Already sick of Argus

[Nyel]

My only problem is, you look funny at a mob, and the whole fucking planet is after you

This. Sometimes I'm not even attacking a mob but somebody else pulls it, runs away and then I am stuck with it. I'm like wtf?

[Bearded Sith]

Seems like Blizzard go out of their way to annoy players.

First there's no flying on Argus.
If the reason is so we could experience Argus world on foot, I get it.

But Blizzard make Argus like a freaking maze. The map doesn't show paths to certain areas. It gets annoying when the quest location is just beside you on the map but you need to walk one big round across the ledge to get to it. Wild goose chase for chests that are hidden behind objects, on mountains etc. We have no way of zooming out to see a mountain range or hill in its entirety, so finding the path to a chest is a guessing game... Why are maps becoming LESS detailed with time? If they don´t want to give us flying, at least they should make exploring on foot enjoyable and go back to detailed maps.

And I'm getting pretty sick of the dull green/fel worlds. You won't give us flying, but you also did not make questing on Argus bearable. It hurts my eyes to look at the terrain, keep getting lost, in this arbitrary terrain difficulty. The terrain is so poorly done that it's amateur. I've gotten stuck in ridges/craters so many times that my hearthstone has been on cooldown and I've had to use the unstuck feature repeatedly. Rocks and hills clip into each other. Moving very short distances on the map takes an excessively long time because of how inconveniently the zone is laid out.


The ground is a sea of trash mobs, some of whom can chain fear you. Once a pull goes badly I can either die or try to run entirely out of the zone, because there are almost no "safe spots." It feels like Blizzard wants us to kill useless mobs just to make us spend more time playing. Mounting up in this zone is a challenge in its own right...

The quest text is also nonexistent. Several world quests name strange objectives with no explanation of what they are, some quests fail to mention that they cannot be completed at certain times (ie if a camp has been destroyed), and some quest chains are simply hidden off to the side. I relied heavily on WoWhead to complete Argus.

This is what happens when "time played" is mistaken for "enjoyment". What a pathetic patch.

/endrant

I'm on a kick today. That "kick" is trying to understand WHY people come here and tell the world how unhappy they are with Warcraft. Why on earth do you play if you feel so miserable in the game? There are literally thousands upon thousands of other games out there in the world that you can play that might fit your personal desires in gaming much more satisfactorily than Warcraft is currently doing for you. I honest to God do not understand why people complain about this game. Personally, I enjoy it, otherwise I'd go play something else. It's not like I'm so heavily invested into the game that my life will end, or some great tragedy will befall me should I unsubscribe. So why is it so hard for others to just unsubscribe, move on, and play something else?

Are you looking for a specific type of empathy from the Warcraft community? Are you looking for justification to your unrest? Are you just trying to flame a fire of unhappiness upon others as an attempt to influence their own opinions and perhaps make them empathize with you further? I seriously don't get it. Don't like the game? Fine, find one you do enjoy! It's all about personal happiness and enrichment. If this isn't for you (which I'm positive it isn't for everyone) then move on and find your game. Embrace what you ENJOY, not what you dislike.

Finally, if you are attempting to "bring an injustice to light" in an effort to influence Blizzards decision-making process, there is no better way to show them you dislike their game than simply unsubscribing and moving on. They really seemed to have learned that lesson fully during WoD.

[Deleted]

I'm on a kick today. That "kick" is trying to understand WHY people come here and tell the world how unhappy they are with Warcraft. Why on earth do you play if you feel so miserable in the game? There are literally thousands upon thousands of other games out there in the world that you can play that might fit your personal desires in gaming much more satisfactorily than Warcraft is currently doing for you. I honest to God do not understand why people complain about this game. Personally, I enjoy it, otherwise I'd go play something else. It's not like I'm so heavily invested into the game that my life will end, or some great tragedy will befall me should I unsubscribe. So why is it so hard for others to just unsubscribe, move on, and play something else?

Are you looking for a specific type of empathy from the Warcraft community? Are you looking for justification to your unrest? Are you just trying to flame a fire of unhappiness upon others as an attempt to influence their own opinions and perhaps make them empathize with you further? I seriously don't get it. Don't like the game? Fine, find one you do enjoy! It's all about personal happiness and enrichment. If this isn't for you (which I'm positive it isn't for everyone) then move on and find your game. Embrace what you ENJOY, not what you dislike.

Finally, if you are attempting to "bring an injustice to light" in an effort to influence Blizzards decision-making process, there is no better way to show them you dislike their game than simply unsubscribing and moving on. They really seemed to have learned that lesson fully during WoD.

Nope, just sharing my opinion which many other players also share. Having rose-tinted glasses prevents one from seeing mistakes in something they love. And true love also means ability to see mistakes. Many of the posters here seem to be IN LOVE, which is not the same thing. Sorry for such analogy but it applies here.

Also, the 2 order hall missions that they have you do for quests will change your follower missions up to newer Argus ones, which have pretty much the exact same reward as the ones you currently have, except they cost twice the resources to complete (more in most cases, since you need to buy an Argus companion with resources to complete them 200%) and they take more than twice as long.

Just terrible. They did this with the 7.2 missions too, upped the duration and resource cost, while removing what little backstory the missions had in 7.0. Empty. Just like many world quests.

[Deleted]

Of course you can't fly on Argus, that'd trivialize it entirely.
Of course it all looks fel-corrupted and barren. IT'S ARGUS. The Legion has DESTROYED IT ENTIRELY.
Did you expect lush jungles and beautiful seas when saw it in the cut-scene before 7.3?
Of course the entire planet is an ocean of hostile enemies. IT'S ARGUS. It's the CORE of the Legion's operations!

I mean ... really, was anyone honestly expecting anything other than what Argus is?

My only contention so far is that some of the textures seem very barren.
And I'm not going against what I said above. Of course it's gray rock but it just doesn't have the depth and quality it should.
This has been something I've noticed becoming more frequently lately in WoW.
"Lazy" texturing, and then they are further F'd by being stretched over wide surface areas, blurring them.

"The Legion has DESTROYED IT ENTIRELY." No, they cut into half..it is supposed to be much better shape than Draenor

If the whole planet is an "ocean of hostile enemies" how the bloody hell the so called "resistance" survived for thousand years..thousand fucking years.....afterall "It's the CORE of the Legion's operations!" What did they ate? Drink? How they did not die?

[Caolela]

Ok, I dont really care, if I get an infraction, so im gonna say it - you are a fucking moron.

Go buy a different game. Play it - quit playing it and ask for money back.
You know what is the question they gonna ask you, when you do that? "Are you retarded?"

Unsub and quit whining. Or you are one of those guys, who never buys games or goes to cinema? Do you want your money back, if the new biscuits you got from the store are not your taste?

Now, thats from me: Are you retarded?

infracted

Apparently hearing the truth makes white knights angry. That's your fucking problem.

The simple fact is that Blizzard (and gaming industry in general) doesn't have the imperative of being answerable to unhappy customers like other industries/products do that refund purchase price after say, 30 days, to keep them honest. Playing free but highly restricted to level 20 doesn't count for shit. That's why Blizz can change the game radically at will and not be held to account because they've already gotten your money.

It's a nice gig if you can get it - only for those companies. But for paying customers it's a rip off.

You know what's moronic and retarded? People that grind constantly against a .xx% chance at getting something and never get it, but keep paying money to chase it. Enjoy your endless RNG Argus/Netherlight Crucible slot machine.

[Deleted]

Most people are irrational by nature. That is why one tries to trivialize concepts as much as they can in order to make it easier to understand, which might easily lead to seeing things black and white without considering other possibilities. Same thing happens when you see someone else complaining about the game. Possibly they enjoy the game enough to keep playing it, but they just don't like certain things about it.

[Swampmoose]

I'm unsure how my post is the perfect example of an intolerable community. I think those of us who focus on simple enjoyment of the game are sick and tired of petulant children stomping their feet in ridiculous forums posts because they aren't getting what they want. They don't understand how to speak with their wallets. They don't understand that Blizzard doesn't care that they're not having fun. They've designed the game to be their incarnation of what they think is fun, and if you don't enjoy it the simplest thing to do is not play.

I understand that people have issues with losing the 'investments' they've made in WoW - friendship investments, monetary investments for in-game services (transfers and the such) or game-time, the physical time you've invested with play time, etc. But at some point, when a game stops being fun and becomes more of a chore, you need to stop playing it. You need to stop making stupid posts on websites where the community is full of rabid fans and toxic haters. You just need to grow up and move on.

But hey, interpret what you want from my post. The inconsequentiality of this thread and the entire argument is moot for Blizzard's bottom line.

I find it odd how you keep telling people to grow up when you sit there bashing someone who simply has a different opinion about the game than you do. Irony at it's best. People are welcome to share their discontent with certain parts of the game. It's not uncommon for developers, including Blizzard, to attempt to create something new or different that doesn't sit well with certain people. That doesn't mean people don't like other aspects of the game. The only thing toxic about the community is people like you.

[Ponji]

I find it odd how you keep telling people to grow up when you sit there bashing someone who simply has a different opinion about the game than you do. Irony at it's best. People are welcome to share their discontent with certain parts of the game. It's not uncommon for developers, including Blizzard, to attempt to create something new or different that doesn't sit well with certain people. That doesn't mean people don't like other aspects of the game. The only thing toxic about the community is people like you.

You're right, in that people are welcome to share their discontent with the game. I still fail to see how stating blatantly obvious facts is toxic. You can't win when you either complain about or admire what the developers have done with regard to a patch or systems update. The community is far too polarized, and you're obviously aware of that.

You must be some sort of soft, thin-skinned child if you think my original post was bashing in any way. I was simply trying to convey that the thread and the argument are pointless - especially in a community like this or on a third-party website not affiliated with Blizzard. The OP started his thread flaming Blizzard for apparently "going out of their way to annoy players". He calls the patch pathetic, despite it's size, system changes, and the content that we're all getting over the course of a few weeks. He goes out of his way to ensure that we all know he's (pointlessly) ranting about his lack of enjoyment for the game. I suspect this is likely because his expectations were set far above what they should be.

That's not a community problem. That's a personal problem. My pointing it out isn't toxic either, it's simple observation. Like I said, some of us are sick of all the petulant children stomping their feet because they can't get what they want, or what they expect. You don't seem to understand the value of an opinion yourself, if you feel the need to justify defending a ranting cry-baby in a pointless thread.

Good day.

[DarkAmbient]

You're right about the world design, OP. It's designed to slow you down so that their "time played" metric looks good on the investor reports, nothing more.

Just look at the difference between Legion zones and Wrath zones. Northrend had natural open spaces that were pleasant to navigate. Now it's a clusterfuck of annoying topography and mobs all over the place.

[Deleted]

From another thread on US Forums:

Argus doesn't feel like the demon homeworld, it feels like a tiny pointless outpost. Where are the legions of war machines, the great demonic factories, the endless shipyards, the dark and twisted cities? Even Outland felt more like a demonic homeworld than Argus does.

Given that our invasion point is supposed to be at the heart of their empire, it's all so pathetically small-scale that it doesn't feel remotely convincing or threatening, outside of the non-lore element of potentially being dazed by masses of trash mobs that apparently have nothing better to do than stand around waiting to daze people.

I mean, Blizzard could have covered this element by writing a major unexpected twist where it turns out that the Legion are mostly bluff and bluster, and all this time have just been pretending to be more powerful than they really are, but the reality is that the lifeless "videogamey" feel of Argus is simply a matter of slack design.

Similarly, I would have loved it if the native faction we were meant to help hadn't been yet more Broken, but a group of demons in open rebellion against the Legion instead as a result of witnessing their continual losses. There were a lot of interesting places Blizzard could have taken the Argus story, but they seem to be more interested in just steamrolling ahead to the end of the expansion via the most familiar, well-trodden, almost worn-out routes.

*****

This is an incredibly accurate description of how lackluster the Legion homeworld is. It feels rushed, and as stated before, Argus could have been its own expansion. But instead of making this a long and epic expansion, they are rushing to meet timetables to release the next one, not bothering to actually put effort into making a really great game anymore. Do they ever wonder why so many of the core players have such high regard for BC? Because they focused on content, not busy work, achievements and collectibles.

[Deleted]

Apparently hearing the truth makes white knights angry. That's your fucking problem.

The simple fact is that Blizzard (and gaming industry in general) doesn't have the imperative of being answerable to unhappy customers like other industries/products do that refund purchase price after say, 30 days, to keep them honest. Playing free but highly restricted to level 20 doesn't count for shit. That's why Blizz can change the game radically at will and not be held to account because they've already gotten your money.

It's a nice gig if you can get it - only for those companies. But for paying customers it's a rip off.

You know what's moronic and retarded? People that grind constantly against a .xx% chance at getting something and never get it, but keep paying money to chase it. Enjoy your endless RNG Argus/Netherlight Crucible slot machine.

No, its not moronic to farm something that is ".xx%" chance to drop (wtf is even .xx% anyway?!). For example I got the sha of anger mount last week. And that made me happy. Is it stupid to be happy over few pixels? Maybe, but sometimes I watch stupid romantic films with my girlfriend. That makes her happy. Is it stupid to cry of joy watching pixels on the tv? Maybe. But who are you to judge?
The 13euro I pay to play my favorite game is about .xx% of the money I make every day, so why not, if im having fun.

If you are not having fun - quit the game, quit complaining, do something else that you enjoy, simple as that.
Buy yourself a basketball ball, go play basketball. You dont like it - go back to the store in the next 20 days and say "I didnt liked it, can I have my money back".

Then, I mean when people stop making fun of you, go do something else you enjoy. Buy a football ball (or handegg, if is your thing), try again. Go ask your money back, if you dont like it.

One day maybe you will find something you like. Until then - quit complaining and try something else.

done with you.

[Thorbalt]

Oh it's you again. Maybe start a facebook-group with your friend Jaylock.
As a company who makes things for entertainment (and as with any succesful business) you have to listen to customers and make changes to reduce the amount of unsatisfied ones (while also getting new ones).
Any business who refuses to improve and actually listen to what the customer 'desires' is doomed to fail eventually and shoot itself in the foot.
I'm not saying the customer is always right, but there's glaring issues ever since the release of Legion (Legendaries & AP being one) which can't be denied since their Official Forums keep getting new posts regarding it (as an example).
Ofcourse you can say it's only a minority who are dissatisfied with the game (or aspects of it) but those people are also customers and telling them to 'quit if you don't like it' is the opposite of what one should do.
Finding a middle ground between listening to customers and still do your own thing isn't easy (and if it would we wouldn't still have new posts popping up everyday (or videos). I'm not here to show a solution, but your toxic behavior is just as bad as those who complain about the game.

its hilarious how stupid you are. Because you are clearly laciking a brain in your solid bone skull, let me enlighten you: the top 10 most hated companies are in no danger of going out of business...what makes you think a handful of whiny brats will make a company go down?

[Caolela]

No, its not moronic to farm something that is ".xx%" chance to drop (wtf is even .xx% anyway?!). For example I got the sha of anger mount last week. And that made me happy. Is it stupid to be happy over few pixels? Maybe, but sometimes I watch stupid romantic films with my girlfriend. That makes her happy. Is it stupid to cry of joy watching pixels on the tv? Maybe. But who are you to judge?
The 13euro I pay to play my favorite game is about .xx% of the money I make every day, so why not, if im having fun.

If you are not having fun - quit the game, quit complaining, do something else that you enjoy, simple as that.
Buy yourself a basketball ball, go play basketball. You dont like it - go back to the store in the next 20 days and say "I didnt liked it, can I have my money back".

Then, I mean when people stop making fun of you, go do something else you enjoy. Buy a football ball (or handegg, if is your thing), try again. Go ask your money back, if you dont like it.

One day maybe you will find something you like. Until then - quit complaining and try something else.

done with you.

Troglodytes think it's fun to fling shit at their cave walls all day too.

Most items that I buy I can try for a reasonable time and return if unsatisfied, as long as it's in original packaging and saleable condition. The company takes the hit on that, if any, and it's part of their overhead, but it keeps them aware of customer's needs and helps create better value for customers.

Pixels are even easier to "return" (just disable that copy's serial #) and no loss to the company except the lost sale. Blizz won't though because they know they'd lose half of their customers overnight.

[Deleted]

Troglodytes think it's fun to fling shit at their cave walls all day too.

Most items that I buy I can try for a reasonable time and return if unsatisfied, as long as it's in original packaging and saleable condition. The company takes the hit on that, if any, and it's part of their overhead, but it keeps them aware of customer's needs and helps create better value for customers.

Pixels are even easier to "return" (just disable that copy's serial #) and no loss to the company except the lost sale. Blizz won't though because they know they'd lose half of their customers overnight.

If you really think, that they will actually lose "half of their costumers over night", you are not stupid. You are just a troll, and now, Im really done with you. Go buy yourself something to refund after.

And, this is not true, MOST items you buy you cant refund. And you are a lair. Also, Legion is out for a year now, is a year a reasonable time for you?!

[Emode]

Argus is hugely underwhelming for sure.

[Vaerys]

If you want to get a bit of a grasp of what it would be like to deal with chasms, gorges and the like you should take a horse to the Grand Canyon, or an equivalent in your own country if its not the US, and than just and get the horse to run up and down it from one side to another. You can even try mounting your gryphon and getting it to carry you around in there to give you a bit of perspective. Exploded surfaces aren't designed for manoeuvrability. Its just not what happens.

And I would never in a million years choose this as my preferred activity, as it is no fun whatsoever. If I had to choose between navigating an exploded surface full of nooks, crannies, long winding paths full of hostile creatures, and replacing that entire concept with something less "realistic" but more fun, I would replace the concept instantly.

If implementing your lore in a game means you have to make a tedious annoying game, then you have made a terrible decision.

[Silver Forte]

I was speaking for everyone BUT you - I'll be sure to point that out next time. You're welcome.

You don't speak for everyone regardless of what you may think.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

And I would never in a million years choose this as my preferred activity, as it is no fun whatsoever. If I had to choose between navigating an exploded surface full of nooks, crannies, long winding paths full of hostile creatures, and replacing that entire concept with something less "realistic" but more fun, I would replace the concept instantly.

If implementing your lore in a game means you have to make a tedious annoying game, then you have made a terrible decision.

Except most of us don't find it tedious or annoying. Most of us would find it tedious if everything in the game was flat, boring, and convenient. I mean, we could sip cocktails in Dalaran while the mobs lined up to bring us loot, but that would get old (for most of us). Seriously, if you eschew challenge of any kind, don't like exploring, don't enjoy having to figure stuff out... What do you want your game to be like?

- - - Updated - - -

Argus is hugely underwhelming for sure.

Main changes I would make are to make it feel more dangerous. Yes, we should have a chance to avoid flying patrols, but we should have to watch for them rather than get a PA announcement. The new fel reaver looks awesome, but only way anyone will get surprised on it's very predictable track is... if they go afk while standing there? It should wander more and be less predictable, like the originals. I think some wandering elites on bat mounts would be good too.

If we can wander an enemy planet without our heads on swivels, something feels wrong about that.

[Nyel]

Except most of us don't find it tedious or annoying.

I pretty much doubt that. The reception for 7.3 has been mixed at best, rather being overall negative than positive (just read every possible WoW forum). And no, there are not more negative people in forums than positive. People that criticize are as often in forums as people that praise WoW so please don't bring up the argument that people who like to complain are using forums more often, it's just not true.

[Kazuchika]

Argus feels like I'm doing dailies with a different backdrop that just happened to come with like 45 min of actual things to do at the start.

Feels exactly like the Broken Shore. Here's something to entertain you for the first hour on patch day and then see ya next week!