Is argus no flying?

[Deleted]

This is Blizzard's logic: if you want to get that rare on the top of tower - you need to kill all pointless mobs on your way, cuz they're - implicit part of quest. What's the problem with including them to quest explicitly - I don't know. I guess, it's the same crap, as RNG - Blizzard just want to make some psychological illusion, that quest isn't that hard, long, boring and tedious, as it really is.

So better skip all and fly over it? Nice shitty logic for a RPG.

"I have to get to the top of the tower, fighting horde of mobs til the boss"

"LUL BETTER FLYING"

[Deleted]

Lol flying makes content trivial. The world loses immersion. Flying is simply too fast.

I dont like flying. It made the game a grind fest. It makes the world small. World PVP doesnt exist anymore.

Flying was a mistake. Imo they should never allow it. The only reason it came in 7.2 was all the cry babies.

[Deleted]

People seriously complain over flying in Argus? Are you kidding? There are beacons almost everywhere and the zones aren't that huge, it has been a fun experience for me so far and it will remain so. The skybox looks great and the environment feels dangerous. Stop complaining for the sake of complaining, flying isn't necessary in Argus.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Hey the same people beating the same dead horse! Never would have guess. Only knew this since like... oh.. Blizzcon last year. Mazin, I know, mazin'...

[Planetdune]

I really dislike no flying.. the game becomes very tedious if you are stuck to ground movement..

[Deleted]

People seriously complain over flying in Argus? Are you kidding? There are beacons almost everywhere and the zones aren't that huge, it has been a fun experience for me so far and it will remain so. The skybox looks great and the environment feels dangerous. Stop complaining for the sake of complaining, flying isn't necessary in Argus.

FOR YOU
Not for US who complain

Could have been great with Flying... too bad Blizzard too bad

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Lol flying makes content trivial. The world loses immersion. Flying is simply too fast.

I dont like flying. It made the game a grind fest. It makes the world small. World PVP doesnt exist anymore.

Flying was a mistake. Imo they should never allow it. The only reason it came in 7.2 was all the cry babies.

World pvp haha dont make me laugh.... it existed exactly until BGs came... back in Vanilla... oh Great World PVP..

[effs]

No flying on Argus is probably for Lore reasons. We're on a different planet and the enemy can shoot down Vindicaars. Let's give some Lore love every now and again.

[WowIsDead64]

You don't realize, how casual PVE works. It's about having checklist of things to do every day. If you can't handle this list - you just throw something out of it. And if game developer fills content from this list with water, i.e. implicit factors, that artificially stretch this content - you have to simply throw useful parts of content, you would enjoy and do otherwise, from your todo list. If this list shrinks too much, that it's no longer worth your time/money - you just unsub and quit game. That's how it works.

Nothing personal. I enjoy content with flying and don't enjoy without it. I do content with flying and don't do content without it. And I just can't force myself to do content, I don't enjoy, because of "reasons". If I enjoy red color - I enjoy it and that's it. No reasons will make me love green one. And you have no authority to ask me to quit game, if my point of view doesn't match devs' point of view. They should ask me to do it. But they would never do it, cuz they still need my money.

[FuxieDK]

In TBC it took a long time for anyone to get flying

This is as wrong as wrong gets:

Druids got flying at level 68 FOR FREE and everyone else bought it, when they dinged 70 and you cared to travel to Shadowmoon Valley.. I seem to recall the price was 20g..

Epic flight, on the other hand, was 5000g and rep bonus didn't exist yet..

[Deleted]

This is as wrong as wrong gets:

Druids got flying at level 68 FOR FREE and everyone else bought it, when they dinged 70 and you cared to travel to Shadowmoon Valley.. I seem to recall the price was 20g..

Epic flight, on the other hand, was 5000g and rep bonus didn't exist yet..

Exactly. Though I knew some people who could not afford basic flying at 70 which was quite mind boggling - I was never much of an AH player and managed to get flying right at hitting 70 on a new character starting from scratch on a new server, leveling professions and all of these. And getting epic flying was not that much of a thing after they have introduced daily quests.

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[SNIP] World pvp haha dont make me laugh.... it existed exactly until BGs came... back in Vanilla... oh Great World PVP..

I even play on a PvE server. I don't have world PvP. This is not a relevant argument whatsoever.

[Suggs]

There are plenty of places to fly in the game. Sometimes a no-fly zone is needed to keep people from just swooping in, grabbing stuff, and flying off. As a Druid, and a MAJOR offender of clicking things while IN FLIGHT FORM, I am ok with a Timeless Isle style zone. I can fly everywhere else and usually avoid no-fly zones until the next expac. If you are not enjoying the game, maybe you need to find a new game.

Ok so what your saying is if he doesnt play the game exactly like you...he should find a new game? ok got it.........

[Deleted]

People seriously complain over flying in Argus? Are you kidding? There are beacons almost everywhere and the zones aren't that huge, it has been a fun experience for me so far and it will remain so. The skybox looks great and the environment feels dangerous. Stop complaining for the sake of complaining, flying isn't necessary in Argus.

Give me sensible zone design and I will accept no flying as I did for example in MoP on the isles. Legion is an abomination of a zone design. They try to cramp as much as possible in a tiny space which has to be done using elevation differences. What about just making bigger zones instead? Jesus, have people lost half of their brains lately?

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Lol flying makes content trivial. The world loses immersion. Flying is simply too fast.

I dont like flying. It made the game a grind fest. It makes the world small. World PVP doesnt exist anymore.

Flying was a mistake. Imo they should never allow it. The only reason it came in 7.2 was all the cry babies.

My world loses immersion every time a flying mount is suddenly not able to fly without any existing world debuff or anything. This is highly inconsistent.

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Yeah, it's all about skipping mobs. Example: mob grants 1% progress, quest item grants 3%, rare grants 5% progress. Who would need mobs, if killing them - is very ineffective way of completing quest? Another example: you have to kill 10 mobs and then to kill boss, standing on the other side of zone. You kill 10 mobs, but there is still half of zone to get to boss. Who would need killing another 10 mobs, if this is just pointless waste of time? This is Blizzard's logic: if you want to get that rare on the top of tower - you need to kill all pointless mobs on your way, cuz they're - implicit part of quest. What's the problem with including them to quest explicitly - I don't know. I guess, it's the same crap, as RNG - Blizzard just want to make some psychological illusion, that quest isn't that hard, long, boring and tedious, as it really is.

"Argus - isn't part of Broken Isles map" - is just far-fetched excuse for not turning flying on there. Same as "It was like that in xpack X". From technical point of view - there is no difference. Map - is just UI thing, that has nothing to do with physical implementation of zones. It's structure is based purely on usablility, not on some technical factors.

It's not about skipping mobs per se. It's about skipping IRRELEVANT parts of the game and getting to the RELEVANT ones. If you want people to kill 15 mobs in addition to the named NPC target, then include this as a quest requirement. This is all you need to get people to actually kill the amount of additional targets. Another thing would let the mobs drop relevant loot. This could even lead people to kill more mobs compared to quest requirement, because they probably need gold, profession materials etc. We already have everything we need in the game to push the buttons to motivate people do things. We don't need artificial grounding.

If basic mobs out in the world would have some kind of difficulty and loot scaling to stay relevant for people beyond the initial phase of entering a zone, then I bet you would see more people out there killing mobs or stopping to kill mobs. But in the current state of the game, even with mob scaling, at max level they become obsolete very soon, because their loot does not scale. So please, if you want my interest - then give me something worthwhile. This is all what the debate is about, and flying has nothing to do with it. It's a scapegoat to distract from the real problem - early content obsolescence.

[WowIsDead64]

It's not about skipping mobs per se. It's about skipping IRRELEVANT parts of the game and getting to the RELEVANT ones. If you want people to kill 15 mobs in addition to the named NPC target, then include this as a quest requirement. This is all you need to get people to actually kill the amount of additional targets. Another thing would let the mobs drop relevant loot. This could even lead people to kill more mobs compared to quest requirement, because they probably need gold, profession materials etc. We already have everything we need in the game to push the buttons to motivate people do things. We don't need artificial grounding.

Yeah, what I actually wanted to say - is that I have some daily goal, such as for example earning 10K Appexis crystals. I want to do things, that grant some progression towards this goal. And if I need to kill 10 mobs and boss to achieve this goal - I want to do exactly this, nothing more. What Blizzard want me to do - to just kill mobs on my way from point A to point B. Just because it's so called "game mechanic". I just don't want to do it. It's ok to do it while leveling - for so called "immersion purposes", but it's not ok in endgame content. If I've already completed 100% quest zone progress and just need several more Corrupted Appexis Fragments from rares - I don't want to waste my time on killing mobs, that no longer grant any rewards or progression. I just want to kill this rare and go away.

[Aggrophobic]

What are you talking about? Lol are you telling me that the Legion zones were not made with flying in mind? That's so not true. They put flying in easy peasy. They didn't save on anything by doing that, same as WoD. They might have originally made the WoD zones not friendly for flying but they had to change it when flying came out. And they 100% made the Legion zones with flying in mind since they already knew that they were going to put the achievement in. The only thing that would have had to be designed entirely differently was Argus probably but it would have looked a lot less epic with those restrictions.

If you think not having flying saves dev money then you're dead wrong. Putting flying in would mean that they could skimp out on the zones just like in Cata and they obviously don't want to do that.

Agrus zones are not and thats what we're taling about here.
They didn't have time or didn't want to spend the money to actually make the playable while flying.

[SirCowdog]

Flying in WoW is realized essentially like a cheat code. It takes away from the game by making it ridiculously easy. And I hear your claims: "If you don't like flying don't use it!" That is stupid. This is not how (multiplayer) games work. Working with the tools you are given is the essence of a game, if you are given too many tools that is hurting the experience. Imagine there being a vendor selling ilvl 970 gear for little gold. That is similar. It is something that takes away from the game while at the same time could technically be ignored.

It appears that you're assuming that what many other people are using to argue for flying is what I'm saying. I'll go ahead and disabuse that notion right now by explaining why so much of what you just said it based on some pretty bad assumptions:

Flight as a cheat code:

This is a pretty common misconception that's really just the "flying skips content" argument with different wording. The problem is that flying only ruins or skips content when it's dropped into a design that pretends or ignores that flying doesn't exist. I'm going to keep going back to the examples of Icecrown and Stormpeaks where flying was used to enhance the overall experience, and had a fairly neutral impact on the zone. It didn't spoil anything because the zone was designed with the expectation that players can and WOULD be flying.

This idea that flying automatically ruins the experience ONLY applies in an open world design that pretends flying doesn't exist. This problem of flying didn't exist until WoD and Legion, the two expansions where Blizzard is trying their best to ignore flight. In other words: Flying wasn't a problem until blizzard made it into one by trying to force the ground-only design.

The "If you don't like flight then don't use it" argument:

This is one of the worst arguing points of the entire discussion. The simple truth is that ground mounts generally can be used in almost any situation where a flying mount can also be used. The main point that people tend to gloss over or ignore is that the player has the option to CHOOSE to use their ground or air mount, even if one option is objectively slower(although maybe subjectively equal).

Before WoD, the disparity between ground and air mounts was balanced by the existence of end-game "No-fly Islands". The types of content(ground and air-based) were varied, and players got a healthy dose of both styles of play. But since WoD, in the era of no-flying all the time everywhere, players don't even have any options to choose their preferred playstyle. There's no mix of content types. It's just fuck you ground all the time whether you like it or not.

This is why people keep bringing up the point of using your ground mount if you don't like flying. Even if it's slower, you have the option to choose to play the fully grounded experience if that's what you want. By players who want to have the flying experience that they enjoyed for nearly a decade get a giant middle finger, or are effectively told 'If you don't like playing the same way that I do, then leave the game'.

This is not how (multiplayer) games work.

This is exactly how WoW worked from TBC to MoP. This is also the period of time when WoW was at the height of it's popularity. I do not understand how anyone can sit here and type with a straight face that flying is hurting the experience in light of that simple fact.

[Tydan]

No flying on argus absolutely sucks. Its like driving a car with a blind fold on.

Oh how come i cant move forward, oh thats because there is a tiny pebble in my path.

The map looks like it has been drawn by a 5 year old with a pack of crayons and you literally need a compass and ordinance survey map to find your way around.

Makes Highmountain look like a flat straight of land.

[-Joker-]

This is a discussion forum. If you guys cant handle people coming here voicing their opinions then you have nothing to do here.

I am absolutely on board with people expressing their opinions. I just happen to like his more than some in this thread.

[yetgdhfgh]

Argus is simply too big for them not to implement flying eventually.

The whole layout is a nightmare with tons of mobs all over the roads and i can see it getting very tiresome towards the end.

Iam on a pve server so that whole PVP argument doesnt wash with me.

[Lahis]

The "If you don't like flight then don't use it" argument:

This is one of the worst arguing points of the entire discussion. The simple truth is that ground mounts generally can be used in almost any situation where a flying mount can also be used. The main point that people tend to gloss over or ignore is that the player has the option to CHOOSE to use their ground or air mount, even if one option is objectively slower(although maybe subjectively equal).

Before WoD, the disparity between ground and air mounts was balanced by the existence of end-game "No-fly Islands". The types of content(ground and air-based) were varied, and players got a healthy dose of both styles of play. But since WoD, in the era of no-flying all the time everywhere, players don't even have any options to choose their preferred playstyle. There's no mix of content types. It's just fuck you ground all the time whether you like it or not.

This is why people keep bringing up the point of using your ground mount if you don't like flying. Even if it's slower, you have the option to choose to play the fully grounded experience if that's what you want. By players who want to have the flying experience that they enjoyed for nearly a decade get a giant middle finger, or are effectively told 'If you don't like playing the same way that I do, then leave the game'.

There is no choice. Flying is so much more efficient that where it is enabled, players have to fly.

[Dhrizzle]

This is as wrong as wrong gets:

Druids got flying at level 68 FOR FREE and everyone else bought it, when they dinged 70 and you cared to travel to Shadowmoon Valley.. I seem to recall the price was 20g..

Epic flight, on the other hand, was 5000g and rep bonus didn't exist yet..

Flying skill and a mount cost around 1k in TBC.