Neo Nazis losing jobs after being publicly outed

[Synros]

Don't more liberal countries have hate speech laws and would never allow a KKK/nazi rally to happen to begin with?

To a degree, yes. But "Hate Speech" laws are a very slippery slope. As Canada is experiencing now. These laws are being vaguely expanded to cover "discrimination", particularly "religious discrimination", particularly criticism of Islam. Though it's technically not a "law" (yet), any and all forms of criticism of Islam are already considered "Hate Speech". Have a problem with FGM? Well guess what, you're a bigot now. No religion should ever be immune to criticism, let alone one religion be placed above another. If I'm allowed to say "Fuck Christianity" but not "Fuck Islam", and people don't see a problem with that, then that's a massive problem. But that's the cause now, thanks to regressive Identity Politics.

[Kolvarg]

I'm agaisnt Nazis and fascism as much as the next guy, just like I'm agaisnt pretty much all kind of extremists, left, right or otherwise.

But is "shaming" them and getting them fired really a solution?

Not to mention it's a measure that's going to have an effect not only on the so called "nazis", but also on their families (which may very well not have anything to do with nazism or anything close).


I'm not saying I have a better solution, I'm just saying perhaps a different solution should be considered, because "nazi" or not, until you actually do something (or incite someone else to do something) you're not really doing anything wrong - it comes dangerously close to thought policing, and personally I don't want to live in a country/world where it's considered "ok" to have real life consequences for having immoral thoughts/ideas.

Not to mention I very much doubt even most people in the protest actually consider (let alone call themselves) neo-nazis.

Because I mean, I'm a left-inclined centrist, but let's be honest here, most of the prominent media (be it professional or social media) is heavily for the left and they haven't been particularly restricted when applying the "nazi" label in recent times, I'm not sure it even means much anymore.

[Wyrt]

Well, our neo-nazi's manage to behave enough to have their own demonstrations, at least. Of course, we don't have the same tradition of racism and whites vs. blacks as you do, but if they can manage, even the KKK ought to? Either way, it works for us, at any rate.

KKK was literally a terrorist organization 50 years ago. Probably many of the current members are older than that and might have even participated in it.

[Synros]

They're groups specifically dedicated to hate speech. Well, violence too if they can get away with it.

ANTIFA has already beat them to it. And thanks to favorable MSM coverage, they're able to get away with it too.

[Dhrizzle]

And it's a simple fact that Communists do as well. It's responsible for 10s of millions of deaths, and counting. Yet for some odd reason, I don't see many people calling for the same actions to be taken. Do you condemn Communism? Or are you one of those people who excuses the countless atrocities committed under Communism, because it wasn't "real" Communism?

The totalitarianism adopted by Stalin is not an intrinsic part of communism, it's possible to condemn the things that happened in Soviet Russia whilst still believing in a society of common ownership and equality.

On the other hand the racism and anti-Semitism of Nazism is an intrisic part of the ideology, when you defend or support Nazis or neo-Nazis you are defending or supporting those views.

[Synros]

The totalitarianism adopted by Stalin is not an intrinsic part of communism, it's possible to condemn the things that happened in Soviet Russia whilst still believing in a society of common ownership and equality.

On the other hand the racism and anti-Semitism of Nazism is an intrisic part of the ideology, when you defend or support Nazis or neo-Nazis you are defending or supporting those views.

Thanks for proving my point. You're excusing the horrible things done under Communism, because it wasn't "real" Communism... Every. Single. Time.

[Aleksej89]

To some extent yes. One must lead by example, to be the better person, to exemplarize the ideals one wants to stand for. You will attract more flies with honey than with vinegar, as they say, a person is much more likely to hear you out and even take in what you say if you're giving them an informed, respectful and open discussion. Which is what we must strive to maintain.
But I would say that an opinion that is vehemently anti-democratic, violent and hateful which might actually want to damage, impede or remove democracy actually goes against such values and doesn't deserve representation. But one shouldn't stoop to their level either.

Where did you get those draenei pictures?
They are very... distracting...

The whole concept of democracy is "the will of the people".
Or better said, the majority of the people that participate in a vote of some sorts.

If violent and hateful people are in the voting majority - then the democratic will of the people is to behave in such a manner.
To silence any opinion, no matter how rare or potentially dangerous, is by its very nature anti-democratic.

A beautiful quote from Star Trek (The Drumhead episode):
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied – chains us all, irrevocably."

[Wyrt]

Where did you get those draenei pictures?
They are very... distracting...

The whole concept of democracy is "the will of the people".
Or better said, the majority of the people that participate in a vote of some sorts.

If violent and hateful people are in the voting majority - then the democratic will of the people is to behave in such a manner.
To silence any opinion, no matter how rare or potentially dangerous, is by its very nature anti-democratic.

A beautiful quote from Star Trek (The Drumhead episode):
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied – chains us all, irrevocably."

Well, as the Trump voters like to keep reminding people, America isn't a democracy.

[Flarelaine]

Ah, so you brutalized, tortured, jailed, and executed people for wrongthink.

Would be so nice if people knew what they're talking about. The Netherlands were under Nazi occupation for years; afterwards, they sanctioned the collaborators not for "wrongthink", but for - surprise! - collaborating with the invaders. I haven't heard about torture, so nice projection there.

[Isadora]

And it's a simple fact that Communists do as well. It's responsible for 10s of millions of deaths, and counting. Yet for some odd reason, I don't see many people calling for the same actions to be taken. Do you condemn Communism? Or are you one of those people who excuses the countless atrocities committed under Communism, because it wasn't "real" Communism?

I have never seen a communist rally, let alone one that would amount to somebody getting killed by one of those communist sympathants. And yes, I would condemn it in the very same way, if some freaks would go around shouting "Hail Stalin" or some such nonsense.

But just because: the issue isn't communism here. And the issue isn't unfair treatment of one group versus another. Whether there's another group that is also bad is irrelevant. Nazis are bad, no matter what other group out there might also do bad things. There's no place for genocidal bigotry in the 21st century. I fail to see why my assessment of communism should matter for that.

[Dhrizzle]

Thanks for proving my point. You're excusing the horrible things done under Communism, because it wasn't "real" Communism... Every. Single. Time.

Maybe you should look up the words "condemn" and "excuse" as they mean totally different things, if you're lucky someone might have made an emoji-style cartoon so you can digest it easier (hopefully one more relevant than the one you linked.)

Here's the thing, if people are pointing out the fact that Stalinism isn't the only form of communism Every. Single. Time. You bring the subject up maybe you should consider the possibility that they're correct. Try to find sources of information where the text takes up more space than the pictures.

[Maybach]

I love the way that every single person on that march yesterday is now a neo nazi or a white supremacist or just an out and out racist

There were others in that march that simply objected to a statue being removed

I take it that the people labelling everyone in that march knew them all personally and can attest to their political views?

It is also interesting to note that the counter demonstration seemed hell bent on denying anyone who disagreed with them the right to free speech

We now see this witch hunt extended to peoples employment

Hypocritical considering there were plenty of examples of counter demonstrators also using unprovoked violence on others, including the use of pepper spray and holding up pre printed signs "punch your local nazi"

Wheres the condemnation of that in the media?

Both sides in this disgusting dispute are equally as bad as each other

They are just too stupid to see it

[Isadora]

Both sides in this disgusting dispute are equally as bad as each other

They are just too stupid to see it

How the fuck is the side that had one of their own kill one of the other group not the worse side in this one? How? They literally killed someone, how much more do you have to do to be the bad one?

[Wyrt]

I love the way that every single person on that march yesterday is now a neo nazi or a white supremacist or just an out and out racist

There were others in that march that simply objected to a statue being removed

I take it that the people labelling everyone in that march knew them all personally and can attest to their political views?

It is also interesting to note that the counter demonstration seemed hell bent on denying anyone who disagreed with them the right to free speech

We now see this witch hunt extended to peoples employment

Hypocritical considering there were plenty of examples of counter demonstrators also using unprovoked violence on others, including the use of pepper spray and holding up pre printed signs "punch your local nazi"

Wheres the condemnation of that in the media?

Both sides in this disgusting dispute are equally as bad as each other

They are just too stupid to see it

No one believes this had anything to do with the fucking statue. You can stop pretending.

[Maybach]

How the fuck is the side that had one of their own kill one of the other group not the worse side in this one? How? They literally killed someone, how much more do you have to do to be the bad one?

So one side is less bad than the other?

Or one side is better than the other as they didn't kill anyone?

Nice logic

Step back, look at what both sides got up to and it all stinks

Both sides should be hanging their heads in shame

- - - Updated - - -

No one believes this had anything to do with the fucking statue. You can stop pretending.

For most that were there on both sides, I agree with you, far left or far right, what happened yesterday was nothing to do with the statue

it was a bunch of dumbass people on both sides of the political spectrum acting out in the most atrocious way possible

Just proves the point that both political extremes, left or right, are equally dangerous

[Isadora]

So one side is less bad than the other?

Or one side is better than the other as they didn't kill anyone?

Nice logic

Step back, look at what both sides got up to and it all stinks

Both sides should be hanging their heads in shame

Explain to me how it's equal sides when one side randomly killed a women of the other side with a car.

[Machismo]

You know it's not rational. Such smart. Wow.

Back on topic, I couldn't give a rat's dick about white supremacists. There are more fundamental rights at stake here than some shitty ass BLM or anti-nazis - like the basis of democracy, sharing and debating opinions.

Sharing and debating opinions is exactly what is going on in all of this. This is the perfect exercise of freedom of speech. Those people's opinions are being shared, it just happens to be that they do not want them shared with their employers.

[niil945]

1. You don't seem to uderstand where the phrase shouting fire in a crowded theater originates, and in what context it was used. You might want to look it up.

2. There is no such thing as hate speech laws in the USA. Try again. Hate speech is not tantamount to call to action. You can say A is superior to B. Or B is inferior to C and the law cannot touch you for it.

3. You're missing my point by deflecting, so I will reiterate for you: Why is it ok to fire someone over their personal beliefs, but not okay to fire someone else over theirs?

4. I agree with your conclusion. There are social repercussions. But that is a double edged sword, and you can be sure it will cut both ways. Remember Newton's 3rd law of motion? For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. If the left does it to the right, the right will do it to the left in response.

1. I'm aware. Not relevant aside from demonstrating that all speech isn't just considered speech, which is why I pointed it out in the first place.
2. Sure you can. Not all hate speech is just hate speech, as demonstrated by point 1.
3. You're asking for a value judgement here regarding a specific question that I never actually disagreed with you on. I was just pointing out that referencing the first amendment as a justification for why people shouldn't be fired demonstrates a level of either ignorance or intentional misrepresentation of what the first amendment actually does. You clearly seem to be at least mildly educated on why some speech isn't just considered speech so that means you're intentionally misrepresenting the first amendment. Why lie about what the 1st does?
4. "It's entirely legal but don't do it! You don't want the right to do it too!" That's not exactly an argument I find compelling. Why would I care if people on the left were held accountable for their actions? Except, and here's the kicker, simply showing up to protest a white nationalist rally isn't something that people are actually going to care about in the slightest. Want to hold Antifa accountable for some of the idiotic things they do? Be my guest!

[Anevers]

So one side is less bad than the other?

Yes. One has a history of murder and terror stretching back over a hundred years. Both are capable and have done bad things, but lets not compare a mountain to a mole hill and say they are equally as bad.

Just proves the point that both political extremes, left or right, are equally dangerous

Which side decided to get in a car and mow down more than a dozen people leaving one dead?

[Shibito]

Its a slippery slope it will end up with firing people you dont agree with which is wrong. What will you say when blm members lose their jobs?