So, can we call Legion a bust for anyone who played Ret, and what's in it for 8.0?

[TS26]

bring back pre legion ret, bring back our spells.

exorcism, hammer of wrath, etc. make us a paladin and not a second rate warrior.

Then i'll play the class.

[Eon Drache]

Honestly with how not OP the divine purpose ring is it just goes to show they could have made Crusade Baseline the entire time and just replaced it with anything that was about even with Divine Purpose. Make Crusade Baseline then give us a talent that gives us the feeling (haste) of Crusade all the time rather than every 30 seconds. Feels so weird going from Crusade haste to normal again. Its like you suddenly developed down syndrome.

[DrMcNinja]

You must keep in mind that ability gutting was impeccably performed for the sole balanced reason of balance.
Therefore, balance was achieved. If retribution had kept all its tools, there would be no balance. And now we have balance.
Noonkins wish they were as balance as retribution is.

Been gone for a long time but it's good to see you're still in a state of utter cynicism

[Morally Grey Storm]

Been gone for a long time but it's good to see you're still in a state of utter cynicism

That's me being reasonable, calm and collected as all feth.
Still, in these dire times I do dearly miss Rghyiume's optimism.

Hey there, by the way
*makes the sign of Aquilla *

[TriHard]

I'd really love to see a ranged paladin spec in 8.0

Hopefully they'll do like Arenanet does and add some more specs to the game instead of new classes.

[Kalisandra]

I've been playing Ret since Vanilla and this is the least fun version of the spec ever, IMHO. I wouldn't complain about a complete gutting and revision or a return to MoP Ret at this point.

I've been playing since mid-BC, maining Ret since the 3.0 pre-LK patch (where we were glorious for 48 hours, and paid for that for the whole of the LK expac), and I agree. Even in the first half of Cata, I stuck with Ret, though it was awful. From the opening of ToS I swapped to my Elemental Shaman. Sure, not much of a DPS improvement expect when the RNG says so, but much more engaging, and there's the choice of several specs, not just "Swap a couple of talents for the AoE fights or completely suck". Also, not being melee is soooo much easier.

- - - Updated - - -

I'd really love to see a ranged paladin spec in 8.0

Ah, but we had our time as a (smoewhat) ranged spec in Cata, MoP, and WoD. The really sad thing about Legion is that while overall I like the expansion, it's making me miss WoD because in WoD my pally didn't feel like junk, and at the time I hated what they'd done to Ret compared to MoP (and MoP Ret wasn't all that compared to mid-late Cata Ret).

[MisterBigglez]

I would like to see a combo playstyle in WoW and I think it would work well for ret..

What I mean by combo is using specific abilities in order to activate a powerful attack which changes depending on what order you pressed your spells. It would be kind of similar to what we have now but not locked into Holy Power or Judgement uptime.

For instance, using what we already have and spells ret used to have, you could have:

Crusader Strike + Blade of Justice + Judgement = Templars Verdict

ST rotation

Hammer of the Righteous + Judgement + Hammer of Righteousness = Divine Storm

AoE rotation

Templars Verdict and Divine Storm share the same button, it just changes depending on the combo

You could also include some buffs to maintain by following a combo

Crusader Strike + Judgement = Inquisition (% holy dmg increase for x seconds)

Avenging Wrath would work the same but would also make it so you can skip combos by pressing the first of the combo which would then activate the finisher

Crusader Strike = Inquisition or Templars Verdict

Hammer of the Righteous = Divine Storm

I don't play ret so this might sound bad but what do you ret mains think?

[Jester Joe]

I don't play ret so this might sound bad but what do you ret mains think?

The closest they've gotten to a system like that is Windwalker Monk and their mastery (Your abilities deal 10% more damage when they are not a repeat of the previous ability.)

It fits them more, and even then, Windwalkers have quite a few gripes I believe also.

So...unsure.

[xxcloud417xx]

I'm seeing a lot of people have issues with Crusade not being baseline and such. I can see the appeal of it but I also think it doesn't solve the issue that I would rather see us become a sustained DPS rather than rely on a burst window.

I just hate the feeling of "Awww yeah. Here comes wings!" And then get targeted by a mechanic and kiss your DPS goodbye. We can't afford to be this shitty outside of Wings, it's not a viable and reliable way to DPS. Our rotation may not have much RNG in it anymore, but we rely on boss RNG to either be fucked or not on meters because of burst windows. Fuck burst windows, they're so stupid and idc if doing fat damage for 30secs feels good. In an 8 to 10 min fight, you have a lot more 1:30min windows where it feels like garbage.

[Wrecktangle]

Rather than post it in here, I made a separate thread for a couple ideas I had. feel free to check it out (I get bored at work sometimes and dick around with this shit).

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...6#post47348196

[Jester Joe]

I'm seeing a lot of people have issues with Crusade not being baseline and such. I can see the appeal of it but I also think it doesn't solve the issue that I would rather see us become a sustained DPS rather than rely on a burst window.

I just hate the feeling of "Awww yeah. Here comes wings!" And then get targeted by a mechanic and kiss your DPS goodbye. We can't afford to be this shitty outside of Wings, it's not a viable and reliable way to DPS. Our rotation may not have much RNG in it anymore, but we rely on boss RNG to either be fucked or not on meters because of burst windows. Fuck burst windows, they're so stupid and idc if doing fat damage for 30secs feels good. In an 8 to 10 min fight, you have a lot more 1:30min windows where it feels like garbage.

Ret has always been this way though with burst. Crusade does amplify it, yes, but I really think if people have an issue with being a burst spec, you might as well reroll something else at this point, since Ret has been about burst since I started playing it at the start of Cata.

[Blackspiral]

My Paladin has given me the most conflicted feelings this expansion. More so with Ret. We were gutted, then copy pasted in Legion with the Arms Warrior Mechanic. We need some skills baseline and returned back so we aren't a cheap Warrior with none of the good parts.
We need a ranged attack again, Judgement is our only one and using that is a waste unless you are in Melee in most cases. Give us back exorcism and Hammer of Wrath. This then makes it so we aren't useless out of melee.
While I would like to see Hammer of the Righteous and Consecration baseline again, at least make Consecration baseline again. Us having to talent for it when it is baseline to other specs makes no sense. Giving us a baseline AOE that doesn't rely on Holy Power gives us some better AOE potential and not have to rely on trinkets for more AOE.
I enjoyed utility like art of war giving free Instant Flash of Lights, or some of the Auras and Blessings we had to give Utility. Though with blizz gutting Buffs I won't count on this returning.
As for Holy, I did get thrown off at first that Holy was using a 2 Hander for their weapon when I'm used to the shield and One hand they had for years. Curious if they will throw Holy into that style more in the future or if they will go back to a one hand and shield set up again.
MY two cents.

[Reith]

Ret has always been this way though with burst. Crusade does amplify it, yes, but I really think if people have an issue with being a burst spec, you might as well reroll something else at this point, since Ret has been about burst since I started playing it at the start of Cata.

Almost no DOTs, either. We used to have Seal of Truth for that, and we used to be able to stack it on multiple enemies, and we used to be able to judge distant targets without a severe damage penalty, and we used to be able to judgment without facing a target, and our ranged holy power generator was 30 yards instead of 12, and on, and on, and on.

[Vintersol]

Ret has always been this way though with burst. Crusade does amplify it, yes, but I really think if people have an issue with being a burst spec, you might as well reroll something else at this point, since Ret has been about burst since I started playing it at the start of Cata.

It's simply bad design if a class is only doing dps if you hit the uber fucking cd and still be middle of the pack (in the best case).

[Deleted]

It's simply bad design if a class is only doing dps if you hit the uber fucking cd and still be middle of the pack (in the best case).

U guyz implying the uber fucking cd which requires 1/4 of the fight tunneling the boss requiring 10 secs to ramp up and leaving 20 secs of praying no relevant mechanic to happen ? Cause i sure have met burst damage even in this expansion from other classes that have half the requirements , allign perfectly with prepots and hero and result in even greater burst.
So plz the excuse of ret being burst damage specc and people asking for Crusade to become baseline since class fantasy and whatever acid/crack/naaru intoxicated background , take a step back watch whats happening around in game, reflect and then edit

[Jester Joe]

Almost no DOTs, either. We used to have Seal of Truth for that, and we used to be able to stack it on multiple enemies, and we used to be able to judge distant targets without a severe damage penalty, and we used to be able to judgment without facing a target, and our ranged holy power generator was 30 yards instead of 12, and on, and on, and on.

I do agree they should do more to make Ret less of a Arms warrior ripoff, but through all those changes, the one constant thing is Ret has been bursty. I don't think asking for that to change is reasonable since it seems like they consider it core to the class.

It's simply bad design if a class is only doing dps if you hit the uber fucking cd and still be middle of the pack (in the best case).

That doesn't mean the issue is with the burst factor, it means the issue is with Blizzard balancing it.

[Morally Grey Storm]

I do agree they should do more to make Ret less of a Arms warrior ripoff, but through all those changes, the one constant thing is Ret has been bursty. I don't think asking for that to change is reasonable since it seems like they consider it core to the class.

Having no dps outside of CD's can be considered "core to the class" ?
And if you apply this agenda onto Ret PvP, what do you get?
Can this be considered a "good job" ?
Can this ... this #fantasy be considered "decent" ?

[Dawon]

Ditched my pally for the first time since start of ICC.. cba anymore... moved to my warrior (which I only used for pvp before) and holy fucking christ of hell what a difference! The dps and all but what really sold me in pve was the movement, I can jump away, soak and come back to KJ before my Rend made 3 ticks ffs... The same with my ret would probably have wasted a good 15sec of dps... WHY should I play something that is outran by a turtle? For me, movement and flow is prio in what I play and that's why my ret is dead and buried... sleep tight old buddy!

[Swampmoose]

Almost no DOTs, either. We used to have Seal of Truth for that, and we used to be able to stack it on multiple enemies, and we used to be able to judge distant targets without a severe damage penalty, and we used to be able to judgment without facing a target, and our ranged holy power generator was 30 yards instead of 12, and on, and on, and on.

I was pretty caught off guard by some of the changes when I picked up Legion a few weeks ago. Seals being the biggest shocker. They have always undergone many changes, from Seal of Fury, to Seal of Blood, to Seal of Truth, but to see them disappear entirely was unexpected. I haven't played long enough yet to tell if I like or dislike the spec yet relative to previous expansions, but I definitely don't like the removal of such iconic parts of the class. Consecration as well.

[Jester Joe]

Having no dps outside of CD's can be considered "core to the class" ?
And if you apply this agenda onto Ret PvP, what do you get?
Can this be considered a "good job" ?
Can this ... this #fantasy be considered "decent" ?

PvP should be balanced completely different than PvE. They're slowly starting to head that way with Honor talents, but they just need to go straight into making it completely different.

Otherwise, yes, there's nothing wrong with being a burst based class. It's when they decided to make the burst too high and the regular output too low, that's an issue. It doesn't change though that Ret is most likely to always be a burst based class.