here's a couple quotes for ya:

"He whispered a prayer to An'she and wove a protective shield of light around Cloudhoof to keep him safe from the battle he knew was coming."

"Dezco cracked his mace into the hound, shattering its head. A wave of light exploded out from the blow, cascading toward one of the Shao-Tien."

You might not like the explanation for this. I'm not sure I do either, but that's how Blizzard wanted it.

[Piamonte]

It's right in the tooltip. And it's star spells, not stars themselves. In fact, we have not been given any indication that the actual stars are anything more than big plasma balls.


Not really. There's only you two believing it, and there is no support for it anywhere. It's not even shown that mixing magic in this way is even possible, or that Life, Order and Light are related in such a way that this would be possible. It isn't enough that the Chronicle doesn't contradict you. There is no such thing as a proof by non-contradiction.

Also, both Gul'dan and Elisande got their access to time magic from the Eye of Aman'thul, while the Bronze Flight was empowered by Aman'thul himself. Time affecting magic in general is associated with Arcane magic.

i have always thought that the powers that balance druids use are quite literal, in the sense that they ask or commune with Elune for the power of the stars and she gives it to them, so if the spells are "astral" in nature then the stars are also astral as well, but thats jut how i see things im not saying its actually like that unless until is confirmed

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So is this what this thread is? Discussing semantics? For all intents and purposes sunwalkers are "sun druids", in that the organisation was formed by former druids... you know just like warlocks (or do you prefer "fel shaman"?) were former shaman, and paladins ("battle priests" is it?) derived from former priests.

If you wanna get really specific, then no, Sunwalkers aren't paladins, since the term 'paladin' was invented specifically for the Order of the Silver Hand with their belief in the Holy Light. But then neither are vindicators. Or blood knights.

In a more general sense paladins (and priests) simply refer to people who wield the Light in one way or another. All evidence we have so far indicates that Sunwalkers wield the Light. I suggest you read up on Sunwalker Dezco and the Dawnchaser tribe. The short story "Bleeding Sun" clearly shows that Dezco wields the Light. Here's a couple quotes for ya:

"He whispered a prayer to An'she and wove a protective shield of light around Cloudhoof to keep him safe from the battle he knew was coming."

"Dezco cracked his mace into the hound, shattering its head. A wave of light exploded out from the blow, cascading toward one of the Shao-Tien."

You might not like the explanation for this. I'm not sure I do either, but that's how Blizzard wanted it.

well as i said, one way to explain it is to say that the sun is a source of both nature and light magic as well, but still... i sure dont like the way blizzard handled this

[Raetary]

Source on this pls, if stars are nature + arcane, then the sun could be nature + light, which is something similar to what i said in the op

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Astral

astral magic is a druidic multi-school, nothing more.

[huth]

i have always thought that the powers that balance druids use are quite literal, in the sense that they ask or commune with Elune for the power of the stars and she gives it to them, so if the spells are "astral" in nature then the stars are also astral as well, but thats jut how i see things im not saying its actually like that unless until is confirmed

Were did you get that idea from? That's the territory of Night Elf Priests, not Druids. Druids are the ones that aren't so big on Elune worship. And that doesn't explain any of the non-Night Elf Balance Druids.

[Wildmoon]

i have always thought that the powers that balance druids use are quite literal, in the sense that they ask or commune with Elune for the power of the stars and she gives it to them, so if the spells are "astral" in nature then the stars are also astral as well, but thats jut how i see things im not saying its actually like that unless until is confirmed

They do not gain power from worshiping Elune. Druids get it from druidism analogous to how mages get it from arcane art. If they get power from communing with Elune then Cenarius wouldn't turn down Tyrande and Malfurion would be like the worst druid ever because the dude could not stop questioning his wife's extraordinary faith in her goddess.

well as i said, one way to explain it is to say that the sun is a source of both nature and light magic as well, but still... i sure dont like the way blizzard handled this.

It does not matter if you like it or not. I and other people have already provided you with evidences. The short story chr2 quoted even mentions that the taurens got the light power from prayers. That's like the most obvious thing you could find.

[Piamonte]

They do not gain power from worshiping Elune. Druids get it from druidism analogous to how mages get it from arcane art. If they get power from communing with Elune then Cenarius wouldn't turn down Tyrande and Malfurion would be like the worst druid ever because the dude could not stop questioning his wife's extraordinary faith in her goddess.





It does not matter if you like it or not. I and other people have already provided you with evidences. The short story chr2 quoted even mentions that the taurens got the light power from prayers. That's like the most obvious thing you could find.

read the tooltip, balance druids spells, are moon spells, moon=elune

to be honest, other people have provided evidence, you are just jumping into the wagon, anyway its quite idiotic they "pray" to the sun for powers and the light answer the call, its just weird

[Wildmoon]

read the tooltip, balance druids spells, are moon spells, moon=elune

to be honest, other people have provided evidence, you are just jumping into the wagon, anyway its quite idiotic they "pray" to the sun for powers and the light answer the call, its just weird

Yeah because the light=naaru and nature=Cenarius too right? That logic is flawed. Just because they are entities that best represent certain power does not mean that you need their permissions to access those power. Cosmic forces are beyond any entity. I have provided so many evidences that you just decide to ignore because it does not fit your own view. You seem to be of the opinion that the lore must conform to your own view otherwise there are mistakes.

Just a simple observation of Malfurion's character destroys your whole argument. He has weak faith in Elune. To draw the power through faith you need adequate faith. Malfurion has used moonfire just fine. It implies that druidism has nothing to do with worshipping Elune and the instances of other races being able to use lunar spells line up with this line of reasoning. It's hard to argue against which is what you are doing by saying something like "it's wierd.", "I don't like it". You are not willing to accept the possibility that you don't actually have to pray to the light to get the power of the light when it has been demonstrated in lore.

[huth]

read the tooltip, balance druids spells, are moon spells, moon=elune

No, Moon doesn't equal Elune. Most moons aren't associated with her, only one of Azeroth's two. Elune implies Moon, but Moon does not imply Elune. Not even when you limit yourself to Azeroth.

And that's ignoring all the Balance spells that aren't lunar spells, which is more than half my arsenal.

[Piamonte]

Yeah because the light=naaru and nature=Cenarius too right? That logic is flawed. Just because they are entities that best represent certain power does not mean that you need their permissions to access those power. Cosmic forces are beyond any entity. I have provided so many evidences that you just decide to ignore because it does not fit your own view. You seem to be of the opinion that the lore must conform to your own view otherwise there are mistakes.

Just a simple observation of Malfurion's character destroys your whole argument. He has weak faith in Elune. To draw the power through faith you need adequate faith. Malfurion has used moonfire just fine. It implies that druidism has nothing to do with worshipping Elune and the instances of other races being able to use lunar spells line up with this line of reasoning. It's hard to argue against which is what you are doing by saying something like "it's wierd.", "I don't like it". You are not willing to accept the possibility that you don't actually have to pray to the light to get the power of the light when it has been demonstrated in lore.

no, because strictly moon=elune, its a very specific case, there is no flawed logic as you are just putting words in my mouth or failed to understand what i wrote

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No, Moon doesn't equal Elune. Most moons aren't associated with her, only one of Azeroth's two. Elune implies Moon, but Moon does not imply Elune. Not even when you limit yourself to Azeroth.

And that's ignoring all the Balance spells that aren't lunar spells, which is more than half my arsenal.

lunar spells from a balance druid (not the others which are not moon based) refer explicitly to the White lady aka the moon associated with Elune, i wont argue about this again because this is like common sense since wow vanilla

[Wildmoon]

no, because strictly moon=elune, its a very specific case, there is no flawed logic as you are just putting words in my mouth or failed to understand what i wrote

Moon does not strictly equate Elune like nature does not equate Cenarius or Void Lords does not equate void. That's where your logic fails. The point about druidism which I demonstrated you also seem to have conveniently ignored.

[Aeula]

Maybe the sun radiates the element of life or something along those lines? I can't remember if sun magic and life elementalism are confirmed to be separate.

[Piamonte]

Moon does not strictly equate Elune like nature does not equate Cenarius or Void Lords does not equate void. That's where your logic fails. The point about druidism which I demonstrated you also seem to have conveniently ignored.

that´s not my logic, this is hillarious, you are putting words in my mouth, i said it clearly, the moon=elune is an aislated, unique case, im not saying that every type of magic behaves like that, last time i answer to this nonsense

care to provide a source about the whole malfurion thing

[Al Gorefiend]

Where do people get this idea that some races can't use light magic? Is Light some racist concept? You have faith. You access the magic. You use it.

Any race can be a Paladin. It takes years of training and faith but why wouldn't any race be capable?

Opposite to Druids and Demon Hunters. Whereas druids are specifically chosen or blessed, and DHs were trained by xenophobic elitist.

[huth]

lunar spells from a balance druid (not the others which are not moon based) refer explicitly to the White lady aka the moon associated with Elune, i wont argue about this again because this is like common sense since wow vanilla

[citation needed]

a) You're moving goal posts. You didn't mention anything about this being limited to Druid spells previously.
b) You haven't shown any evidence that this is actually the case, but simply asserted it.

And the word is isolated. Not aislated.

[Deleted]

Whereas druids are specifically chosen or blessed.

Anyone can be a harvest-witch.

[huth]

Anyone can be a harvest-witch.

A harvest witch is not a full fledged druid, though. And the Worgen have a bit of an advantage through their curse.

[Al Gorefiend]

Anyone can be a harvest-witch.

Didn't Kosak say Harvest witches weren't actually druids?