Skittish is a terribly designed affix for Havoc

[Cazz17]

If you're a 930 player with 900 tanks, you'll get aggro. Play with appropriate people that have some sense of how to play.

[dirtybrew]

Eh i can hold aqgro from havocs on my 935 brm monk just fine on skittish. Helps that I actually know how to do damage and have bis dps leggos

[VooDsXo]

This doesn't do anything, if you're tabbing to targets you haven't even touched and if the tank is spending GCDs on AoE abilities to hold threat on everything and isn't running a CD to hold ST threat, this doesn't do anything except tell you when to stop to avoid pulling threat, which isn't fixing the problem.



No it doesn't.



That doesn't drop threat, because as soon as you break the stealth you have 100% of your previous threat. I'm also Horde.



5 seconds, then you die or run away. Success?

To elaborate why you generally don't want to do this: constantly stunning for defensive measure is usually best served for saving the tank in high M+, because ideally you use it to interrupt certain abilities that will 1-shot a teammate or the entire group (short of having other CC that can do the job better, this is especially ideal in cases where multiple targets are using Really Bad Shit (TM)). For this reason it's not ideal to stun on CD or whenever you want (except when the mobs are going to die or aren't threatening to generate fragments). This is also risky on a lot of trash because it causes them to sync abilities, either leap effects that will combo and 1-shot people, or large hits to the tank which will instantly kill your tank (normally they're staggered on the pull).



This is a 20% chance to mitigate a single hit, it also does nothing for threat.



You don't understand at all how any of the above mentioned things work and you're telling me, the current US #1 Havoc DH in M+ that I'm playing with bad tanks? Nice.



I am running Demonic, and that's just as bad as CB, but worse, because on trash you get repeated Demonic windows which is some AoE followed by huge ST burst. And there aren't better tanks.



Apparently you either haven't ever played with a geared DH or you're playing with people who can't sustain 1.6+ million in a M+. Tanks doing max burst AoE with DPS gear don't cover the issue, anything short of an Incarn bear doing more DPS than any of the DPS loses threat to Anni crits even after waiting for threat.

I swear people don't even read the thread.

Honestly, you have 0 understanding of almost anything or you're literally trolling...right off the bat the entire POINT OF SKITTISH IS TO MAKE IT SO YOU HAVE TO MANAGE YOUR THREAT. Simply put after that nothing is relevant, because a properly geared tank will is still capable of holding aggro, as the AFFIX is also to make them try harder at holding aggro...seriously just stop and think wtf the affixes actually are...also oddly enough, you've never once backed your claims of being good up on any forum but you seem to bitch and complain about a lot of things including how mythic+ is ruined, mythic raiding is ruined, and fire is ruined, and basically you're a hypochondriac about specs being changed more similar to someone who has trouble adjusting quickly. Also, you consistently just repost math you've either a cherry picked from someones post or literally copy pasted from patch notes and don't seem to 100% grasp what they mean.


Literally your entire post revolves around not being the absolute most optimal spec or class for a single affix, if you are the "top" havoc DH in the world for M+ it makes more sense why less and less people care because its a joke to begin with...

[Deleted]

tbh i have no idea about Tanks, but i wanted to give him a little credit... so:
If you look at the Top Ranks on Goroth, a pure Single Target fight (i know, a great fight to compare AOE Damage), and just look at the 40 sec Burst during BL you get:
Brewmaster 802.897
Blood Deathknight 1.042.533
Warrior 1.091.736
Paladin 999.530
and finally Bear 1.100.424
The one thing about this... the damn Bear is just spamming Trash (an AOE Ability) in Incarnation and he is SINGLE TARGET King. All the other Tanks don't use their AOE Abilities on Single Target, or if they do, they don't account for 60% of their Damage. If you can show me, that all the other Tanks can Top about 1m DPS on EVERY TARGET in Range, yeah he is saying bullshit, else a Bear with Incarnation should be able to hold aggro

[Deleted]

Get a decent tank, use your stuns, use blur, netherwalk.

[HeiAggra]

I think this is probably the worst affix design wise currently in the game. There's no "playing around it" as a Havoc DH, it literally just requires you to do nothing for a long time on trash pulls. You need some form of misdirect currently to avoid pulling threat, which isn't a problem for most other classes in the game. The closest equivalent to us is a rogue which has threat reduction and tricks so never has an issue with this affix.

Havoc wasn't around when threat was relevant, which is why I suspect it has no answer for this.

Blizzard either needs to give Havoc some form of threat management like rogues have or drastically reduce the threat that CS/Annihilation generate. Here's how a typical pull of 4-5 mobs goes in a Skittish dungeon:

1. Wait about 10 seconds to engage.
2. Pop FOTI, glaives, EB, Death Sweep, then fel rush x2 if there are enough targets (or save to save your life when you pull threat)
3. Tab target Annihilation spam because more than 1 on a single target instantly rips threat
4. Anxiously pop Blur, instead of saving it for relevant mechanics
5. Get a few good high crits, pull threat on 2-3 targets, get instantly 1-shot on 20+ keys, or take a hit and run away
6. Return to the pack, start hitting the next target and hope you don't rip threat on that one

It's stupid. It's not "bad tank" either. 935+ geared tanks, even bears short of popping incarn all lose threat to a well geared Havoc. It's not as much of an issue on bosses, but I definitely can't even pug or help with low keys because doing 2+ million DPS to a single target (and 1+ to all other targets) generally rips threat on anyone but a very competent tank. And "low geared" tanks at 910 if they miss even a couple of GCDs on bosses, I pull those too.

Blizzard design in 2017, perhaps the biggest meme of them all. At least this means we can reliably Havoc tank on easy content.

If you have the head leg go demonic you will be fine.

[Backlashe]

You're doing skittish affix with bad tanks if you have to make a post about threat management. I went into a 15 last night, was wrecking damage on trash and the tank had no issues holding threat.

A good tank is severely underrated.

[MookieRah]

Vengeance can beat that, Vengeance is the true king here.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...done&source=10

[BiggestNoob]

If you are such a good player just cope with it and stop complaining. You sure are irritating

That's a great solution, it definitely solves the problem. Shit design, game is broken, "just cope." That's my new slogan, I'm running for President.

If you think Incarnation burst on a guardian is anything special, especially compared to prot paladin burst aoe, then you just demonstrated you have no idea what you're talking about.

Funnily, I've watched the best paladins in the game and their burst is nowhere close to what a bear can do.

And yes, a brewmaster or VDH will end nearly any big pull with about the same damage done as a druid who pops it without needing to use any CDs. brewmaster especially literally doesn't have offensive CDs and is doing their max AoE potential on EVERY PULL(which is a lot btw).

This is factually false.

Want to talk about a meme? How about the fact you're not proving anything and just claiming you're better then every other player people play with? Hate to break it to you, but you're not. Your tank knowledge shows you have no clue what you're talking about in regards to them and should probably start blaming them instead of the game.

You haven't ever played with a decent Havoc DH and you're in here telling me the highest AoE burst in the game is something every other tank does every pull (hint: not even remotely close) and that Havoc doesn't pull threat? Fuck off, buddy. Come back when you don't suck at this game.

If you're having trouble with skittish post nerf to it your tanks are bad. It's now as simple as count to 3 and do your normal dps. Any competent tank should be doing 75% or more of what a dps is doing on an average AoE pull without even thinking about it, let alone if they actually plan and spec/gear around it.

Wrong.

Since you only want to talk about Gaurdians let me guess you're playing with a bunch of FOTM guardian rerollers from last patch who are slacking raid tanks that struggle to maintain 500k dps on a raid boss. Or gasp, maybe your alt or main is actually a FOTM guardian reroll yourself that you don't know how to maximize damage on.

Nope, keep making assumptions though.

If you're a 930 player with 900 tanks, you'll get aggro. Play with appropriate people that have some sense of how to play.

I don't do this.

Eh i can hold aqgro from havocs on my 935 brm monk just fine on skittish. Helps that I actually know how to do damage and have bis dps leggos

You're welcome to do a M+ with me on the next Skittish week and we'll test that theory.

Honestly, you have 0 understanding of almost anything or you're literally trolling...right off the bat the entire POINT OF SKITTISH IS TO MAKE IT SO YOU HAVE TO MANAGE YOUR THREAT.

Explain why most classes don't have to do anything different with Skittish. Clearly if that was the goal, it fails spectacularly unless you have no threat reduction at all, in which case you're just expected to do half of everyone else's DPS because "reasons" ?????

You're a real smaht guy you know.

Simply put after that nothing is relevant, because a properly geared tank will is still capable of holding aggro, as the AFFIX is also to make them try harder at holding aggro...seriously just stop and think wtf the affixes actually are...also oddly enough, you've never once backed your claims of being good up on any forum but you seem to bitch and complain about a lot of things including how mythic+ is ruined, mythic raiding is ruined, and fire is ruined, and basically you're a hypochondriac about specs being changed more similar to someone who has trouble adjusting quickly.

You're still sitting there claiming I'm wrong without providing any evidence.

1. Everyone who does high M+ keys agrees that M+ now without depleted keys is far inferior to what it was. It is ruined.
2. Mythic raiding is absolute shit with this design in Legion. This is largely agreed upon.
3. Fire was the worst spec in the fucking game and yet I was wrong?

You also need to hit a dictionary real fast to look up words before you use them.

Also, you consistently just repost math you've either a cherry picked from someones post or literally copy pasted from patch notes and don't seem to 100% grasp what they mean.

It was trivial math. Are you incapable of grasping 6th grade math? Please feel free to find that math somewhere else, show me where I "copy pasted" it. I'll be waiting. Every guide at the time said 8+ targets, while every good Fire mage was using it on 4, and I did the math to show exactly where it's better so idiots like you who make arguments with no evidence AT ALL would shut the fuck up and go sit down.

Here's a video for you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvTRZJ-4EyI

Literally your entire post revolves around not being the absolute most optimal spec or class for a single affix, if you are the "top" havoc DH in the world for M+ it makes more sense why less and less people care because its a joke to begin with...

No, it's about being incapable of using abilities at all because the game's design is bad. Havoc is actually fine in M+, most people are just unbelievably shit at it, which is why nobody brings them. This affix is just broken for the spec, and we don't have another spec to play as DPS. Other classes either don't generate as much threat or have tools to mitigate it. It's bad design through and through.

Get a decent tank, use your stuns, use blur, netherwalk.

Thanks for letting us know what doing a +10 is like.

If you have the head leg go demonic you will be fine.

False.

You're doing skittish affix with bad tanks if you have to make a post about threat management. I went into a 15 last night, was wrecking damage on trash and the tank had no issues holding threat.

A good tank is severely underrated.

You're bad at DPS.

Vengeance can beat that, Vengeance is the true king here.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...done&source=10

Show me sustained CD-level high threat generation on every trash pull in a dungeon, which is what's being discussed here, because it doesn't exist. And we're talking about AoE, not sustained ST. Looking at that log, even with every CD his Immo + SB + SoF damage wouldn't have actually held threat against me on an off target, and on bolstering you're not going to just all focus 1 target down at a time unless it can't be bolstered or it's too dangerous to let live (archers in BRH, for example).

[DesMephisto]

One odyns fury with battlecry will rip threat 30 seconds into the fight.

[BiggestNoob]

One odyns fury with battlecry will rip threat 30 seconds into the fight.

Didn't this use to be way worse for warriors? I remember seeing a video where a guy would rip threat just from autoattacking (though that seemed like a bug).

/sad

[MookieRah]

@Plastkin
I responded to single target tank dps, specifically burst window single target, and provided a log that beat the 40 second numbers on a minute and 40 second encounter and you respond with that? My response WAS about single target, even if aoe is the topic of discussion.

Also the opening burst of vengeance is ridiculous. Infernal strike + flame sigil + immo aura + sb will pretty much make skittish a joke for 95% of the player base. If you are having trouble pulling threat off of that then you just need to let the tank have a few seconds before you drop your aoe, because you shouldn't be angry when the whole point of the affix is to take threat into consideration. They have affixes in m+ so that it offers variance and challenge, learn to adapt. If something doesn't work on a particular affix, change your strategy, play with your spec, etc. There are several affixes that emphasizes different things for different specs.

EDIT:
This came off a bit harsher than I wanted it to, and I responded from my phone. More or less, the problem has less to do with Havoc and more to do with the relationship between you and the tank. If it is a tank you know, you should have a feeling for what they can handle. If it is a pug, you should probably go light and then work towards pushing your dps slowly. I really can't see this being a big problem in most cases if you let your tank have a couple of seconds of threat generation before you leap into things, especially if it is a Vengeance tank that can push out 2 million+ dps of AoE burst from their opener.

[Deleted]

Sure, what OP claims seems a bit exagerated or maybe even bugged, but I don't think you people realize just how hard havoc hits during burst windows. If you get a few crits back to back on the same target and that target isn't the main target of the tank, you have 99% chances to pull aggro, no matter how high the tank is bursting. However...this only happens to me with pug tanks, never happened with guild tanks.

On the other side tho, when I'm tanking (which is my main spec), no matter if on DH or pally, I rarely lose aggro even on huge packs, as long as they are somewhat clamped together and I can hit them all. Like, on vengeance at least, it's stupid easy to stabilize threat even if you fuck up. And I don't think I ever lost aggro to a havoc tbh, even if he went ham from the 1st second.

So to me this sounds like a tanking issue more than anything OR there's the slim chance that maybe your character is bugged in some way, maybe some item interactions or spell interactions with others from the group.
Playing druid wrong is easier than playing it perfectly, but because the spec is so stupidly easy most people don't really think about a tanking issue when they see a druid. And because the spec is so stupidly easy, it can actually just faceroll up until like +18 if the rest of the group is at least decent. In conclusion, if you have a tank that can do high keys, it doesn't automatically mean you have a good tank.

And if all you can say is "I'm better than y'all" without any actual proof, I'm fairly sure quite a few things you are claiming aren't true. Why don't you upload a video of a dungeon run where you encountered this issue the most?

[Deleted]

Why are Havocs discussing a tank affix? Literally makes no sense.
Get a proper tank that does 1m dps and you will not notice this affix. All tank classes can do this if played right.

edit: alternatively if your tank is bad, fill one of the other 2 DPS spots with a misdirect class.

[Temp name]

edit: alternatively if your tank is bad, fill one of the other 2 DPS spots with a misdirect class.

This. Get a hunter/rogue and you'll never notice Skittish again.

[Najja]

I do think the concept of Skittish is pretty rubbish for an affix. The whole idea of M+ was to do them as fast as you can, and Skittish is basically "You have no choice but to slow down." Not find a way to play better, or work around the affix. Just straight up do less damage, at least as a DH since we lack any sort of threat management spell.

[Bhorin]

This thread is hilarious. We have this guy who has done 20+ in almost every dungeon (mostly on time too) getting told to "find better tanks" by people who probably haven't done a single +20.

Keep on keeping on.

[Tradu]

And then there are rogues, warriors, warlocks, balance druids, and mages who don't have any issues any week. But apparently affixes literally being broken for certain specs is good design.

You're a funny guy. Warriors have just as many problems as Havoc with skittish, if not more.

- - - Updated - - -

This. Get a hunter/rogue and you'll never notice Skittish again.

If only that was actually true.

[razisgosu]

If you are such a good player just cope with it and stop complaining. You sure are irritating

Agreed. For a guy who seems to think he's such hot stuff, he can't handle a simple affix such as skittish.

[MookieRah]

@Bhorin
As far as I have heard Tech hasn't backed any of his claims, really. Also, you can do 20+ m+ and still fail to adapt properly. This is also the first I have seen of people complaining at this affix, so it is more than likely a very reactionary post that came from the result of a few bad dungeons, otherwise I'm pretty sure we would have all witnessed more threads about the issue.

The affix requires coordination from the tank and dps. Yes, it slows you down. Yes, that is part of the challenge of the affix. Yes, it probably sucks more for Havoc than most other specs as well. That doesn't change the fact that you can still play around it. I think people wouldn't be slamming the op if the thread was about analysis more than it was complaining about a problem.