Already sick of Argus

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

I pretty much doubt that. The reception for 7.3 has been mixed at best, rather being overall negative than positive (just read every possible WoW forum). And no, there are not more negative people in forums than positive. People that criticize are as often in forums as people that praise WoW so please don't bring up the argument that people who like to complain are using forums more often, it's just not true.

You are assuming the forums represent the majority of opinions. In my experience, the forums are mostly full of whiners who bitch about any change Blizz makes. Most of the players I talk to in game, including guild mates in a large guild, never visit forums and laugh when I tell them what people are complaining about.

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Argus feels like I'm doing dailies with a different backdrop that just happened to come with like 45 min of actual things to do at the start.

Feels exactly like the Broken Shore. Here's something to entertain you for the first hour on patch day and then see ya next week!

Questing feels pretty similar to when we were in our starter zones at level 1-10. Poker feels pretty much like poker always has. So does chess. It's the nature of the game. If we get bored, we have the option (highly recommended!) to switch to a different game for a while. No one ever said WoW has to be 24/7.

[Kazuchika]

I never said it had to be 24/7 but the fact you spend months developing content that ends up being literally 3 hours worth of content over the span of a month shows how absolutely creatively bankrupt you are as a dev team.

[Nyel]

You are assuming the forums represent the majority of opinions. In my experience, the forums are mostly full of whiners who bitch about any change Blizz makes. Most of the players I talk to in game, including guild mates in a large guild, never visit forums and laugh when I tell them what people are complaining about.

What did I say?

And no, there are not more negative people in forums than positive. People that criticize are as often in forums as people that praise WoW so please don't bring up the argument that people who like to complain are using forums more often, it's just not true.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

What did I say?

I read what you said but I disagree.

[Vaerys]

Except most of us don't find it tedious or annoying. Most of us would find it tedious if everything in the game was flat, boring, and convenient. I mean, we could sip cocktails in Dalaran while the mobs lined up to bring us loot, but that would get old (for most of us). Seriously, if you eschew challenge of any kind, don't like exploring, don't enjoy having to figure stuff out... What do you want your game to be like?

I have just about had it with the false dilemmas being thrown about here, as if the only alternative to a convoluted maze crammed with hostiles is a featureless plain with only a mailbox with piles of free loot in it.

I've played WoW since forever, and zone design has been mostly fantastic. There has never been a featureless plain, ever. Even the so-called examples of flat, boring areas had quest hubs, landmarks, and things to do, and at least served to provide some variety in the world. Lately though, they have really started going overboard with the rugged terrain, and it's getting old.

I want my game to have variety, with challenges, but with a low level of arbitrary frustration. I liked the way they implemented the named rares in Pandaria. They had special abilities based on their type, and you had to account for each one or else you would die. They were difficult at the beginning of the expansion, but became far easier, even trivial, once you got some gear. Later in the expansion, the various objectives in the Timeless Isle followed a similar pattern. Some of them were tricky to find, requiring thorough exploration. Some were difficult to survive if you made errors. Some required significant skill and patience. Some were a giant hassle that you only wanted to do once, but once it was done, you didn't have to do it again. I didn't get the persistent feeling of annoyance that I currently get on Argus. Plus, the place was pretty. Now, I know Argus is supposed to be a wasteland, but it's not the appearance that bothers me (except for when it is difficult to determine depth of field because of a flat color palette, causing you to fall into a hidden crack)

Also, there was at least some reward from killing trash, in the form of coins, random armor tokens, and lesser charms.

I want my challenges interesting, and even tedious activity to not be completely pointless, and Argus isn't delivering that. Hordes of worthless adds and rugged terrain aren't fun to me, but that's what I'm enduring in the hope that it gets better.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

I have just about had it with the false dilemmas being thrown about here, as if the only alternative to a convoluted maze crammed with hostiles is a featureless plain with only a mailbox with piles of free loot in it.

I've played WoW since forever, and zone design has been mostly fantastic. There has never been a featureless plain, ever. Even the so-called examples of flat, boring areas had quest hubs, landmarks, and things to do, and at least served to provide some variety in the world. Lately though, they have really started going overboard with the rugged terrain, and it's getting old.

I want my game to have variety, with challenges, but with a low level of arbitrary frustration. I liked the way they implemented the named rares in Pandaria. They had special abilities based on their type, and you had to account for each one or else you would die. They were difficult at the beginning of the expansion, but became far easier, even trivial, once you got some gear. Later in the expansion, the various objectives in the Timeless Isle followed a similar pattern. Some of them were tricky to find, requiring thorough exploration. Some were difficult to survive if you made errors. Some required significant skill and patience. Some were a giant hassle that you only wanted to do once, but once it was done, you didn't have to do it again. I didn't get the persistent feeling of annoyance that I currently get on Argus. Plus, the place was pretty. Now, I know Argus is supposed to be a wasteland, but it's not the appearance that bothers me (except for when it is difficult to determine depth of field because of a flat color palette, causing you to fall into a hidden crack)

Also, there was at least some reward from killing trash, in the form of coins, random armor tokens, and lesser charms.

I want my challenges interesting, and even tedious activity to not be completely pointless, and Argus isn't delivering that. Hordes of worthless adds and rugged terrain aren't fun to me, but that's what I'm enduring in the hope that it gets better.

I do wish the mobs were more menacing. I wish they were out looking for us, patrolling, rather than sitting in place.

[Vaerys]

I do wish the mobs were more menacing. I wish they were out looking for us, patrolling, rather than sitting in place.

Now this could be interesting. In another thread, I suggested that killing demons build a stacking buff that reduced your aggro range, thus making it worth killing some demons, but not being a persistent annoyance. This is assuming that mob density remains the same.

If the mob density were reduced, one way to replace the tedious challenge with an interesting one might be for demon killing to build a stacking buff that caused you to attract the attention of named NPCs that would seek you out. The more stacks you get, the stronger the NPC, and the better the reward for defeating it.

[Deleted]

They're inspired by Dark Souls level design but they forgot that the vast majority of their playerbase is the opposite of the Dark Souls target audience.

Wait, what?, where?, are you fukin serious?.
I do love dark souls series, i have played the three games like possesed, i am not playing wow anymore, one of the reasons is this maze like terrain design that i find disgusting, and you say that i should love this terrain?, ok there must be something terrible wrong here, because those changes made to attract DS fans are not working, AT ALL.
Do you think that in DS games when you go through difficult terrain you do get the rewards you get in wow for doing so?

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definitely inspired by dark souls. screw the whiners, i'm glad the devs have the balls to up the ante in their level design

What?, OMG is this like a plague or what?
Just a little thing then, next time you do try to mimic another RPG mechanic, please for god sake, mimic the Quality of the rewards, it might be important

[oathy]

the colour pallets they have used are really bad.
Just glad this never was its own expansion. understand completely its a world that's
been ripped apart by the legion. but couldn't they have varied the colours just a bit? after 20 mins
my head is splitting.

[Aggrophobic]

the colour pallets they have used are really bad.
Just glad this never was its own expansion. understand completely its a world that's
been ripped apart by the legion. but couldn't they have varied the colours just a bit? after 20 mins
my head is splitting.

They actually said they understood this back in HFC but apparently not.

[Caolela]

Poker feels pretty much like poker always has. So does chess. It's the nature of the game. If we get bored, we have the option (highly recommended!) to switch to a different game for a while. No one ever said WoW has to be 24/7.

It's not "the nature of the game" to keep changing the rules or rewards, or how one wins a game of poker or chess - especially when those changes benefit mainly the company that produces the games. The other difference is you don't have to keep paying a sub to play a game of either. You buy the card deck or chess set once and play as much as you want.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

It's not "the nature of the game" to keep changing the rules or rewards, or how one wins a game of poker or chess - especially when those changes benefit mainly the company that produces the games. The other difference is you don't have to keep paying a sub to play a game of either. You buy the card deck or chess set once and play as much as you want.

We do quests, run dungeons, and eventually some of us raid. Sometimes we farm stuff. Anyone expecting that to change? In 8.0 or anytime for as long as there is WoW? The rest is just details, imho.

[Mojo03]

Ya I've never really understood why they choose such poor color palettes for so many things. (armor sets, environments, architecture)

Things can be dark and demonic with lime green fel everywhere and still be visually appealing.

Weird that they bend everything to conform to gameplay (contrived lore), but won't bend color palettes to be more visually appealing.

They feel like a B-C studio with AAA production values. Typically corporate work I suppose.

[Aggrophobic]

The problem for me, and I think a few people here, is there's no raiding game that I know of that can compete with WoW's raid scene. If there was a game stripped of everything but raiding I'd play it because I wouldn't have to deal with WoW's chores. For a while I did the chores but recently I've been spending more and more time unsubbed because the chores keep getting worse.

To me the world was a playground where I learned how to play on my own. I know how to play now, there's no challenge there except that Blizz seems to have decided that making it annoying = challenge.

I don't want to come home from a day at work and do WoW chores.

Yeah, pretty much.
Some world content is fine but they are really trying too hard while also trying to make the damned thing mandatory for everyone to do.

[Tackhisis]

Enjoy it while it lasts - only 14 months left!

[Coffeexbean]

oh look another whiner about flying. Flying is the one of the key features that ruined the MMORPG WoW and turned it into a mediocre single player pls cut that shit out and ask for something beneficial like realm merges over cross realm

[CaptainV]

oh look another whiner about flying. Flying is the one of the key features that ruined the MMORPG WoW and turned it into a mediocre single player pls cut that shit out and ask for something beneficial like realm merges over cross realm

Considering TBC is a much loved expansion by fucking millions that *introduced* flying and was loved as being some super immersive, hardcore game, thats funny.

Considering in Wrath you NEEDED flying to even ENTER two of the raids, thats still funny.

The problem is not FLYING and Flying did NOT ruin the game, Flying enhanced it dramatically, with a new verticality element that allowed us to travel to floating islands we could not otherwise reach without it.

Instead, we are plagued by a lack of imagination from devs to use flying in interesting ways, like high mountains or impossibly untraversable sea distances without it.

[Aggrophobic]

oh look another whiner about flying. Flying is the one of the key features that ruined the MMORPG WoW and turned it into a mediocre single player pls cut that shit out and ask for something beneficial like realm merges over cross realm

Seeing how flying was a core feature in the expansions that did really well, yeah it's a big deal.

[Evangeliste]

Considering TBC is a much loved expansion by fucking millions that *introduced* flying and was loved as being some super immersive, hardcore game, thats funny.

Considering in Wrath you NEEDED flying to even ENTER two of the raids, thats still funny.

The problem is not FLYING and Flying did NOT ruin the game, Flying enhanced it dramatically, with a new verticality element that allowed us to travel to floating islands we could not otherwise reach without it.

Instead, we are plagued by a lack of imagination from devs to use flying in interesting ways, like high mountains or impossibly untraversable sea distances without it.

Although I agree with you in it's adornation when it first came, you also pointed out that it's only ever served as a tool. It was never an enhancement as you claim, you don't have like fun levels or mini-games that directly need flying, you don't have additional enjoyment because you fly, it's just a simple convenience that negates annoyances like more combat than you want, makes questing easier and faster, gets you to the next quest without terrain slowing you, it allows you to travel to the raid.

It's only been a tool to find access to further content, it acted a gating system without people even knowing it. You can't get to Tempest Keep or set dungeons by it without flying. Exactly like Ulduar for Wrath.
Problem is, people have now felt it should be a consistent tool from the day they are max level, and with years of it being just a purchase, the idea to earning it like ground mounts in the old days, questlines today, class mount campaigns for example or progressing through levelling generally is a no-no.
You had loaned reins in Storm Peaks which acted the same way in TBC, it was help you to traverse places like Netherstorm which was a shit place to travel by foot. But they were only restrained to Storm Peaks. They didn't give you benefit anywhere else. It was to help you travel in the mountains, there was no quest or anything that made you to use that beyond getting somewhere.
Both TBC and Wrath still required you to purchase flying to go to all zones and areas in them.

They copied TBC with it being a travelling tool, transferring it to a levelling zone later on but still had a price tag, that was a gating system in itself. You could go give a quick sense of flying and being meaningful because you levelled in Storm Peaks but that really got old fast and you know it, but even then you could also go to Icecrown instead and not even get the loaned reins.

You claim they lack imagination I assume nowadays, yet from TBC they provided it in the least imaginative thing, you originally bought a fucking license from a vendor. And this occured till Pandaria several different ones for different zones. Now that we are back to earning it once again and actually being imaginative like in obtaining class mounts, its a bad thing and lacks imagination. It's a double standard to it's finest.
What's funny is that the claimant of flying being worthwhile and adds to the game, yet those Kirin Tor dailies where you fly from area to area by using the fel glide like Demon Hunters, people hated them but now with flying they simply just fly into the end ring. That's exactly what flying is about in WoW.

[Mumba]

My biggest issue with Argus is that it's too effin' dark. I can't "enjoy the scenery" on my mount if everything is coloured in fifty shades of brown and grey.