What would you do to change the current state of DH (Boring as fuck rotation)

[Deleted]

What about putting Chaos Strike on a cooldown but significantly increasing it's damage? The fact that we need to bind CS to mousewheel to prevent physical hand/wrist pain is fucking ridiculous.

Having physical problems when playing a class might be an indicator you should play a different one instead of insisting to change a core mechanic? Perhaps try something different?


No offense, but any change to the class as it is might put off a lot of players. It's popular because it's braindead easy to play, and expecting to have any level of complexity attached to it is naive. Blizzard stripped DH of any complexity because it neither does appeal to the masses who couldn't even use the class properly with 2 bis legendaries, nor do they want to limit themselves with encounter design.

[Skayth]

My changes to the spec for baseline:

Demon's bite - Does X amount initial damage and gives X amount of Fury, but also gives you a 10 second buff of Fury generation off of autoattacks (Demon blades and demons bites now as one, but you dont spam the living hell out of demon's bite). This will cut Demons blades talent.

Throw Glaive now always has 2 charges (cuts master of the glaive)

Blade Dance now has first blood talent baked into it. (cuts first blood)

talent changes would be as followed:

Fel Mastery now also has the fel rush charges reset after using Eye Beam. This forces using Eye Beam in single target, while also gives what was Blur's ability to a 45 sec cd.

Blindfury now makes Eye Beam no longer cost fury, on top of what is already does. (this changes the artifact ability to shortening the cd of eye beam).

What was demon's blades is now Furious Glaive, where you throw the glaive for X initial damage, and any fury generation is increased X fold for 8 Seconds. Damage of this ability is also increased X times if you have a dot upon the target (blood let or eye beam dot). This ability uses a charge of throw glaive

First Blood is now gives the 4 set bonus of t20 (refunds 20 fury) while also giving you the ability to proc blade dance upon using Fel Rush (as long as it hits the target).

Momentum and Nemesis are pretty good right now. They both have their quirks, but I dislike nemesis of popping and forgetting about, but others do. As for Fel Eruption, give it more damage, to be able to compete with Nem and momentum on a shorter cd, while also cutting the interaction with stuns or not stuns, if it stuns or does, it still does the full damage. Does Less damage in pvp, thats all.

Mastery of The Glaive changed to reducing the recharge timer on throw glaive.

Fel Barrage now resets the cd of Eye Beam after usage.

Demonic now lasts 10 seconds.

[A dot Ham]

Basically, Chaos Strike, pray to get a good rng with FelBlade/auto attacks from ring, repeat. There is literally nothing else to do. Beside using artifact weapon every 60 seconds and throw glaives if you don't have fury. DH feels underwhelming compared to other classes by a far shot. Coming from rogue main and a warrior, demon hunter just feels -- bland? ````````````````````````````````````````` I JUST WANT TO SEE YOUR OPINIONS ABOUT DH DONT EAT ME ALIVE ````````````````````````````

First fuck that ring. Any guide out has that ring as default. So fuck it, fuck RNG... fuck fuck fuck. (Clearly I don't have it)

Next they totally back tracked on this.

Legion was supposed to have a good, better, best option for talents. That made more difficult playstyles/rotations more rewarding... and if you didn't care well you could always do EZ mode for decent, but not great damage.

I think the actual culprit is fury and its generation. They are so desperate to have it different from warriors or rogues... and its in a terrible place.

What they need to do is buff the current go to build's damage, but reduce fury generation.

Then by increasing fury generation to a momentum build making it more viable/fun. Minor tweeks to dmg where necessary.

[TyrannicalPuppy]

A mechanic that makes Metamorphisis as chaotic to you as it's supposed to be in lore. Have Glaive Toss' DoT be baseline. Have the amount of Fury generated by Demon's Bite/Demon Blades ramp up with every consecutive use, as well as increasing the Crit Strike chance of your next Chaos Strike or Glaive Toss (and the DoT by extension) by x% for each stack. Generally, just add more synergy between the abilities so it feels more like you're combing against the enemy than just randomly attacking.

Metamorphosis

Something like Shadow Priests' insanity into Void Form mechanic would be cool, except instead of wanting to get your Fury to max and then activate Metamorphosis, you want to keep your Fury <100%, or else you'll enter a premature Metamorphosis state that deals damage to you as well.

Fury Ramp-up

Having Demon's Bite/Demon Blades give you a buff for each time you use it consecutively, which then empowers Chaos Strike and/or Glaive Toss like this:

1 Stack
Increases Fury generation of Demon's Bite/Demon Blades by 10% and increases Critical Strike chance of your next Chaos Strike or Glaive Toss by 25%.

2 Stacks
Increases Fury generation of Demon's Bite/Demon Blades by 20% and increases Critical Strike chance of your next Chaos Strike or Glaive Toss by 50%.

etc. and stacking up maybe 3-4 times.

This way Chaos Strike is guaranteed to crit at least once, and it would also incentivize using Blade Dance and possibly changing Felblade to be a Fury Dump instead of a generator. I dunno about that part at least, I just kinda thought that all up off the top of my head.

[Ysho]

And who the fuck runs CC with T20?

When I run demonic, SotS+Chaos Cleave+Helm sims and performs about 100k more than any other legendary combo (for demonic of course).

[Skayth]

A mechanic that makes Metamorphisis as chaotic to you as it's supposed to be in lore. Have Glaive Toss' DoT be baseline. Have the amount of Fury generated by Demon's Bite/Demon Blades ramp up with every consecutive use, as well as increasing the Crit Strike chance of your next Chaos Strike or Glaive Toss (and the DoT by extension) by x% for each stack. Generally, just add more synergy between the abilities so it feels more like you're combing against the enemy than just randomly attacking.

Metamorphosis

Something like Shadow Priests' insanity into Void Form mechanic would be cool, except instead of wanting to get your Fury to max and then activate Metamorphosis, you want to keep your Fury <100%, or else you'll enter a premature Metamorphosis state that deals damage to you as well.

Fury Ramp-up

Having Demon's Bite/Demon Blades give you a buff for each time you use it consecutively, which then empowers Chaos Strike and/or Glaive Toss like this:

1 Stack
Increases Fury generation of Demon's Bite/Demon Blades by 10% and increases Critical Strike chance of your next Chaos Strike or Glaive Toss by 25%.

2 Stacks
Increases Fury generation of Demon's Bite/Demon Blades by 20% and increases Critical Strike chance of your next Chaos Strike or Glaive Toss by 50%.

etc. and stacking up maybe 3-4 times.

This way Chaos Strike is guaranteed to crit at least once, and it would also incentivize using Blade Dance and possibly changing Felblade to be a Fury Dump instead of a generator. I dunno about that part at least, I just kinda thought that all up off the top of my head.

I would dislike the metamorphosis. To similar to Demonologies meta (which was far superior in what it did than ours). Does it need a slight revamp in what it does? Sort of. If I could, I would make Demonic Baseline, so that you see big demons all the damn time, rather than every 2-4 mins (pending your runes and leggos now). But if we are going by, right now, a revamp of meta this much, wouldnt be fun. Hell, all Spriests did was take Demo lock's meta.

[Phookah]

The abilities need a lot more interaction with each other for starters. Virtually nothing a DH does has an interaction with anything else they do. Chaos strike doesn't affect anything else, blade dance is its own thing, fel rush does nothing with anything else... Felblade has a reset mechanic, but it's one of the only ones in the entire spec.

It just doesn't feel very cohesive at all, like other people have echoed it comes off as a half finished class they tossed out there. Personally I'm going to wait an expansion or so before I try to take up my DH again, once they finally figure out what they actually want to do with the spec.

[TyrannicalPuppy]

I would dislike the metamorphosis. To similar to Demonologies meta (which was far superior in what it did than ours). Does it need a slight revamp in what it does? Sort of. If I could, I would make Demonic Baseline, so that you see big demons all the damn time, rather than every 2-4 mins (pending your runes and leggos now). But if we are going by, right now, a revamp of meta this much, wouldnt be fun. Hell, all Spriests did was take Demo lock's meta.

Having Demonic be baseline would definitely be a much more viable alternative than my idea. Maybe add in a slight health drain to Demonic, since that would already be cancelled out by the massive leach anyway, but would still reflect how chaotic the energies that the demon hunter is trying to control really are.

[Ysho]

I think the actual culprit is fury and its generation. They are so desperate to have it different from warriors or rogues... and its in a terrible place.

What they need to do is buff the current go to build's damage, but reduce fury generation.

Then by increasing fury generation to a momentum build making it more viable/fun. Minor tweeks to dmg where necessary.

Personally all of the fearmongering about fury generation prior to the release of 7.2.5 was exactly that...fearmongering. Gear scaling has made fury gen more than adequate for me. I'm at 938.5 ilvl and like 51% crit. I can live with the simplicity of the rotation. I just don't like how weak we are at cleaving/aoe unless we completely spec into it and change around legendaries etc.

[Ulfric Trumpcloak]

That's like giving Fireball a cooldown

It's nothing like giving fireball a CD, fireball has a cast time. Chaos strike is the one and only reason why havoc has such a horrendous play style, your rotation is practically to just spam the same ability over and over. As a fire mage your goal is to get Pyro procs, as a DH your goal is to spam an ability that has no CD...

Mortal strike has a CD, Crusader strike has a CD, Eviscerate needs combo points. All those specs are miles more entertaining than Havoc.

[Shirofune]

What about putting Chaos Strike on a cooldown but significantly increasing it's damage? The fact that we need to bind CS to mousewheel to prevent physical hand/wrist pain is fucking ridiculous.

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have you used Soul of the Slayer on Desolate Host (blade dance+Mo'args) or with memebeam spec+T20 (chaos cleave)? It may be situational but it's not garbage.

Yep, and I got better results with the ST Spec.

Sots only serves one use. Padding.

[Sylvaeres]

Basically, Chaos Strike, pray to get a good rng with FelBlade/auto attacks from ring, repeat. There is literally nothing else to do. Beside using artifact weapon every 60 seconds and throw glaives if you don't have fury. DH feels underwhelming compared to other classes by a far shot. Coming from rogue main and a warrior, demon hunter just feels -- bland? ````````````````````````````````````````` I JUST WANT TO SEE YOUR OPINIONS ABOUT DH DONT EAT ME ALIVE ````````````````````````````

I'd make throw glaive into a bleed-Dot that would increase damage taken, and make it be more important to keep up rather than spell you use only in filler situations

[Pigglix]

i wouldnt mind a chaos strike cooldown IF the cd is around 4 sec and reduced by haste and didnt cost fury, instead, generate it. and make Eye Beam to work like rampage.

As in, costs 100 fury, no cooldown

Then i would be totally fine with a cd on chaos strike.

[Skayth]

i wouldnt mind a chaos strike cooldown IF the cd is around 4 sec and reduced by haste and didnt cost fury, instead, generate it. and make Eye Beam to work like rampage.

As in, costs 100 fury, no cooldown

Then i would be totally fine with a cd on chaos strike.

The problem is eyebeam is intended to be a short cd aoe. If it hits like a truck everything it's used and in st, and as a main fury dump, then we are back to being gods in aoe and st. They would need to concieve a new fury dump then

[Shirofune]

When I run demonic, SotS+Chaos Cleave+Helm sims and performs about 100k more than any other legendary combo (for demonic of course).

Not rly:

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/repo...ZmTuN3sqJtrt2D Demonic with Sots + Helmet
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/repo...5aEA6f9StTKtjp Demonic with Anger + Helmet

[elfporn]

So far people are agreeing on one thing: Demonic playstyle is more interesting, albeit more rng, than other builds.

I would like souls to become(for both tank and dps) a formal Resource, with a dedicated tracker.

From there, it's easy to create ability synergy: Demon's bite generates fury and increases crit chance of next CC by 5% for 5 seconds.

Chaos cleave gets Demonic appetite rolled into it baseline, Blade Dance added synergy would be to collect any stray souls.

After the above, they create talents to modify the effect of consuming souls. Room could be created by replacing fluff talents like fel barrage and fel eruption, or by baking talents into abilities.

You already have the artifact trait reducing the cd of eyebeam for each soul consumed (which would have been much better as a talent), but what if we had a talented nuke like say...spirit bomb, that was only activated after consuming enough souls. Or a talent increasing crit chance by X% for each soul consumed up to X for X seconds. Or for every soul consumed your next CC will hit 1 additional target. Etc.

It would "force" a more demonic style gameplay, leaning towards utilizing more of the kit, and make the gameplay overall a bit more interesting.

[VengfulPecs]

So far people are agreeing on one thing: Demonic playstyle is more interesting, albeit more rng, than other builds.

I would like souls to become(for both tank and dps) a formal Resource, with a dedicated tracker.

From there, it's easy to create ability synergy: Demon's bite generates fury and increases crit chance of next CC by 5% for 5 seconds.

Chaos cleave gets Demonic appetite rolled into it baseline, Blade Dance added synergy would be to collect any stray souls.

After the above, they create talents to modify the effect of consuming souls. Room could be created by replacing fluff talents like fel barrage and fel eruption, or by baking talents into abilities.

You already have the artifact trait reducing the cd of eyebeam for each soul consumed (which would have been much better as a talent), but what if we had a talented nuke like say...spirit bomb, that was only activated after consuming enough souls. Or a talent increasing crit chance by X% for each soul consumed up to X for X seconds. Or for every soul consumed your next CC will hit 1 additional target. Etc.

It would "force" a more demonic style gameplay, leaning towards utilizing more of the kit, and make the gameplay overall a bit more interesting.

I'm all down for having souls as a resource but not really a fan of having to walk or move toward the souls, rather have it as like a chi bar or something. But I feel if we have it called "souls" locks will complain.

[elfporn]

I'm all down for having souls as a resource but not really a fan of having to walk or move toward the souls, rather have it as like a chi bar or something. But I feel if we have it called "souls" locks will complain.

I don't have an issue with them spreading out around the player so long as the soul-spender abilities suck them in. It's nice to have the healing option from those souls waiting to be used.

[VengfulPecs]

I don't have an issue with them spreading out around the player so long as the soul-spender abilities suck them in. It's nice to have the healing option from those souls waiting to be used.

Yeah the Vengeance spec did this right, but for havoc (Meme beam build) even thought the souls are not far apart having to move to the soul to collect it is kind of clunky

[BiggestNoob]

Changes that should happen:

CB / DB needs a nerf, and Anger needs to have a higher minimum amount outside of DB so it's much more consistent at generating a lot of Fury. Demonic should be competitive with CB on ST, and CC could synergize better with CB so Demonic doesn't just wipe the floor with it on cleave/AoE.

Chaos Cleave needs a huge buff. Blade Dance shouldn't have a Fury cost, the bonus Fury from T20 should actually be considerable. It should be rotational and should have 2 charges (same recharge rate).

Fel Barrage should be baseline but weaker (a useful short CD ability that we can mix in intelligently, like for adds, what Blade Dance / EB currently are), perhaps the current talent would remove the CD and make it much stronger, allowing it to be a central ability even ST and providing some intense AoE burst on 3-4 targets which we currently suck at. If we're supposed to be "AoE gods" like Blizzard claimed, this is a change that we need. I want to see this ability be useful for once after it was nerfed into the ground.

Blade Dance also needs to be made Chaos damage so it's buffed by mastery so mastery is less garbage.

With those changes, some tweaks to damage of some abilities may need to happen that would leave us middle of the pack pure ST but upper 5 for consistent AoE and cleave AoE. A baseline Fel Barrage could cost Fury and have a CD for instance (that are both removed with the talent) but it hits quite hard, so we wouldn't want to use it ST due to the cost (say 70 Fury or something) but it would absolutely and utterly destroy any adds that are spawned, making it extremely potent on 2+ targets. I could even see this being made quadratic (the target explodes hitting every nearby target for X damage and applying a stack of chaotic energy to every target hit, after 10 seconds chaotic energies explode dealing Y damage to all nearby targets).