Do you think there is any chance they ever bring 10m raiding back?

[I Push Buttons]

Just curious.

I haven't raided anything but pugs since WoD because I just can't stand large raid groups. And every guild, even the lowliest casual guilds who will never set foot in Mythic, are "recruiting for our mythic group" and put together huge as fuck rosters.

Do you think as the game continues to die and there are less and less players they will bring back 10 man?

I sure as shit hope so.

[Elbob]

don't think so for balance reasons. Why the resistance to 20 man? (more less why do you hate large grps? why is 20 SO much worse then 10)

[Deleted]

I sure hope not

[Yelmurc]

You can 10 man raid, just not in mythic. Flex raiding makes this possible.

[SoulForge]

don't think so for balance reasons. Why the resistance to 20 man? (more less why do you hate large grps? why is 20 SO much worse then 10)

Because maintaining 20 is a logistical nightmare.

[I Push Buttons]

don't think so for balance reasons. Why the resistance to 20 man?

Started playing at the end of Wrath, joined a 10 man raiding guild, raided with them and full cleared 10 heroic all the way through Siege of Orgimmar, most of them quit when Mythic came about.

Its what I started with and did for the entirety of my time with this game. I just hate large groups. I feel like my own individual effort is irrelevant, I am just a cog in the machine at that size group. Where with 10 man everyone had to pull their weight. Plus it was much more personal... I knew everyone in my group, I still play other game and shit with most of them... It was very tight-knit.

You can 10 man raid, just not in mythic. Flex raiding makes this possible.

No one does it though. When I try to put together groups, usually it fails before it even begins because no one wants to join a group with one person in it. And when I can get 10 and stop inviting people, most of the time they are like "WHY DON'T YOU GET 15!?!?" And then leave when I say I am just going with 10...

I have only ever been able to put together like half a dozen groups with ten people... Across ALL of WoD and Legion so far.

[xfreeder]

No.
10 chars

[Soisoisoi]

Doubt it. Never thought I'd say it, but I sure hope we get it back! Fuck the perfect tuning and the fighting between 10vs25, couldn't give a shit as long as it's in the same area as the other difficulty.

Vicious cycle of Roster issues sucks; not enough raiders = no progress, no progress = no (decent) recruits. Since ToS our guild killed KJ HC and has had enough for ONE night on Mythic so far. Every recruit has basically just joined as a free ride to KJ and ends up being sub-par or we lose someone else due to boredom or some other shit in the process.

I miss the days of picking raiders for the fight/night and making people work for their spot instead of invite everyone 'cos there isn't a raid otherwise. It's currently a raider-picks-guild situation now, not the other way around.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

Because maintaining 20 is a logistical nightmare.

No. You say that because you are in a guild that did not have the right mentality from the get-go.

25 man (and 40 man for that matter) was the progression difficulty for what, 5 years?

If you are finding it a "logistical nightmare" your guild's leadership is simply lacking.
It is harder to organize and maintain for sure, but nothing that should seem daunting.

I've been leading the same guild since mid wrath and if they ever took away large group raiding I would probably stop raiding all together.

Raiding with 10 just does not feel the same.

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Started playing at the end of Wrath, joined a 10 man raiding guild, raided with them and full cleared 10 heroic all the way through Siege of Orgimmar, most of them quit when Mythic came about.

Its what I started with and did for the entirety of my time with this game. I just hate large groups. I feel like my own individual effort is irrelevant, I am just a cog in the machine at that size group. Where with 10 man everyone had to pull their weight. Plus it was much more personal... I knew everyone in my group, I still play other game and shit with most of them... It was very tight-knit.



No one does it though. When I try to put together groups, usually it fails before it even begins because no one wants to join a group with one person in it. And when I can get 10 and stop inviting people, most of the time they are like "WHY DON'T YOU GET 15!?!?" And then leave when I say I am just going with 10...

I have only ever been able to put together like half a dozen groups with ten people... Across ALL of WoD and Legion so far.

Play the game with as many people as is possible. This is how its meant to be. You should not WANT to do 10 man raiding in flex size. I can understand in Mythic, but when you are pugging, why would you worry?

[Soisoisoi]

I've been leading the same guild since mid wrath and if they ever took away large group raiding I would probably stop raiding all together.

Raiding with 10 just does not feel the same.

I completely agree raiding with 10 doesn't feel the same. But not feeling the same sure beats the hell out of not raiding at all because you simply can't get enough players (see my post above yours). Also I don't think anyone said take away large group raiding. I'd be happy to have 10 and 25 back, or 10/20, 15/30, etc, whichever variation fits - as long as there is an option and it's relatively the same.

[ls-]

I completely agree raiding with 10 doesn't feel the same. But not feeling the same sure beats the hell out of not raiding at all because you simply can't get enough players (see my post above yours). Also I don't think anyone said take away large group raiding. I'd be happy to have 10 and 25 back, or 10/20, 15/30, etc, whichever variation fits - as long as there is an option and it's relatively the same.

It's never relatively the same, for the majority if its lifespan 10HC raiding was a joke. There's only a handful of encounters that were on par or even more difficult than 25ppl versions of them.

And when it comes to M raiding it's a big problem.

[I Push Buttons]

It's never relatively the same, for the majority if its lifespan 10HC raiding was a joke. There's only a handful of encounters that were on par or even more difficult than 25ppl versions of them.

And when it comes to M raiding it's a big problem.

Are you serious?

25H was a joke... You could literally have 3+ people die and still easily complete most encounters. If even one person went down in 10H it was pretty much a wipe...

The only thing hard about 25H was maintaining a roster. And that was a guild's own choice.

[Alvito]

don't think so for balance reasons. Why the resistance to 20 man? (more less why do you hate large grps? why is 20 SO much worse then 10)

On several servers 20 is just impossible. Go check wowprogress there are a shocking number of servers without a single mythic kill. I know the server I was on in MoP had many guild that had full cleared SoO in heroic, which was mythic then, and as soon as the cap bumped to 20 1 guild survived that then they left the server. Having a raid on farm only to all of a sudden need twice as many and get locked out of content as a result sucks.

[Balir]

Yes, but with a twist. Don't ask me how, but I reckon there will be some circumstance where you have 10 horde, 10 alliance, both raiding the same dungeon, can see each other, but each are apart to do certain bosses/objectives in the raid, so the other can faction progress, so they in turn can progress until they come together for the last two bosses.
A scenario where the horde reach a proper boss, with a proper room and full fight mechanics (that could also affect the other faction), Horde have to kill boss to open a door, meanwhile the alliance is in a room/passage having to fight off wave, after wave, after wave of various level mobs until the door opens. Alliance dies, mobs enter room where Horde are, that then activates a "Hard mode" for Horde. Alliance once rezzed has to fight back to door to make it easier for Horde. Horde wipes, boss opens door and starts on the Alliance for their hard mode. Note: whatever faction wins during a Hardmode - gets the better ilvl gear.

But, meh, it would probably be too complicated to programme and there would definitely be no LFR.

I could really make the bosses where they fight together a hard mode by simply having compulsory pvp flags on. With aoe damage affecting opposition players too.

[Temp name]

Because maintaining 20 is a logistical nightmare.

I've had more 10 man guilds fall apart than 20/25man guilds

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On several servers 20 is just impossible. Go check wowprogress there are a shocking number of servers without a single mythic kill. I know the server I was on in MoP had many guild that had full cleared SoO in heroic, which was mythic then, and as soon as the cap bumped to 20 1 guild survived that then they left the server. Having a raid on farm only to all of a sudden need twice as many and get locked out of content as a result sucks.

It wasn't "all of a sudden". They had plenty of time to either recruit or just merge with another guild that had the same progression, or close to it.

[Deleted]

Are you serious?

25H was a joke... You could literally have 3+ people die and still easily complete most encounters. If even one person went down in 10H it was pretty much a wipe...

The only thing hard about 25H was maintaining a roster. And that was a guild's own choice.

Actually, objectively, 10H was much easier overall. I can give you examples of encounters that were loot pinatas in 10 manH and while you could rez 3 people in 25(and 1 in 10), you don't classify encounter difficulty based on available CRs. The 2 biggest factors that made 10m H so much easier was Vengeance and dps requirements being lower, but many encounters were easier simply because they had far fewer mechanics happen. If you prefer, we can go encounter by encounter from the start of 10H to SoO.

If Blizzard would reintroduce 10 man M raiding now, it would probably collapse most(if not all) 20 man structures. When they added it in WOTLK/Cataclysm, there was still a sense of identity for guilds(and a question of prestige), but now I just can't see who would raid the higher number format.

[Mcbenchpress]

Thats the #1 thing I want out of the next expansion. I would love for real proper 10m progression to come back. Not sure why Blizzard ever got rid of it in the first place, it was easily the more popular raiding format.

[I Push Buttons]

Actually, objectively, 10H was much easier overall. I can give you examples of encounters that were loot pinatas in 10 manH and while you could rez 3 people in 25(and 1 in 10), you don't classify encounter difficulty based on available CRs. The 2 biggest factors that made 10m H so much easier was Vengeance and dps requirements being lower, but many encounters were easier simply because they had far fewer mechanics happen. If you prefer, we can go encounter by encounter from the start of 10H to SoO.

If Blizzard would reintroduce 10 man M raiding now, it would probably collapse most(if not all) 20 man structures. When they added it in WOTLK/Cataclysm, there was still a sense of identity for guilds(and a question of prestige), but now I just can't see who would raid the higher number format.

Because its shittier.

EDIT:
Also Vengeance only existed for one expansion and it only really got out of hand in one raid, SoO... I will admit that much. I solo'd the entire second phase of Galakras heroic on my prot pally... So yeah, vengeance was busted at the end.

But it wasn't like that the whole expansion.

[ScrubRouge]

Just curious.

I haven't raided anything but pugs since WoD because I just can't stand large raid groups. And every guild, even the lowliest casual guilds who will never set foot in Mythic, are "recruiting for our mythic group" and put together huge as fuck rosters.

Do you think as the game continues to die and there are less and less players they will bring back 10 man?

I sure as shit hope so.

Not every guild is raiding with large rosters. But I do see your point. If you look around im sure you will be able to find some casual raiding guild that has a small grouping. I do know of some that likes to run with 10-15 in their roster so people can come and go with a little bit of flexibility. Obviously you wont expect any amazing prog (their end goal of each raid tier is Heroic full clear after all), but I'm sure fun can be had with them.

[ls-]

Are you serious?

The only thing hard about 25H was maintaining a roster. And that was a guild's own choice.

WF race existed only in 25HC because 10ppl was almost always irrelevant. 10ppl was destroyed by 25ppl guilds during weekend raids.

25H was a joke... You could literally have 3+ people die and still easily complete most encounters. If even one person went down in 10H it was pretty much a wipe...

Wut? Got it, you're just trolling/baiting... What a waste of time...