Should Doomplate Thrall return as a main character and Warchief?

[Moozart]

ok... that still doesn't change the fact that horde has a warchief

Nothing I posted said otherwise. You clearly have some reading comprehension issues as I was simply pointing out character differences between the two. Mainly showing shes is only for herself(and UD) and not for the entire horde.

[united]

ok... that still doesn't change the fact that horde has a warchief

Nothing I posted said otherwise. You clearly have some reading comprehension issues as I was simply pointing out character differences between the two. Mainly showing shes is only for herself(and UD) and not for the entire horde.

you were responding to someone that said that the horde clearly has a warchief.

your response was just a mini rant about how "sylvanus cares only bout herself"

so maybe you have reading comprehension issues, because that would be seen as an argument about how the horde has a hole in the warchief position.

[Trassk]

The hordes pretty much lost its soul now anyway, vol'jin and cairne are dead, thralls retired, there's no real structure left in it just past examples of great things. Thralls really got nothing to come back to.

[Sky High]

I voted NO on account I think Thrall's time in the spot light is well over, but since Blizz can't seem to come up with another charismatic Orc leader figure (that isn't his father) I wouldn't be that upset if he did.

[Techno-Druid]

I voted NO on account I think Thrall's time in the spot light is well over, but since Blizz can't seem to come up with another charismatic Orc leader figure (that isn't his father) I wouldn't be that upset if he did.

I think Saurfang would make a great Warchief, with Baine and Eitrigg as his advisors.

Alternately, Rexxar as Warchief could mean the full integration of more ogre clans and the Mok'Nathal into the Horde. I'd love for half-ogres (or quarter-ogres?) to be an orc subrace.

[Tthrack]

Part of the hate is the same reason that you seem to think the conqueror WOD orc chieftains were a negative portrayal, and they were.

The orcs, as the game explains their culture, is different from the way fans and devs seem to view their culture.

The wolf packs are a great metaphor for culture. They are inherently dictatorships. The adult mated pair leads, and the other offspring are subservient.

They have no moral qualms about feeding on the week of their prey. Why would the deer care if kill and eat the weakest of the herd? From the perspective of the wolf, they might even see it as benefiting the deer herd. Without having to take care of the weaker members, the herd has a better chance of survival.

Wolves are not inclusive animals; they generally do not accept others into the pack. Though cooperation between packs does happen (Hi Tauren!) they are extremely territorial and will, more often than not, attack and possibly kill competition.

Here's the point - none of that is evil, or negative, to a wolf. The orcs are not dissimilar, so why would they see it any differently?

Players are, and the writers for Blizzard are human. Orc behavior sounds evil to our culture (Probably, hopefully).

Slap some nukes (mana-bombs) in there, some quasi-slavery, (Pandarens) and some betrayal of those already accepted into the pack (Trolls) and, tada! Villian!

To make the bad-ass orc character the desire for Doomplate Thrall seems to signify, the writers need to walk a line that is far grayer and fuzzier than is generally acceptable in World of Warcraft Lore.
The lore is very Disney in its treatment of good/evil. Evil is evil and good is good. Not so much Game of Thrones or Witcher in accepting shades of gray.

Thrall can't come back at this point; the pack wouldn't take him. Of course, again, Blizzard lore is written by humans....

[Razaron]

I think Saurfang would make a great Warchief, with Baine and Eitrigg as his advisors.

Alternately, Rexxar as Warchief could mean the full integration of more ogre clans and the Mok'Nathal into the Horde. I'd love for half-ogres (or quarter-ogres?) to be an orc subrace.

Rexxar coming back to the main stage and leading the Horde, actually that's a really good idea. I do like that, but I'd still prefer Thrall to return and some new Orc characters.

[Sky High]

I think Saurfang would make a great Warchief, with Baine and Eitrigg as his advisors.

Alternately, Rexxar as Warchief could mean the full integration of more ogre clans and the Mok'Nathal into the Horde. I'd love for half-ogres (or quarter-ogres?) to be an orc subrace.

it totally goes against Rexxar's personality to become a leader. his entire shtick is being a loner out in the wilderness. not to say that Blizzard wouldn't throw all that out the window to make it happen, but he's a stretch.

[Zulkhan]

Look, I don't hate Thrall. I always held the character in decent regard and felt a lot of sympathy towards it. However, Thrall's days as Warchief are over. Over. He's not cut for the job. He knows it. That's why he put Garrosh in charge. That's why he didn't want to come back. That's why he chose to follow Vol'jin rather than accept Vol'jin's own offer to pick the mantle again. The guy is too much of an idealist and from Cataclysm on he indulged on a path that did nothing but further strengthen that aspect of him rather than weaken it. And overall, his story seems to be almost done. He'll surely have appearances but I doubt he'll ever have a main role. And becoming Warchief again would be a big enough development.

Thrall definitely expended his course in Warcraft and has really nothing more to offer apart repeating a storyline we already witnessed all over again.

No, Thrall is disgraced. His actions in SoO and beyond were petty and reprehensible, the elements abandoned him.

SoO? What he did in SoO?

I hope that somewhere in the world a son or daughter of Garrosh and Zeala is around and Thrall will die at his/her hand in the future.

Its the only thing atm Thrall is still good for, the revenge of the Hellscream family.

Garrosh pretty much dishonored his lineage before Thrall "dishonored" Garrosh by cheating (something something about throwing a literal family heirloom away for power something) so killing Thrall isn't going to avenge anything but Garrosh himself. And Garrosh did enough damage with his idiotic vendetta already. If anything Garrosh's death didn't redeem the Hellscream legacy but surely didn't throw further shit on it, regardless of how that death occurred.

You guys are all just a bunch of posing jump-on-the-bandwagon kind of haters. It's pathetic. Actually come up with a good argument on why he shouldn't return instead of just repeating eachother for the sake of it.

You surely didn't make a great job yourself in sustaining the contrary position.

[Razion]

As long as he grows his hair out. He had an issue before in Vanilla/Burning Crusade where he was criticized for letting his people die a lot, as only Jaina really supported the peace. If peace doesn't again become the "deus ex machina" device that destroys characters who side with their faction at the wrong time, classic-style Thrall would be very welcome.

[FreshKamel]

Even though I've hated him since Garrosh' death cinematic (Yeah, not since Cata) I'd like him to return. He was probably the most iconic WarCraft character.
So either bring him back and make him dope AF, or kill him. Don't let him vanish.

[RoKPaNda]

SoO? What he did in SoO?

He challenged Garrosh and Garrosh told Thrall that Thrall forgot what it meant to be an Orc and then Garry absolutely worked Thrall. Thrall then noped the fuck out of there, licked his wounds, and tried to sneak back in and steal the killing blow from the players. When Garrosh arrived on Draenor he was still pretty messed up from SoO. We fought him again briefly, and then he had his little duel with Thrall wherein Thrall got absolutely trucked again until he decided to cheat, which is why the elements don't respond to him anymore.

[Zulkhan]

He challenged Garrosh and Garrosh told Thrall that Thrall forgot what it meant to be an Orc and then Garry absolutely worked Thrall. Thrall then noped the fuck out of there, licked his wounds, and tried to sneak back in and steal the killing blow from the players. When Garrosh arrived on Draenor he was still pretty messed up from SoO. We fought him again briefly, and then he had his little duel with Thrall wherein Thrall got absolutely trucked again until he decided to cheat, which is why the elements don't respond to him anymore.

That's not why the elements don't respond to him. The elements couldn't give the slightest fuck about orcish traditions, fairness in duels and whatnot. Considered how the elements mostly care about the respect shown towards them, the actual reason is the lack of that respect shown by Thrall when he fried Garrosh. Rather than keep fighting he let Garrosh's teasing getting the best of him and acted guided by anger alone, abusing his pact with the elements to deliver a death execution way over the top. He even summoned a freaking hand of magma and most likely bordered Dark Shamanism in doing so. He clearly overstepped his bonds and the elements didn't forgive him for that.

[Razorice]

I think we should just kill-off any character from WC1-3, then hope Blizzard goes for a "time-jump" expansion and we get all new characters, all new roles, etc.

[RoKPaNda]

That's not why the elements don't respond to him. The elements couldn't give the slightest fuck about orcish traditions, fairness in duels and whatnot. Considered how the elements mostly care about the respect shown towards them, the actual reason is the lack of that respect shown by Thrall when he fried Garrosh. Rather than keep fighting he let Garrosh's teasing getting the best of him and acted guided by anger alone, abusing his pact with the elements to deliver a death execution way over the top. He even summoned a freaking hand of magma and most likely bordered Dark Shamanism in doing so. He clearly overstepped his bonds and the elements didn't forgive him for that.

That is no way differs from what I said. His using the elements to kill Garrosh is what made the elements stop responding to him. Using the elements to A) cheat and B) kill Garrosh is disrespecting the elements.

So yeah, we don't need cowardly Thrall back.

[Bas Prime]

I enjoyed Thrall since Warcraft 3. I think he is a good character, he has flaws, made mistakes and sacrifices himself for his loved ones and the greater good.
They did a good job in Legion, letting him lose the Doomhammer, having a Quest with him, seeing him wounded and beaten. I am sure we will get an explanation why the Doomhammer, or more specific the elements left him (at the moment it looks like the fight with Garrosh could play a role, but I am not entirely convinced), and I am very sure they will show how he searches for the answer, and solving this problem. He is(was) one of the strongest shamans, one of the more honorable characters, who would gladly sacrifice himself for Azeroth, he will get an explanation.
I would like to see him come back and teach a new wave of characters, maybe even becoming the leader of the Earthen Ring and train shamans. He should see his kids grow up, have a happy live with Aggra and become old and wise, being a adviser and seer for the orcs, like Drek'tar was.
If we should let some orcs die, it would be Eitrigg and Saurfang. Those two deserve a honorable orc warrior death in combat. Maybe Varok can visit the site where his brother became a legend, maybe his brother is still alive (not the first time blizz could bring someone we thought be dead back) and maybe he helps his niece to become a prominent character.
We lost Nazgrim as a great ingame character, sadly he did not see his error (or blizz did not want him to see it) because he would have been an awesome choice for a Warchief IF they would have changed his character a little at SoO.
Some WC3 charactes are still missing (Samuro, no he is not the singer of the band), Broxigars daughter, (I would not count Me'dan) and together with the Trolls we have an absolute emptyness in characters for those two races. Every race ingame could use some more second level characters to evolve story. Then there would not be a need for those known characters to rise again and again. The work could be devided on many shoulders.

PS. Thrall should start to use his real name. Its time. He will find his way back to shamanism, and have his moments in the story of World of Warcraft in the future. He is too awesome to just let him die or never use him again.

[Zulkhan]

That is no way differs from what I said. His using the elements to kill Garrosh is what made the elements stop responding to him. Using the elements to A) cheat and B) kill Garrosh is disrespecting the elements.

So yeah, we don't need cowardly Thrall back.

No, that's not what I said. Again, the elements couldn't give the slightest fuck about cheating or the fate of Garrosh. The reason for why he abused the elements is irrelevant. The act is all that matters to them. In regards of the vast majority of mortal affairs the elements hold a neutral and uncaring position but they're not going to forgive you if you mess with them to achieve a personal goal of yours. Hell, Thrall could have abused the elements for some morally just, rightful and noble reason and they would still be angry at him the same way.

But yes, we don't need Thrall back either way.

[Bas Prime]

Zaela could have become a tolerable Warchief had Blizzard not butchered her character in WoD. As for Thrall, he made his choice long ago.

I sadly have to agree. Questin in Twilight Highlands really gave me hope for a new wave of orc characters, namely Zaela, but like Nazgrim they moved away from what I expeted.
Would have been great though.
Its like going to Draenor and introducing Yrel and bringing back more characters from the orc race, namely Grom. They even let him be "redeemed" to not become a enemy, in the end he was our ally. I really thought that they would bring them back to Azeroth, because they could fill the void. Grom or Durotan could have become Warlords of their clans, but even making one of them Warchief of the orcs would have been an option (debatable how good or bad)
When they introduced Groms son, I was like, "oh they want to bring back some of Grom, to have another cool character" we all know how that played out. Really strange how they decide some of their lore. (to me)

- - - Updated - - -

No, that's not what I said. Again, the elements couldn't give the slightest fuck about cheating or the fate of Garrosh. The reason for why he abused the elements is irrelevant. The act is all that matters to them. In regards of the vast majority of mortal affairs the elements hold a neutral and uncaring position but they're not going to forgive you if you mess with them to achieve a personal goal of yours. Hell, Thrall could have abused the elements for some morally just, rightful and noble reason and they would still be angry at him the same way.

But yes, we don't need Thrall back either way.

Did Thrall not use his power to level the castle where he was hold captive as a gladiator, and where his human female friend was killed by Blackmoore? At least in the book I think he uses his powers to do that. Is there a difference? I would like to know your opinion on that (no sarcasm here, honest question)

[Prawnapple]

I'd love to know how Jaina could be a better Warchief then Thrall. Again, it's the mindless hate I just don't understand.

Jaina can do a nood poster for a calander, that's about all she's good for

[Zulkhan]

Did Thrall not use his power to level the castle where he was hold captive as a gladiator, and where his human female friend was killed by Blackmoore? At least in the book I think he uses his powers to do that. Is there a difference? I would like to know your opinion on that (no sarcasm here, honest question)

Well, back then Thrall was still fresh of Drek'thar's teachings so he must asked the elements assistance in achieving that. Against Garrosh though it looked like Thrall, in his fit of anger, overstepped his bonds and literally manipulated the elements to destroy Garrosh completely. While he was technically angry against Blackmoore as well, in Garrosh's case there's a lot of self-blame he clearly tried to bury deep beneath his confident exterior, feelings of guilt and perceived failure that Garrosh's words forced out of him. The young Thrall was angry but not arrogant, the Thrall of Nagrand definitely grew arrogant in his desperate attempt to repress the self-blame, guilt and flawed perception of himself in regards of Garrosh's failed guidance (and all the dire consequences that such failure brought upon everyone).