TLM Protest St. Louis - is TLM the new BLM?

[Deleted]

Good riddance...I hope they emptied their clip.

[Aphrel]

"Mr Herring is believed to be the 19th trans person killed by police in the US this year."

How many total have been killed by the police this year? How large a % of the total population is transppl?

Info we need before we decide wether the number 19 is statisticly significant.

[Deleted]

A transgender woman, Kiwi Herring, mother of 3, was brutally shot

They mean Father of 3 right? Were they genetically Kiwi's kids?

[Deus Mortis]

Video showing that the driver did stop for several seconds.

[Deleted]

Ok. Then link your sources.

- - - Updated - - -



Look up Stonewall.

Stonewall was a riot started by the Police clamping down on Illegal underground clubs, not a bunch of Gay people randomly deciding to destroy shit. Also, as for his sources, look up any High School level Biology Book.

Gender is a literal spook. All that matters is Sex.

[tumppu]

Why is this blocking traffic bullshit a thing over there? Who the hell thinks preventing random people from going about their lives is a reasonable way to protest against perceived "police brutality" (and I must say this case seems like one that certainly needs those "" around it)? How about you try to block police from doing their jobs, because you think they are doing it badly?

[Deleted]

Attacking the police with a knife and wondering why you get shot... people these days.

Besides, why are transgenders prostesting this much? Seems like the entire US is transgender these days, all the retarded shit news that comes out of that hellhole. Too much atrazine in the food and water supply? People are going crazy.

[Moralgy]

QFT.

C'mon mods, Infracted. Really?

Is it really surprising a post calling an entire demographic mentally ill got infracted? I may even agree with the premise but damn, it really is simple why it was infracted.

[Spectral]

Is it really surprising a post calling an entire demographic mentally ill got infracted? I may even agree with the premise but damn, it really is simple why it was infracted.

Gender dysphoria is a DSM-5 diagnosis. Whether you want to refer to a psychiatric disorder a mental illness or not seems like splitting hairs, but it is a disorder.

This is actually an interesting dynamic. People on the really, really extreme fringes of the left seem to believe this isn't a disorder at all and is just within the range of neuroatypical, but perfectly healthy ways to be. Personally, I regard that as denialism that's not too different from telling people with depression to just get over it or saying that autism isn't a disorder. Something being a disorder doesn't imply that it's bad, stupid, immoral - it implies that it actually needs treatment, which is what the general scientific consensus on gender dysphoria is.

[Moralgy]

Gender dysphoria is a DSM-5 diagnosis. Whether you want to refer to a psychiatric disorder a mental illness or not seems like splitting hairs, but it is a disorder.

This is actually an interesting dynamic. People on the really, really extreme fringes of the left seem to believe this isn't a disorder at all and is just within the range of neuroatypical, but perfectly healthy ways to be. Personally, I regard that as denialism that's not too different from telling people with depression to just get over it or saying that autism isn't a disorder. Something being a disorder doesn't imply that it's bad, stupid, immoral - it implies that it actually needs treatment, which is what the general scientific consensus on gender dysphoria is.

Disorder =/= illness, especially when people are calling others "mentally ill". Lets be honest with ourselves here, that person was just flat up insulting a demographic instead of adding anything constructive what so ever.

[Venant]

Gender dysphoria is a DSM-5 diagnosis. Whether you want to refer to a psychiatric disorder a mental illness or not seems like splitting hairs, but it is a disorder.

This is actually an interesting dynamic. People on the really, really extreme fringes of the left seem to believe this isn't a disorder at all and is just within the range of neuroatypical, but perfectly healthy ways to be. Personally, I regard that as denialism that's not too different from telling people with depression to just get over it or saying that autism isn't a disorder. Something being a disorder doesn't imply that it's bad, stupid, immoral - it implies that it actually needs treatment, which is what the general scientific consensus on gender dysphoria is.

Not all trans persons have gender dysphoria, I would actually be surprised if the majority of those currently identifying as trans have medically diagnosed gender dysphoria.

But lets keep in mind, this thread isn't about gender, its about a police shooting and a protest that had an incident with a car

[Spectral]

Not all trans persons have gender dysphoria, I would actually be surprised if the majority of those currently identifying as trans have medically diagnosed gender dysphoria.

But lets keep in mind, this thread isn't about gender, its about a police shooting and a protest that had an incident with a car

Sure, sometimes it's just a sexual fetish rather than actual dysphoria. I generally give people the benefit of the doubt that they're talking about people with dysphoria rather than just trying to normalize autogynephilia though.

On topic, I realize why it's important (here) to dance around the object-level question of the idea of trans activism, but it really is pretty hard to assess the validity of the movement without addressing the disorder itself.

- - - Updated - - -

Disorder =/= illness, especially when people are calling others "mentally ill". Lets be honest with ourselves here, that person was just flat up insulting a demographic instead of adding anything constructive what so ever.

How would you define "mental illness"? In general parlance, it's used pretty synonymously with "psychiatric disorder".

I agree that the person in question was basically insulting a demographic, given current cultural norms, but it's pretty interesting that the cultural norm of pretending that transgenderism doesn't stem from a disorder exists in the first place. That norm sure popped up in a hurry!

[josykay]

Gender dysphoria is a DSM-5 diagnosis. Whether you want to refer to a psychiatric disorder a mental illness or not seems like splitting hairs, but it is a disorder.

This is actually an interesting dynamic. People on the really, really extreme fringes of the left seem to believe this isn't a disorder at all and is just within the range of neuroatypical, but perfectly healthy ways to be. Personally, I regard that as denialism that's not too different from telling people with depression to just get over it or saying that autism isn't a disorder. Something being a disorder doesn't imply that it's bad, stupid, immoral - it implies that it actually needs treatment, which is what the general scientific consensus on gender dysphoria is.

It is a disorder. Yeah. But that does not mean, that people suffering from it, don't need to be respected. And so far, the only remotely successfull treatment is hormone replacement therapy and reassignment surgery. And here is the problem. It is not "mutilation", it is the only treatment, you can offer those folks, at least with the current medical knowlege, that might offer some form of relief. The other option would be, to do nothing. And, well, wait, till the person tries to kill him/ herself or trying to perform the removal of physical attributes themselves. And by god.. I guess, we already know, what the better option is.
And, trans people aren't forced to do this. If the surgeries are not for them, good for them. Don't do it. But at least people could then still treat them with respect. Just because a person doesn't have the surgery, that doesn't mean the diagnosis is wrong. Some people can not afford it, some can not have such a surgery performed because of medidical additions... or other reasons.

Several people claim, "transpeople need treatment, not mutilation", but guess what the treatment is? So far, just like therapy the gay away, therapy the trans away, wosn't really successful. And that's the problem I have with most discussion about trans people. That people fail to realize, that this IS the treatment. And I guess, most people are well aware, that they can not change into completely being of the different gender, just making it look like they are. But in the every day life, isn't just for example look like a woman enough, to be considered a woman? Nobody gives a shit about your chromosomes at your every day tasks, or about your fertility.


But instead several people attempt to abuse the DSM 5-diagnosis to devalue those people, dehumanize them, and mock them.

[Spectral]

It is a disorder. Yeah. But that does not mean, that people suffering from it, don't need to be respected. And so far, the only remotely successfull treatment is hormone replacement therapy and reassignment surgery. And here is the problem. It is not "mutilation", it is the only treatment, you can offer those folks, at least with the current medical knowlege, that might offer some form of relief. The other option would be, to do nothing. And, well, wait, till the person tries to kill him/ herself or trying to perform the removal of physical attributes themselves. And by god.. I guess, we already know, what the better option is.
And, trans people aren't forced to do this. If the surgeries are not for them, good for them. Don't do it. But at least people could then still treat them with respect. Just because a person doesn't have the surgery, that doesn't mean the diagnosis is wrong. Some people can not afford it, some can not have such a surgery performed because of medidical additions... or other reasons.

Several people claim, "transpeople need treatment, not mutilation", but guess what the treatment is? So far, just like therapy the gay away, therapy the trans away, wosn't really successful. And that's the problem I have with most discussion about trans people. That people fail to realize, that this IS the treatment. And I guess, most people are well aware, that they can not change into completely being of the different gender, just making it look like they are. But in the every day life, isn't just for example look like a woman enough, to be considered a woman? Nobody gives a shit about your chromosomes at your every day tasks, or about your fertility.


But instead several people attempt to abuse the DSM 5-diagnosis to devalue those people, dehumanize them, and mock them.

Just to be clear, I'm not using "disorder" to take a shot at anyone. I'm agnostic on the value of surgery, from what I've looked at it seems like it's still fairly controversial as a treatment, but it's also not my profession and I don't care enough to develop any real expertise on the matter. It doesn't seem like there's much of anything that's especially effective at making trans people particularly happy (on average), but I'm personally perfectly willing to be kind and respectful in any interpersonal relationships I have with them.

[Sama-81]

Gender dysphoria is a DSM-5 diagnosis. Whether you want to refer to a psychiatric disorder a mental illness or not seems like splitting hairs, but it is a disorder.

This is actually an interesting dynamic. People on the really, really extreme fringes of the left seem to believe this isn't a disorder at all and is just within the range of neuroatypical, but perfectly healthy ways to be. Personally, I regard that as denialism that's not too different from telling people with depression to just get over it or saying that autism isn't a disorder. Something being a disorder doesn't imply that it's bad, stupid, immoral - it implies that it actually needs treatment, which is what the general scientific consensus on gender dysphoria is.

Finally someone with a sane, and scientific, approach on this. I know it is a sensitive topic, but that doesn't mean that we can suddenly deny scientific fact - nor that we, in an attempt to avoid stigmatizing people with disorders (which is a good thing, naturally) go so far that we more or less start to praise disorders as "daring to be different", or go full on escapism-mode. We've already had a thread full of people more or less self-diagnosed with some form of autism or aspergers, seriously believing that it would somehow constitute a strength of theirs and not a rather serious neurodevelopmental disorder, and I can't count the people that in all earnestness seem to believe that gender dysphoria comes down to nothing other than simply "being born in the wrong body", end explanation. Not everyone needs a degree in medicine or biology, obviously, but come on. Really, now?

Personally, I certainly don't mind people having the opinion that there needs to be more genders if it is a proposition meant to facilitate the lives of those that suffer from gender dysphoria, but lets not pretend that what we're dealing with isn't, ultimately, just that. A disorder. And that creating another gender (or switching to the other one) isn't necessarily of any major help for the individual in question, and can even at times have negative effects. I'm certainly not an authority when it comes to treatments, but I'm at least well aware of the fact that the situation tends to be quite a lot more problematic than most people seem to give it credit for, who instead prefers/needs it to be easy and straight forward to suit the image they want to have of the clinical situation.

[Themius]

Representation is fine.

Shoving it in the face of anyone who does not agree with you while employing a double standard is not.

It's kinda like GoDaddy/Paypal's little ban-wave, and the guy who didn't want to bake cakes for gay people.

Case and point:




Can't have it both ways. Either it's people's right to refuse service, or it's not. It's really that simple.



Look at who performed the infraction, and that will tell you all that needs be said.

You can't refuse to serve black people on the basis that they're black. You can't refuse to serve gay people on the basis that they're gay.

[Deleted]

Why are street demonstrations so popular in the US?

They accomplish absolutely nothing and often only makes the cause even more hated by the public.

[Moralgy]

How would you define "mental illness"? In general parlance, it's used pretty synonymously with "psychiatric disorder".

I agree that the person in question was basically insulting a demographic, given current cultural norms, but it's pretty interesting that the cultural norm of pretending that transgenderism doesn't stem from a disorder exists in the first place. That norm sure popped up in a hurry!

I generally don't call a single thing an illness anymore since it is, and has been for a long time, a catch-all term to be a dick to people with disorders. Not to mention a certain section of people use phrases such as "my illness" to excuse their shitty behaviors.

You aren't wrong though, but I would say this ignoring of the dysphoria being a disorder arose because people want to be dicks. If we could all call out people just being dicks, fewer people are likely to try to sweep it under the rug. I mean hell, you have people in this very thread saying trans people need "treatment" when the treatment is exactly what they are being a dick about.

As for your point about talking about trans activism while not talking about trans itself, it is very hard and honestly. I doubt the forum mods would give as much shit about the topic if people could actually be adults and not memelords that just want to take potshots.

[weedburst]

anyone with a brain laughed at BLM on sight and said roughly "no shit, all lives matter"... now here we are all this time later and more morons still don't get it, everyone matters, creating a special group for yourself is just self segregation and works directly against what you claim to want. it's funny and sad to watch these morons fight themselves and hurt their own causes by labeling it and segregating themselves.

oh well, maybe TLM and BLM can have a war and the winner will be the group that matters the most!!!

[Themius]

anyone with a brain laughed at BLM on sight and said roughly "no shit, all lives matter"... now here we are all this time later and more morons still don't get it, everyone matters, creating a special group for yourself is just self segregation and works directly against what you claim to want. it's funny and sad to watch these morons fight themselves and hurt their own causes by labeling it and segregating themselves.

oh well, maybe TLM and BLM can have a war and the winner will be the group that matters the most!!!

Anyone without a brain said "no shit all lives matter".

It's like gays protesting for equal rights and let's just say they said "gay discrimination matters" and someone else is like "fuck that all discrimination matters!" meanwhile everyone else but gays are covered by federal discrimination laws so saying all discrimination matters is just a way to silence a very real issue.