Teacher Assaults Student For Not Standing During Pledge

[Leadsop]

Well, it clearly bothered you by the mere mention of race, making you unable to focus on anything else. I would say that your attempts to project after the fact are demonstrative of my success.

No, it's not different. It's the case of a much larger person using physical force to coerce another person to submit to his will. I stand by the analogy.

You made the claim "There was ZERO intent to instill fear or cause any sort of harm, let alone distress." Personally, I don't think you can actually back it up. The aggressor was far larger than the child, and used physical force to infringe upon his First Amendment rights.

I challenge you to even begin to back this statement up with any evidence presented in the thread.

Classic deflection away from the main argument. This is how you derail a conversation.

[Machismo]

I challenge you to even begin to back this statement up with any evidence presented in the thread.

Classic deflection away from the main argument. This is how you derail a conversation.

You made the claim: "There was ZERO intent to instill fear or cause any sort of harm, let alone distress."

You get to back it up, not me.

As for you being bothered, you continue to whine about it, so it clearly bothered you. You made that the focal point, just as I thought you would.

Here's some of your quotes to back up my point:

"No sorry, I think you misunderstood - the race comment was in response to the other guy saying "RAWR WHAT IF A LARGE BLACK MAN FORCED YOU ON YOUR KNEES" as if this is a race issue. "

"If it were so "easily deemed assault," the lawsuit would already be announced. It is far different. One has clear intent to inflict harm. And what does race have to do with it? Absolutely nothing, unless you're some shithead from HuffPost."

You'll note, I never said race had anything to do with it.

Now, it's your turn.

[Varitok]

It is not one which most people have to obey ether. So your point about the US having one , is mute. In the case of this thread, the teacher overreacted and should be disciplined.

I'm not saying it is. I am saying it is baffling why there is one to begin with.

[Noradin]

Yes and they're very pleasant and open to questions and discussion.

...Probably also some of the few Christians that don't believe in a Hell. You'd be surprised how many arguments I've gotten into with people over that concept, basically noting that the Bible never directly refers to such but rather they've seemingly taken multiple references to a fiery destruction as some sort of literal plane of existence.

Which is probably more derived from Paganism than an actual understanding of the scriptures.

Not really, according to my interactions with them.
Yes, they pretend to be polite, but their actions are rude and they seem to prey on children.
Also, please keep religion out of these forums, it gets threads locked, this is not the place to go on missionary.

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

Not really, according to my interactions with them.
Yes, they pretend to be polite, but their actions are rude and they seem to prey on children.
Also, please keep religion out of these forums, it gets threads locked, this is not the place to go on missionary.

...What? To be fair, they are their own individuals and some are rude so I won't say you've never encountered as much.

However, predatory towards children? Seems a bit hyperbolic at best.

Similarly, if you want to avoid a discussion about religion, I recommend not giving your spew that paints an entire sect rather poorly and then requesting as much. It's the same thing as giving your opinion on a political matter, then telling those who hold a differing opinion before they can say their half, "Now let's end this subject." Doesn't work like that bobo.

[Leadsop]

You made the claim: "There was ZERO intent to instill fear or cause any sort of harm, let alone distress."

You get to back it up, not me.

As for you being bothered, you continue to whine about it, so it clearly bothered you. You made that the focal point, just as I thought you would.

Here's some of your quotes to back up my point:

"No sorry, I think you misunderstood - the race comment was in response to the other guy saying "RAWR WHAT IF A LARGE BLACK MAN FORCED YOU ON YOUR KNEES" as if this is a race issue. "

"If it were so "easily deemed assault," the lawsuit would already be announced. It is far different. One has clear intent to inflict harm. And what does race have to do with it? Absolutely nothing, unless you're some shithead from HuffPost."

You'll note, I never said race had anything to do with it.

Now, it's your turn.

You didn't, until you asked if I would consider it assault if a large black man forced someone to their knees. At that point, you brought race into it.

[Machismo]

You didn't, until you asked if I would consider it assault if a large black man forced someone to their knees. At that point, you brought race into it.

I simply wanted to see how you would respond, and you responded exactly as I thought you would. I never said race played a part in it. I still stand by the analogy, and it clearly bothered you.


I'm also still waiting for you to back up your claim.

[Bryntrollian]

Physical contact isn't even required to constitute an assault charge, in some cases just the threat is enough if the victim has a reasonable expectation that they may be harmed.

[Leadsop]

I simply wanted to see how you would respond, and you responded exactly as I thought you would. I never said race played a part in it. I still stand by the analogy, and it clearly bothered you.


I'm also still waiting for you to back up your claim.

Then why would you include the word black?

I'm not bothered, simply pointing out your fallacy.

[Machismo]

Then why would you include the word black?

I'm not bothered, simply pointing out your fallacy.

I did it to demonstrate your projection, mission accomplished.

You still haven't backed up your claim. You cannot seem to be bothered to do what you ask of others. Let me know when you want to go ahead and get on that.

"Not true. Blatantly not true, in fact. There was ZERO intent to instill fear or cause any sort of harm, let alone distress."

Your claim, please back it up.

[A dot Ham]

Sorry I couldn't find the link to the other article I first read this on but I found this one from Huffington Post that details the events as well.



The tl;dr version: Boy has been sitting for the Pledge of Allegiance since 2nd grade, boy states he doesn't do it because his religion is to worship God & family not idol things, teacher in 7th grade physically gets him out of his chair for not standing.

I don't know about you guys but if this would have happened to MY KID at school, my family would be getting money for my bail because I'd be down there slapping a bitch into next week for laying 1 finger on my kid.

I completely understand the need to protect your child... but you don't see the hypocrisy in that?

As far as "assaults" go this is/was pretty tame. But you still don't lay a hand on another person. But your response to that is to turn around and assault the teacher? Making him/her the victim and YOU the aggressor?

Especially given how tame the actual offense was, there are far more lifelong damaging things you could do to the teacher within the scope of the law that could bring you a sense of justice and satisfaction for the wrongdoing committed against your child.

[Noradin]

However, predatory towards children? Seems a bit hyperbolic at best.

I had to get them to leave me alone twice per week when I was between six and twelve (after that we moved elesewhere), and it wasn't always the same people, but they always tried the same tactic. They rang some bell pretending to be the postal service to get into the apartment complex then went and rang at every door trying to get people involved in "discussions" no matter their age. I'd call that preying on children, because six year olds are children.

Trying to evangelise people who might or clearly are underaged without the consent of their legal guardians is inexcusable, no matter how polite the manner of speech that is employed. This goes for people who go from door to door just as much as to teachers who want their pupils to do some religious pledge (and it is religious, it mentions "God").

This is all I will say on this topic here, because we are risking an infraction as is.

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

I had to get them to leave me alone twice per week when I was between six and twelve (after that we moved elesewhere), and it wasn't always the same people, but they always tried the same tactic. They rang some bell pretending to be the postal service to get into the apartment complex then went and rang at every door trying to get people involved in "discussions" no matter their age. I'd call that preying on children, because six year olds are children.

Trying to evangelise people who might or clearly are underaged without the consent of their legal guardians is inexcusable, no matter how polite the manner of speech that is employed. This goes for people who go from door to door just as much as to teachers who want their pupils to do some religious pledge (and it is religious, it mentions "God").

This is all I will say on this topic here, because we are risking an infraction as is.

That's your experience, not mine.

[Leadsop]

I did it to demonstrate your projection, mission accomplished.

You still haven't backed up your claim. You cannot seem to be bothered to do what you ask of others. Let me know when you want to go ahead and get on that.

"Not true. Blatantly not true, in fact. There was ZERO intent to instill fear or cause any sort of harm, let alone distress."

Your claim, please back it up.

If you want to reference any of my points, see my first post in the thread.

You're a clueless half-wit trying to bait people into a fight. Done with you in this conversation.

[gaymer77]

Not true. Blatantly not true, in fact. There was ZERO intent to instill fear or cause any sort of harm, let alone distress.

Again I suggest you spit on a cop next time you see one. There's no intent to harm (it is after all just spit) and there's no intent to intill fear. We'll see what happens to you. Assault is taking something and putting it on someone else (the most simple of definitions).

[Aeula]

This is news?

Similar, if not worse, stuff happened to me throughout primary school and nobody gave a shit.

England doesn't have a pledge of allegiance, but if you didn't join in the hymns or if you didn't sing 'well enough' you were punished. I was once physically dragged out of the church by my ear by one teacher for not singing 'properly' and I wasn't allowed outside for a week.

[Machismo]

If you want to reference any of my points, see my first post in the thread.

You're a clueless half-wit trying to bait people into a fight. Done with you in this conversation.

You made a claim, and as of yet, have refused to back it up. You demanded it of me, and I backed up my claim. Stop being intellectually dishonest, and back up your claims.

[gaymer77]

Absolutely not true, strict parents have the respect of their children, strict withen reason, there are some who take it too far, those kids go wild when they get the taste of freedom.

I have never met an adult that thanked their parent/s for being strict with them as a child. I have never met an adult that said they respected their parent/s for being strict with them as a child. I have met many adults who have thanked their parent/s for allowing them freedom to be themselves as a child. I have met many adults who said they respect their parent/s for giving them freedom as a child to learn life on their own while being guided by their parent/s. Fear does not earn respect. It actually inhibits respect. And fear does not mean you have a child's respect either. It just means you're an asshole.

Parents, who feel the flag is nothing to respect, should teach their kids to stand out of respect for others. But the teacher went too far. The kid is not a employee of the school district or under a contract with them. The teacher could have had a conversation with the parents of the kid if they wanted to try to resolve it. However, no kid attending a public school, should be forced to stand if they do not want to. This is a area the parents are responsible for. But that is one major problem with this country, a lack of responsible parents.

It was the kids constitutional right to not stand during it. The teacher crossed the line. I will agree with you that a major problem with this country is lack of responsible parents but these parents from this article were not being irresponsible with their son. They allowed him to make up his own mind about how he feels on the matter by himself. The kid has been sitting during the Pledge since he was in 2nd grade (that's 5 years) because he believes that doing so is against his belief in what God wants him to do. He feels that saluting the flag is the same as idol worship and that his God says you should only worship him & family.

just stand up for the flag man.

don't make it about politics, do it out of respect for the people that have served and the people that have died for your right to talk shit on the internet.

or whatever else you people do.

oh OT: dont snatch the kid out of the chair man, just give the whole class extra homework on American history. bet he stands up tomorrow

Those people who fought and died for that flag did so for that kid's right to NOT stand up if he doesn't want to. And so what you offer instead of ripping that kid up out of his chair is to punish him and the rest of the class (which in turn will probably get him bullied and harassed by other students for his belief) is extra homework?

HuffPost.... really.

As I stated in the first post, at the time of posting, this was all over the internet & I couldn't find anything else other than them to link to.

WASHINGTON POST TIME MAGAZINE NBC NEWS and incase you're one of those who think all of those are liberal lamestream media, here's FOX NEWS

Yeah, they're definitely interesting and worth talking with. VERY different from what you're used to dealing with concerning Christians.

I always roll my eyes when people are like, "omfg those jehovas witnesses knocking on muh door while im still recovering from muh hangover!"

I'm not much of a partier or drinker anymore but a couple years ago I had almost every other Saturday Jehovah Witnesses knocking at my door around 8 or 9 in the morning. I made the mistake one time and told them I was talking to my boyfriend and didn't have time for them. That didn't go over too well because following that, they were there every damn Saturday and that day I mentioned him, they left pamphlets on why homosexuality is wrong. I finally got tired of their bullshit and told them if they or any of their friends come here again I was calling the cops on them.

This is news?

Similar, if not worse, stuff happened to me throughout primary school and nobody gave a shit.

England doesn't have a pledge of allegiance, but if you didn't join in the hymns or if you didn't sing 'well enough' you were punished. I was once physically dragged out of the church by my ear by one teacher for not singing 'properly' and I wasn't allowed outside for a week.

You went to a private school. Things are entirely different at private schools. Here in the USA, they can force you to pray and lots of other things if you attend a private school.

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

I'm not much of a partier or drinker anymore but a couple years ago I had almost every other Saturday Jehovah Witnesses knocking at my door around 8 or 9 in the morning. I made the mistake one time and told them I was talking to my boyfriend and didn't have time for them. That didn't go over too well because following that, they were there every damn Saturday and that day I mentioned him, they left pamphlets on why homosexuality is wrong. I finally got tired of their bullshit and told them if they or any of their friends come here again I was calling the cops on them.

You make me sad. >:

[Mormolyce]

Similar, if not worse, stuff happened to me throughout primary school and nobody gave a shit.

Welcome to years beginning with a 2 then, grandpa. Teachers assaulting students is a big deal now.

We also have these consarned newfangled contraptions called computers and non-rotary phones.