Homeless evacuated against their will ahead of hurricane Irma. Right or Wrong?

[Chaosbubba]

Yeah, just let them die. That is clearly the moral choice.

Do you know how many homeless people/people of war/PEOPLE IN GENERAL die everyday that you don' give 2 shits about because you don't know they died? The only reason this is even an issue is because it was brought up in a forum... you don't care, you care about making yourself look good here.

You should never make someone do anything against there will, mental instability or not.

[nyc81991]

Oh no, 3 days, how awful. I was drunk once and they kept me for 12 hours. So? They probably were in a state where that was justifiable. That is normal. If people are really crazy they get institutionalized forever. Is this new to you?

Interesting how you go from saying people weren't having their freedom taken away to comparing your drunk 12 hours to 3 days in an over crowded mental institution and assuming their mental state and other nonsense that has nothing to do with anything of substance to the conversation.

You aren't even trying to have an intellectual conversation here, so it's pointless to keep talking to you.

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Do you know how many homeless people/people of war/PEOPLE IN GENERAL die everyday that you don' give 2 shits about because you don't know they died? The only reason this is even an issue is because it was brought up in a forum... you don't care, you care about making yourself look good here.

You should never make someone do anything against there will, mental instability or not.

That's the ironic part, people act like they care so much but are more than happy to ignore all of the other people, including those in their own communities they could be helping but aren't. They also likely wouldn't support taking on more personal taxes to help homeless people either.

[alt-ithist]

You do understand you talking about human beings, correct?

Again, Removing the freedom of people without them being seriously mentally ill or being a threat to others is not moral at all.

It's not a matter of "leaving" anyone. It's a matter of people being able to make their own decisions. Unless you are saying people don't have the right to freedom anymore?

There is a major difference between offering help and FORCING someone to do something.

Removing freedom from those in danger of committing suicide isn't new. We remove freedom from those who are a danger to others and themselves, morally and possibly legally obligated to do so. When some idiot is jumping off the roof and the fireman catch them with the air bag or some policeman drag him off the ledge, they just took away his freedom to kill himself, I'm ok with that.

[Sky High]

You do understand you talking about human beings, correct?

Again, Removing the freedom of people without them being seriously mentally ill or being a threat to others is not moral at all.

It's not a matter of "leaving" anyone. It's a matter of people being able to make their own decisions. Unless you are saying people don't have the right to freedom anymore?

There is a major difference between offering help and FORCING someone to do something.

"Personal freedom" and morals don't go together, because the logical conclusion to "personal freedom" is bereft of morals and ethics. This is a typical "I want my cake and I wanna eat it!" Situation you're presenting. I want people to be safe but I also want them to be able to make stupid choices that could get them killed!

[Cwimge]

It's only being done because the powers that be can't get away with making no effort, and because human corpse recovery is something they'd rather not add to by leaving hobo bodies everywhere

[Deleted]

Do you know how many homeless people/people of war/PEOPLE IN GENERAL die everyday that you don' give 2 shits about because you don't know they died? The only reason this is even an issue is because it was brought up in a forum... you don't care, you care about making yourself look good here.

You should never make someone do anything against there will, mental instability or not.

Yeah you should never save a person's life against their will, even if that person is completely incapable of understanding what's going. Next time I see a drunk guy in the way of a coming train, and I yell to him to get out of the way because the train will hit him otherwise, if he remains there, I'll just shrug my shoulders and keep walking. I guess he wants to die. Who am I to deny him his wish. But what I should in no way do is drag him off the tracks and call the police so they can detain him for a couple of hours and check if he is mentally stable enough to be among other people. That's just what a cruel, immoral person would do. I'd be literally taking his freedom away.

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Interesting how you go from saying people weren't having their freedom taken away to comparing your drunk 12 hours to 3 days in an over crowded mental institution and assuming their mental state and other nonsense that has nothing to do with anything of substance to the conversation.

You aren't even trying to have an intellectual conversation here, so it's pointless to keep talking to you.

If they refuse to get out of the area, that is enough reason to question their mental stability.

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That's the ironic part, people act like they care so much but are more than happy to ignore all of the other people, including those in their own communities they could be helping but aren't. They also likely wouldn't support taking on more personal taxes to help homeless people either.

How do you know whether we're helping people or not? I help people when they ask me for help. But when it comes to homeless people, a lot of them are homeless because they want to be. My father was homeless for 7-8 years. A woman got him off the street. Got him an apartment. Basically arranged it so that he would never have to work again. Then he messed it up and left his apartment, he lost it eventually and he went to some other city without telling us or the lady who got him off the street. Homeless people are often fucked up and they often reject the help that you offer them. But that doesn't mean that you should leave them out in a hurricane. The people who say "if they don't wanna leave, fuck'em, just leave them there to die" are most likely the kind of people that don't give a shit about homeless people. You're projecting.

[Fencers]

Yes. People dying in the streets, literal & figurative, is a public concern. If you mean to live in a society individualism only goers so far. Nothing supersedes the greater welfare of the society.

[Hashtronaut]

People living on the street often have mental health issues, so yes you should bring them to safety even if they claim they dont need/want help.

Yea I get that, and totally see both sides of it. But, what if it was a homeless person without mental illness?

Is not wanting to evacuate ahead of a storm make them automatically deemed "crazy"?

[mickybrighteyes]

Yes it is lol

"Sir that volcano is errupting"
"NO IT ISNT"
"But sir"
"FUCK OFF"

That's mentally unhinged

>.>
you haven't seen teh volcano addicts in Hawaii then

[Deleted]

Yeah.... "most" homeless people just made a few bad turns down the road......

None of them have addiction issues or mental health problems

Who said none of them have, but it's not the majority. And those who have addictions didn't necessarily have them before they came homeless.

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Yes. People dying in the streets, literal & figurative, is a public concern. If you mean to live in a society individualism only goers so far. Nothing supersedes the greater welfare of the society.

Where do you draw the line, I know plenty of things could be changed to benefit society but would rip people from certain choices and freedom.

[quras]

Yes because if they are not moved and they end up being injured then that is just one more person that needs rescued or medical treatment. Straining resources even more.

If they can be moved out then it needs to be done.

[judgementofantonidas]

So simple yet so genius. Hold them in jail for vagrancy until the hurricane passes.

the police have a lot of leeway that the average citizen doesn't always understand.
would it be a waste of resources better used for the actual poiice function? yes. but it could possibly save that person's life.

[Toogoodman]

Let them sign a paper or take a recording of their declaration to forfeit any offer of help and done. Handcuffing is off limits; it is none of your business to help people which wont be helped and moreso not your business to force your help upon them.

On top of this, if they did "force" them out of certain death, people would be virtue signaling how evil the police were for not helping the homeless people during the hurricane.

[Molis]

Coming to SciFi channel soon

Homeless-nado

Come see what happens when a Category 3 hurricane picks up homeless people because they refused assistance to evacuate.

[ranzino]

I did not say mentally unstable. I said mentally unable to comprehend and there are people who are mentally completely fine but they just don't get it.

my bad.
still a dilemma: mentally unable to comprehend is IMHO still far away from "oh, he's so silly we dodt need his consent"; more so for "mentally completely fine but they just don't get it".

[Fencers]

Where do you draw the line

When society ceases to benefit.

[Doomislav]

I wonder if they have this conversation in less prosperous nation. IE are there people in Mexico concerned about the plight of the homeless when the earthquakes or mudslides hit?

[Better]

I see no problem with this. Homeless people in the US often have at least some mental issues, and as a result may not fully understand how much danger they are/were in. There's clearly no malice by the police in this situation, as they're just trying to prevent deaths.

[TirielWoW]

The amount of bums that die here from cold snaps each year is pretty high. Hurricanes are probably a little easier to deal with since they can just wade through the water and take refuge in the upper stories of the nicer abandoned houses if they are crafty enough.

Let the hobos at least try to battle royal that shit out.

This makes me think you haven't ever spent time around a serious hurricane.

[PosPosPos]

This makes me think you haven't ever spent time around a serious hurricane.

Assuming there's any facet of reality a Trump supporter ever spent a substantial amount of time over. Save for internet trolling or trawling through conspiracy sites for fake news that is.