Anti-antifa = fa

[Deleted]

communism will take over and fix the mistakes of greedy individualists

Yeah, it has a great track record of that.

[nycnyc88]

A great post on this topic
http://streetwiseprofessor.com/

The battle over the monuments is not really about the monuments. It’s not even really about the legacy of the Civil War. It is about the left’s vision of what America was, is, and will be. Here’s the most important thing to remember. The hard-core left that is the driving force behind extirpating the icons of the Confederacy does not see it, or the Old South, as an exception, a deviation from an otherwise laudable and righteous history: they see it as just one manifestation of the fundamental evil of America, evil that is writ on every page of history from 1607 on down. In this worldview, the United States has been, from even before its formal beginning, characterized by racism, sexism, and oppressive capitalism. It is not something that is basically good, but which has fallen short of achieving its lofty ideals: it is something that is fundamentally rotten, and which must be transformed by any means necessary.

It should not be surprising how the left conducts its march through institutions. It is really rather brilliant in conception and execution, although malign in effect and intent. There is a long term objective–in this case, the transformation of the US. But there is a coherent operational plan that concentrates force on a specific objective, and once that objective is taken, moves on to the next one.

Right now the ostensible target is the legacy of the Confederacy, but once the battle of the Confederate monuments is won, they will move on to the next target, which will inevitably include sooner or later every person in the American political pantheon, and every political, social, and economic institution that reflects the American past and tradition.

The left also masterfully personalizes the conflict, and ruthlessly presents the false choice between being on the side of the angels, or the side of the devils. In the current case, Nazis and white supremacists have been made the face of the anti-left. And now the left–with the assistance of many useful idiots, to whom I will turn in a moment–presents the false choice: if you are anti-left, well, that means that you are a Nazi or a fellow traveler thereof.

This is what’s happening here, and it’s as plain as day. Today it’s Robert E. Lee. Tomorrow it will be Lincoln and Washington and the Constitution and the Founding. The ultimate objective is the delegitimization of the American creed.

What is particularly sickening about this is that the most militant–and violent–of the leftists are being sanitized, and indeed lionized, because of their alleged anti-racist cred: anti-racism has become a license for vandalism and violence.

This is unbelievably stupid, and unbelievably dangerous. Antifa and the like are just the mirror image of the most retrograde white supremacists. Black bandanas=White hoods. Hammer and Sickle (which is displayed prominently at many Antifa and leftist actions)=Swastika. Both are anti-American. Both are anti-liberty. Both are committed to use violence in order to achieve their maximalist objectives. Nazis on the one side, Bolsheviks on the other. And it’s not as if either is hiding it: their regalia and flags advertise it.

And crucially, both are the twisted spawn of identity politics, the bane of modern society. Both define everything in crude terms of race and ethnicity and religion. Both are collectivists–a point too often overlooked, even though it is of decisive importance. Both reject the Western individualist revolution that began with Christianity and then humanism, and advanced through the Reformation and the enlightenment. To them, you are defined by your race, religion, ethnicity and class. The only difference between them is the perfect negative correlation between which race, religion, ethnicity, and class they demonize, and which they deify.

And, of course, this creates a sick symbiosis: neither can really exist without the other, and the rise of one contributes to the rise of the other.

Further, both are totalitarian and absolutist, and this is what leads to such virulent attacks on a past which does not conform with their absolutist vision. The iconoclasm we see now almost daily is redolent of other absolutist movements in the past, be it the Year One insanity of the French Revolution or the shrieking violence of the Cultural Revolution in China.

Both must be condemned. More than that, both must be opposed forcefully by duly constituted civil authority whenever they act out their violent ideologies.

But saying this is apparently beyond the pale in current American discourse, which just shows how degraded that discourse has become. Antifa–again, an avowedly communist, anti-liberty, anti-American movement–is not just not criticized, it is defended, because its self-proclaimed anti-racism (which in fact includes a healthy dose of anti-white racism) absolves it from any taint. Trump’s calling out of Antifa as well as Nazis has led supposedly conservative establishment figures like Mitt Romney, Lindsey Graham, Marco Rubio, and Charles Krauthammer to differentiate the indistinguishable, and to defend Antifa because of their opposition to Nazis and racists.

What Romney et al don’t get is who the hard-core left identifies as racists: it’s pretty much everybody who doesn’t agree with them in totality. It includes most whites (which is ironic, given the pastiness of most of the cheekbones and foreheads visible between black hats and masks). I guarantee it includes Mitt Romney, Lindsey Graham, Marco Rubio, and Charles Krauthammer. By vouching for them now, and validating their claim of authority in establishing who is and who is not a racist, Romney et al are putting a target on a lot of people who are by no stretch of the imagination white supremacists or Nazis.

But of course the left has always benefitted from useful idiots. Romney et al are playing that role to perfection.

History will not be the only casualty. Free speech will be as well. Free speech has already largely died on college campuses, which are merely the laboratory and hot house of leftism. Coming soon to, well, pretty much everyplace you might consider speaking your mind.

This too illustrates the devolution of American civil society. White supremacism and even Nazism are not new to American life, of course. In a way, what is amazing now is how marginalized these things are today. In the 1920s, the KKK was a major political force throughout the US–not just the South. (Indiana was a Klan hotbed.) In February, 1939–almost 6 years after Roosevelt’s inauguration and 6 months before German tanks rolled into Poland–the American Bund (basically the American Nazi Party) held a rally in Madison Square Garden attended by an estimated 22,000. Yet Eleanor Roosevelt, an extremely liberal political figure whose husband was savaged by the Bund, defended its right to exist, organize, and speak: she also defended America Firsters, Father Coughlin, and others with whom she disagreed violently on basically every political and social issue.

But if she did that today, she would be savaged. Because the left has gone from being believers in and defenders of civil liberties and individual freedom to their avowed enemies. The American liberal tradition, rooted in the enlightenment and classical liberal values, is being eclipsed, and replaced on the left by an alien political mindset. A mindset, ironically, that also spawned the fascist and Nazi movements in Europe as well as the leftist movements they battled in the streets: to understand the symbiosis between left and right in Europe in the 1920s and 1930s, read Paul Johnson’s Modern Times. It is that intellectual tradition (rooted in Germany) that gave rise to the tragedy of Weimar, and it is that intellectual tradition that has the United States slouching towards its own Weimarization today.

Both far left and far right are collectivist and anti-rational, and hence at odds with the American political tradition which was individualist and rooted in the rationalism of the enlightenment. That is why Robert E. Lee might be the first historical casualty, but he will not be the last. All of American history is in the dock, and staring at the gallows.

[Gamer8585]

Antifa's stated goal is to oppose fascism. Do some members cross the line? Yeah, probably since their angry young men with a righteous cause. Someone is always going to get caught up in the moment and go too far. But insofar as their founding ideology, its a generally noble civil service. Although those that attempt vigilante justice should be thrown in jail.

Lets look at the otherside:
Founding Ideologies in the works of Adolf Hitler and Benito Mussolini: Totalitarianism, Personality cult, Dictatorship, Militarism, Anti-parliamentarianism, Anti-Democratic thought, Imperialism, Racial Segregation.

Oh, and some members are waving CSA Battle Flags. That is a direct symbol of treason to the United States of America.

Now what dose US law say about treason...oh good its right here in the Constitution:

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort

I think displaying symbols of an organized and armed insurrection counts as adhering to enemies.

So, lets see we can either side with an alliance between Totalitarian-Racists and Traitors, or those that strictly and emphatically oppose them.

I gotta throw my hat in with Antifa in this case. They're just doing the same job our great-great-great grandparents did in 1860s and our grandparents did in the 40s, only without shooting.

[Machismo]

You just pointed out the quote, i mean if you cant read, thats your problem i guess. Did you also read all the other trump hating bs hes spewed on this thread and others? you might want to watch who you throw your lot in with, hes a lost cause.

He said:

"These neo nazi nobody just got a POTUS elected.

If you think Nazi's just started while in power, then you don't know dick about history."

That is not the same as him being their leader, Trump being the next Hitler, or Trump literally being Hitler.

You Godwinned yourself, and it's fucking pathetic.

I'm not throwing my lot in with him, I don't even like the other poster. I'm just going to point out the ridiculousness of people who do shit like you do, then whine when others do the exact same thing. You remind me of soccer players who fake injuries, and overact on everything.

[keyblade01]

try reading wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifa_(United_States)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_supremacy

fascism is an ideology, antifa are against the fascist ideology. this is just nazi sympathising because white supremacists are getting fought back against and dont like it.

i knew fuck all about antifa yesterday, had to wikipedia it to figure out what their ideology is. yea, it's about fighting nazi's and inequality. they are essentially a militant guerilla group who want to fight nazis. of course the white supremacists are gonna be mad about it, people are standing up to them.

not everybody at one of these rallies is antifa, there's plenty of people who turn out to protest against fucking NAZISM. which we should all be doing. there was a massive world war about fighting nazis.

there's also a massive misdirection happening, labelling all "lefties" that protest against fascism as antifa. when everybody should be protesting against fascism. it's not about being "a leftie" it's about stopping fucking nazis.

The mass majority of people they assault and harass are not Nazis. They just scream "NAZI!" at you right before they start throwing punches. So many innocents have been attacked by ANTIFA, most of them are just normal Trump supporters. They absolutely are fascist, they just attack anyone they disagree with, and call them "Nazis" to shut down debate, and fuel their zealous violence. So many minority Trump supporters are afraid to show their support or wear a MAGA hat, beacause they are afraid of being attacked by "anti-fascists". As a gay man, I can honestly say it was easier to come out of the closet, then it was to come out as a Trump supporter. Hate, paranoia, and insults is the majority of responses I get.

[Phlegethon]

Anyone that attended school knows that -x minus -x is x

So you are saying: -x-(-x) = x?
Does not seem you went to school after all...

[FlatBootyJudy]

Anyone that attended school knows that -x minus -x is x

People wouldn't listen. They said things like lolol there are no nazis you're a dangerous paranoid !!1

And now there are supremacists marching in the streets with torches nazis flags, running through crowds with their cars



I want to respect opinions but at this point if you still oppose anti fascists for preventing nazi oppression guess what maybe you're directly collaborating with these wannabe SS idiots.

Capitalism has gone way too far and the age of moderates is over deal with it

Remember ussr was merely an early draft, once capitalism inevitably destroys itself, communism will take over and fix the mistakes of greedy individualists

I agree, I would condemn radicals on both sides!

[keyblade01]

Antifa's stated goal is to oppose fascism. Do some members cross the line? Yeah, probably since their angry young men with a righteous cause. Someone is always going to get caught up in the moment and go too far. But insofar as their founding ideology, its a generally noble civil service. Although those that attempt vigilante justice should be thrown in jail.

Lets look at the otherside:
Founding Ideologies in the works of Adolf Hitler and Benito Mussolini: Totalitarianism, Personality cult, Dictatorship, Militarism, Anti-parliamentarianism, Anti-Democratic thought, Imperialism, Racial Segregation.

Oh, and some members are waving CSA Battle Flags. That is a direct symbol of treason to the United States of America.

Now what dose US law say about treason...oh good its right here in the Constitution:

I think displaying symbols of an organized and armed insurrection counts as adhering to enemies.

So, lets see we can either side with an alliance between Totalitarian-Racists and Traitors, or those that strictly and emphatically oppose them.

I gotta throw my hat in with Antifa in this case. They're just doing the same job our great-great-great grandparents did in 1860s and our grandparents did in the 40s, only without shooting.

Assaulting people you don't agree with is not a "noble service". Hate speech is protected under the first amendment. It doesn't matter if you disagree, your feelings are not that important. Your expression, no matter how disgusting, is protected up until the point of violence, or threats of violence. If you honestly think the Generation that fought Hitler is proud of this flag burning communists, you are delusional.

[Rhamses]

A great post on this topic
http://streetwiseprofessor.com/

Actually that's a pretty terrible post. It excuses the far right because "it's been around for a long time", and says that Antifa is "anti-White" when the majority of its members are white themselves.

I wonder when "anti-White" became the same as "anti-Nazi/fascist".

[Noomz]

Anyone that attended school knows that -x minus -x is x

People wouldn't listen. They said things like lolol there are no nazis you're a dangerous paranoid !!1

And now there are supremacists marching in the streets with torches nazis flags, running through crowds with their cars



I want to respect opinions but at this point if you still oppose anti fascists for preventing nazi oppression guess what maybe you're directly collaborating with these wannabe SS idiots.

Capitalism has gone way too far and the age of moderates is over deal with it

Remember ussr was merely an early draft, once capitalism inevitably destroys itself, communism will take over and fix the mistakes of greedy individualists

I see you changed your name so you wouldn't be called out about it all the time.

I oppose the leftwing extremists because they're violent and have no issue with attacking anyone else they deem unworthy. Those are also the same people who often riot, destroying public and private property and beating up anyone that tries to defend it.

Opposing both extremes is what anyone reasonable does. Your words have been spoken before and they weren't any more true then than they are now.

[Eazy]

Why should I support some radical bunch of morons ? Both sides are retards, whom are both violent... only difference being that Antifa are fucking hypocrites.

"If you're not with us you're against us!"

Honestly ?

I oppose the leftwing extremists because they're violent and have no issue with attacking anyone else they deem unworthy. Those are also the same people who often riot, destroying public and private property and beating up anyone that tries to defend it.

Opposing both extremes is what anyone reasonable does.

Quoted for truth.

[Rhamses]

Assaulting people you don't agree with is not a "noble service". Hate speech is protected under the first amendment. It doesn't matter if you disagree, your feelings are not that important. Your expression, no matter how disgusting, is protected up until the point of violence, or threats of violence.

Wouldn't threats of violence include those Nazi chants coming from the Unite the Right protestors during their torch rally?

[Rustykeyboard]

dont ever use Wikipedia if u want to know more about different political ideologies. if u take higher education then wikipedia is not a source that u can trust. that is because the author is unknown and everyone can type whatever they want to. so when it comes to political ideologies like u wrote "antifa (US) and White supremacy" everyone can write what they want and their view when they are writing articles that it is less objective and more subjective.

[nycnyc88]

Actually that's a pretty terrible post. It excuses the far right because "it's been around for a long time", and says that Antifa is "anti-White" when the majority of its members are white themselves.

I wonder when "anti-White" became the same as "anti-Nazi/fascist".

Not at all, most likely you didnt even read the whole thing.
What the post really says is that far right and far left are 2 sides of one coin, and extremes on both sides is what will lead us to the dead end.
Both far left and far right are collectivist and anti-rational, and hence at odds with the American political tradition which was individualist and rooted in the rationalism of the enlightenment.

[keyblade01]

Wouldn't threats of violence include those Nazi chants coming from the Unite the Right protestors during their torch rally?

I don't know, does screaming "Death to facsists" and chants about murdering police count as violence?

[Video Games]

Historically there is absolutely no guarantee that radical fringe groups will be forgotten in the annals of time if not opposed. Italy's Fascist blackshirts were a radical fringe group. They wound up running the country. The Nazi party was a radical fringe group. They wound up running the country. The Bolsheviks were one of the smallest radical fringe groups in the general pool of Communist fringe groups. They wound up running the country.

Worked out well before I hear.

Dunno if you guys have noticed, but we live in a different age. These people will never run this country. @Me when they try to take over this country, but the military and cops when beat their asses back to the stone age if they try.

[Ahovv]

Ah yes. Opposing Antifa makes me a fascist!

Thanks for educating me!

[Bryntrollian]

If groups like antifa were around back in the 30s & 40s, there might have not been a holocaust.

Its real simple, anyone that supports groups that embrace the holocaust or the people that caused the holocaust, need to be met with equal force.If the NeoNazi's show up in armor and weapons and performing paramilitary drills, then they need to be attacked.

Never again.

Too bad what you're saying has already transpired in history.


Antifa lost and there was definitely a holocaust

[Gamer8585]

Assaulting people you don't agree with is not a "noble service". Hate speech is protected under the first amendment. It doesn't matter if you disagree, your feelings are not that important. Your expression, no matter how disgusting, is protected up until the point of violence, or threats of violence.

1) You somehow missed that I was talking about and comparing core principles. There will be people that go too far no matter the actual ideology. Look at the Crusades. Jesus said: Feed the Hungry, Do unto others, Turn the Other Cheek, I die for your sins, etc. And some retards interpreted that as, "Military Campaign in the Holy Land!"

2) Freedom of Speech isn't freedom from consequences. You can yell your racist anti-american bullshit up and down a public square and the police can't arrest you, but the rest of society is free to yell back that you're being an asshole and that they're not going to serve you or associate with you.

3) Incitement isn't protected speech anywhere. You can publish "Mien Kamf"and not get thrown in jail, but if you start gathering around with other like-minded hatemongers and start waving flags with Swastikas and start calling for the extermation of large groups of people...well given the context of history that can be interpreted as incitement to violence.

[Deleted]

A great post on this topic
http://streetwiseprofessor.com/

What a fucking loony post.