Sorry your mythic+ score is too low?

[Sandraudiga]

I'd recommend everyone in this thread watch this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYhBPP-XI7M

Far too many people blindly use the score as a selection factor and its ruining the dungeon scene.
There are actual intelligent usages of the concept and its time to start demanding them.

For those in the thread who are new to the score, you unfortunately need to educate yourselves. The video will help with that too.

If a large number of people are aware of this type of misrepresentation - on both sides - we can stop worrying about it.

Refuse to join groups that say things like "2k score only" and NEVER mention score when forming your own pug.

I agree with you, but then I agreed that the concept of gearscore in wrath was cancer as well. As stupid as it is, there just isn't enough people who will ever view that to make a difference. I hope I am wrong, but history isn't on our side in this.

I think a more realistic solution is to group with your guild, and add players you encounter who are suitable to real ID to create a base of people to play with.

- - - Updated - - -

Having Keymaster, 1400+ score and being overgeared isn't joining the system then?

For some people it is, but its kind of like a snowball, the longer this goes on the worse it gets. I have friends who have been turned down to +10 dungeons with a 1500 score.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

I agree with you, but then I agreed that the concept of gearscore in wrath was cancer as well. As stupid as it is, there just isn't enough people who will ever view that to make a difference. I hope I am wrong, but history isn't on our side in this.

I think a more realistic solution is to group with your guild, and add players you encounter who are suitable to real ID to create a base of people to play with.

Well my take is on pugging purely. There is no reason we should discourage pugging, just bad practices.
Obviously I don't expect 10m players to view the video, but if everyone understands the concept and passes it along the community is better for it.
The system is broken, so those who realize that need to prevent its spread.

The difference with Gearscore is that at the time, that was actually a relevant metric of success, just like ilvl is now. Obviously not every player side by side can be adequately compared by ilvl, but in general the higher the ilvl the better the dps.

For Mythic+ score, its QUITE the opposite. It fails to take into account almost ANYTHING relevant to the pug group you are about to join. WoWprogress has some interested stats there, but that one is NOT one of them and needs to be disavowed.

[Seidhe]

Refuse to join groups that say things like "2k score only" and NEVER mention score when forming your own pug.

No thx. i will join 2.2 only pugs and will mention score everytime i would gather +15 and higher pugs. So i will avoid you joining my group!
And i for sure know that it is far better successful way to go m+, than urs random casuals groups.

[Sandraudiga]

Well my take is on pugging purely. There is no reason we should discourage pugging, just bad practices.
Obviously I don't expect 10m players to view the video, but if everyone understands the concept and passes it along the community is better for it.
The system is broken, so those who realize that need to prevent its spread.

The difference with Gearscore is that at the time, that was actually a relevant metric of success, just like ilvl is now. Obviously not every player side by side can be adequately compared by ilvl, but in general the higher the ilvl the better the dps.

For Mythic+ score, its QUITE the opposite. It fails to take into account almost ANYTHING relevant to the pug group you are about to join. WoWprogress has some interested stats there, but that one is NOT one of them and needs to be disavowed.

I can see your point, and agree with alot of it, but like all things it depends on alot of factors.

Take gearscore for instance, back in wotlk my guild would carry 5-8 buyers through 25m normal ICC for 5k gold each and 5 people through the first wing of 25m heroic for 10k with all loot going to the buyers. Then we would run a GDKP run on weekends. Getting a gearscore on par with heroic raiders generally cost 50-60k gold. Any server with a high raiding population was pretty much the same.

Mythic+ score is similar, you can get a vague idea of how good a person is, but there is far more to it than that. I have a few guildies with far higher mythic plus scores than me, but aren't really that good.

I think the mythic plus karma addon etc has promise, but would have to read alot more about it before deciding for sure.

[Deleted]

No thx. i will join 2.2 only pugs and will mention score everytime i would gather +15 and higher pugs. So i will avoid you joining my group!
And i for sure know that it is far better successful way to go m+, than urs random casuals groups.

What's your stance on the fact the "only 2.2k+" groups ignore that requirement if a "high enough ilvl" player signs up? I do one a week and avoid most of the dungeons, having a score of amazing 500-600 but get invited to these exclusive groups anyway because when I queue it lists my average ilvl as 945.

I personally don't care. I'm just there to get it done for weekly, and always do. The others in the group have the score required, but it's very common the time completed is meh either because the dps is a bit low or people make silly mistakes like pulling extra mobs, standing in shit or whatever, despite their score. The score honestly from my point of view doesn't drag in "the cream of the crop", I can buy it might help weed out some people, but then again... if you're one meh-ish dps that gets carried by two awesome dps the run is still decent and gives you a "good score", but doesn't necessarily reflect on your personally. Ya feel me?

[Mlz]

when I queue it lists my average ilvl as 945

Just nitpicking but it's not your average ilvl but rather your highest average ilvl in bags so most people know your equipped is probably ~10 ilvls lower (it's still very high, obviously).

Edit: just misunderstood

[Deleted]

Just nitpicking but it's not your average ilvl but rather your highest ilvl in bags so most people know your equipped is probably ~10 ilvls lower (it's still very high, obviously).

Well isn't that was average has always kinda been, the best you COULD potentionally wear in bags - naturally not possible to equip it fully due to legendary limit anymore, but still, it's the "same" as before? At least I'm pointing out it's the "average" rather than claiming "I'm 945 ilvl", however this detail of average seems to escape many people?
I guess I stick to saying average, since it's the number that shows when you queue up. I don't agree, I think it should show equipped, but on the other hand that would just lead to people changing gear for a higher one showing when you queue. I'd for example put on my OS gear that's 938, rather than 932 which is my actual MS ilvl. Which would be a problem in itself.
But regarding average, I guess the term is getting a bit outdated with legendaries pulling it up. Hnn.

[Mlz]

Well isn't that was average has always kinda been, the best you COULD potentionally wear in bags - naturally not possible to equip it fully due to legendary limit anymore, but still, it's the "same" as before? At least I'm pointing out it's the "average" rather than claiming "I'm 945 ilvl", however this detail of average seems to escape many people?
I guess I stick to saying average, since it's the number that shows when you queue up. I don't agree, I think it should show equipped, but on the other hand that would just lead to people changing gear for a higher one showing when you queue. I'd for example put on my OS gear that's 938, rather than 932 which is my actual MS ilvl. Which would be a problem in itself.
But regarding average, I guess the term is getting a bit outdated with legendaries pulling it up. Hnn.

It only counts as if you could wear 2 legendaries, so it doesn't affect much. It used to count all the legendaries and then people had 20-30 ilvl higher in bags than equipped.

Edit: and yes, you're right, the term 'average' does work if you see it as the average of all your items (=higest average) but in my mind it was just hard to comprehend as when something is simply average, I tend to see it as being able to go higher than that. So basically I misunderstood.

[Deleted]

It only counts as if you could wear 2 legendaries, so it doesn't affect much. It used to count all the legendaries and then people had 20-30 ilvl higher in bags than equipped.

Average implies you could go higher? Since when? Sorry, for me what I've played and people I've interacted with the two pairs have always been equipped (equipped, duh) and average (the biggest possible number), and there's been a lot of laughing about people saying "i'm xilvl" and they got shit in the past for "nah that's just your average, your equipped is x"

[trm90]

Thing is, it just sucks that pre-7.2 (or so), I could spend most of my time/energy in mythic raiding and jump in +10-15s with relative ease because I wasn't gated by a third party score. I get that people need a way to screen others, particularly if you wanna push high keys. But for god's sake, I've already done so many of these dungeons on +13-16 in the first 6 or 7 months of Legion, none of them count towards my score, yet apparently I'm not an experienced M+ player? People say you "just" have to keep running +13 and above keys (or whatever) for every dungeon, but that takes SO much time when it's so hard to join groups in the first place. The M+ meta constantly changes, sure, but it hasn't changed THAT much. For example Tyrannical Arcway is the exact same now as it was 6 months ago, basically.

That's really why I'm salty, a system that only had one barrier to entry - Keystone Master - is now suddenly a really intricate scoring system which isn't even created by Blizzard and completely foregoes the dozens of hours I already spent doing upper keys in the past. If M+ scores were always a thing, I wouldn't be whining, but the fact that it was implemented ages after we already achieved KM etc, is ridiculous.

[dirtybrew]

Well Keystone master is a complete joke and means nothing now. Goalposts have shifted quite a bit, since dungeons are far harder than they were a couple months ago and someone capable of doing a 15s in the past die may every 2 pulls and or put out subpar numbers in the present. Seen it happen a lot.

Every time ive assembled a group of complete randoms without vetting them i've regretted it. I do about a million dps as a tank in a lot of dungeons yet there are 930+ dps who can't even do that. At least experience and skill largely matters more than ilvl in this system.

[BiggestNoob]

M+ score is far more relevant than ilvl.

[ID811717]

I'd recommend everyone in this thread watch this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYhBPP-XI7M

In your video you said:

... because of how the scoring works, it heavily ramps up the amount of points it gives you the higher you go, so theoretically it could be possible that some people have one-two very high, say, plus 25, and multiple 10s as their highest they have ever done in other dungeons; that person might have a higher score than someone with an actual relevant experience for the dungeon you are about to do ...

The bottom line of your message is clear and reasonable.
But please check your facts about the score "heavily ramping up". You're just misleading people about how the system works.

[BananaHandsB]

Strange, in a world where getting ilvl is so easy, people would want another metric to weed out the baddies. Strange indeed. /sarcasm

- - - Updated - - -

Well isn't that was average has always kinda been, the best you COULD potentionally wear in bags - naturally not possible to equip it fully due to legendary limit anymore, but still, it's the "same" as before? At least I'm pointing out it's the "average" rather than claiming "I'm 945 ilvl", however this detail of average seems to escape many people?
I guess I stick to saying average, since it's the number that shows when you queue up. I don't agree, I think it should show equipped, but on the other hand that would just lead to people changing gear for a higher one showing when you queue. I'd for example put on my OS gear that's 938, rather than 932 which is my actual MS ilvl. Which would be a problem in itself.
But regarding average, I guess the term is getting a bit outdated with legendaries pulling it up. Hnn.

AVG ilvl is an irrelevant term. There's AVG equipped ilvl and MAX ilvl. Max ilvl means very little these days.

[ID811717]

I think most people in this thread fail to see the big picture.
The mythic+ score is not a magic solution to all your pug groups, neither it is an entirely useless metric.

- It is a very good tool for reasonably narrow group of people who push very high keys for fun and challenge.
- It is a rather bad metric for the lots of you who consider weekly chest a burden and do at most a single +15 run per week. Well, may be you can use it to your advantage and just avoid joining groups that are too focused on your M+ score. I never consider joining +15 pugs that ask something along the lines of "ilvl 930 and 1800ms or don't bother"... I mean, I meet better requirements than that, but if the party leader thinks that this is what it takes to clear +15, then I'm not interested in joining. Oh, and more generally. I avoid all groups that have anything negative in their name or description. Stuff like "no baddies", "don't suck", "no failers", and so on... (Some of you will disagree, but "don't bother" and "be good" also sounds as something negative to me.) Just like in case of requiring a huge mythic+ score for a weekly +15 run, these are all different ways how a party leader can raise a red flag showing that this might not be a run I could enjoy.

[Marrilaife]

Oh, and more generally. I avoid all groups that have anything negative in their name or description. Stuff like "no baddies", "don't suck", "no failers", and so on...

Yep, I avoid these too, I only run "weekly chest" on a few alts and last thing I want to bother with is the more toxic corners of the community.

I once spent 1,5h in pre-nerf lower kara pug, people were a bit undergeared and much clueless (myself included since I avoided kara in the first place), but since everyone was decent human beings, cared about finishing the weekly and worked together on a solution, we finished it. I'd much rather take that than for example a different pug in EOA where people started raging, arguing, blaming each other and in the end healer went off to ninjapull some mobs and dropped the group.

One reason why I started avoiding like the plague any people from Outland-EU, 90% of them I've met so far were elitist pricks with nasty attitude. No idea why, but had way too many bad experiences with them in m+. Just to add, no, it's not a server known for any specific nationality contrary to NA folks who avoid servers associated with South American nations.

[Erolian]

Its really not that hard to create your own groups unless you aren't doing that well yourself. Like my m+ score is probably trash but I end up carrying random people every week for my weekly 15s and I know there are a ton of raiders who do the same thing. Sometimes you'll get a tank or dps or something that are so bad its not on time but whatever you're only there for the weekly chest anyways. Seems like M+ score is mostly useless unless you're trying to judge a group of people pushing times. As long as you're capable of intelligently selecting your group members its not really something to worry about or look at

[Deleted]

AVG ilvl is an irrelevant term. There's AVG equipped ilvl and MAX ilvl. Max ilvl means very little these days.

Well it seems to mean more than m+ score which supposedly is super relevant (based on this thread), seeing as the max ilvl (which is the ilvl listed when you queue) reflects a fairly high equipped ilvl which I use to bypass the "requirement" of high m+ score :P

[Deleted]

I like RNG. Both in legendaries and TF. Same for pug M+ groups.
I just ask for appropriate ilvl and thats it. Oh, and healer cant be disc priest, had bad experiences with them.
Its much more fun for me to NOT know player history in M+, never liked weeding and separating people by some score. Everyone have same chance to be invited in my groups. Yes, I was wrong few times, but then again, I didnt waste time checking wowprogress.

[Deleted]

Its an ongoing proces. Ofcourse its only numbers sites like wowprogress and raider.io can display, but you can make a decent impression of the player you are looking at.
I make my own mythic+ groups for 15 and higher keys. I mention in LFG that i check wowprogress. The m+ score is a guideline for me, you can tell from the keys they ran, the amount of dungeons they did etc if its an experienced player or not.
For lower keys i dont mind who we take, but for the higher ones you just want some experienced people in the group. Im just a casual player and i notice a decent curve upwards in difficulty after 15s.

Mythic+ is fairly new thou, so sites like wowprogress.com and raider.io are doing a great job of finding ways to give a good reflection of players capabilities. Still the best method imo is, like people mentioned before me, building a decent battlenet friendslist.
And if you really like running mythic+ and put effort in it, you just have to put some of that effort in building a friends list.