Should mythic raiding going forward be tuned to be as easy as Emerald nightmare was?

[KaPe]

EN was to easy. Mythic content should be something as NH. very challenging for top guilds (no gear) but still doable for medicore guilds after several weeks of progress and before next content.

The problem here is that "no gear" part is far from truth nowadays. What used to be a long gearing process in now replaced with a mid-tier patch that offers a power boost through AP grind. Gearwise, heroic split farming gives top guilds more items that a typical mythic guild will get in several weeks.

[Hahyestwo]

No.

Emerald Nightmare was the first raid of the expansion. Historically, the first raid of an expansion has always been several degrees easier than the raids that followed.

Adapt.

I think EN was much easier than MSV or HM (the previous 2 comparable raids), but your point still stands. I really think that if they cap TF below the next highest raid difficulty (or even better, get rid of it entirely), the tuning will be back to normal next xpac. That and make legendaries token drops where you can choose which one you want (or again, get rid of them entirely, lol).

[DisposableHero]

No, mythic difficulty should be removed and the time and resources spent on creating and tuning it should be re-purposed to produce more/better raid content for a wider audience of players.

[Deleted]

No, mythic difficulty should be removed and the time and resources spent on creating and tuning it should be re-purposed to produce more/better raid content for a wider audience of players.

Making mythic doesnt even take most of their resources, the art of the raid and the boss models take the most.

[Deleted]

EN was heavily undertuned, even Watcher admitted it was during a Q&A. Any player who holds that difficulty level as a standard for mythic raiding, has no idea about the intended idea behind mythic. EN was a mistake and it let a lot of guilds and players believe they were better than they really are, which is a tough pill to swallow.

[Deleted]

No, mythic difficulty should be removed and the time and resources spent on creating and tuning it should be re-purposed to produce more/better raid content for a wider audience of players.

if you want more quality content...such like new mechanics and stuff um maybe try mythic? ./facepalm

[Tech614]

EN was heavily undertuned, even Watcher admitted it was during a Q&A. Any player who holds that difficulty level as a standard for mythic raiding, has no idea about the intended idea behind mythic. EN was a mistake and it let a lot of guilds and players believe they were better than they really are, which is a tough pill to swallow.

EN tuning was perfectly fine for an opening raid with one glaring exception which is Xavius. If Xavius was interesting and a step up in difficulty from Cenarius we wouldn't be seeing ridiculous posts like this. The problem is it took you 100 pulls to kill Cenarius to kill Xavius in 10-20 pulls. Fix that and like I said, raid was fine for an opener.

I would rather NH style tuning, but if I had to choose between EN and ToS EN is winning by a miles. World of Soakcraft with artificial difficulty if you don't have the perfect comp is not interesting tuning in the least.

[Marrilaife]

No, mythic difficulty should be removed and the time and resources spent on creating and tuning it should be re-purposed to produce more/better raid content for a wider audience of players.

I think postulating mythic to be more within the lines of EN than TOS is exactly what qualifies as "wanting content for a wider audience of players" instead of top 50 guilds (TOS pre-nerf).

But tbh, if you suggest mythic to be removed and some other "raid content" to be added for a "wider audience", where would you slot it? Mode easier than LFR? Mode between normal and hc? I already feel there's little difference between normal and hc, there are few good touches (like only 1 hydra shot on normal compared to 3 on hc, makes difference in how much coordination the team needs / doesn't need), but in general I'm not sure where else would you squeeze an extra raid mode and what purpose would it serve.

Ofc we could argue players don't want more raids, they want more dungeons or something else, but tbh the reception of added dungeons like Karazhan or Cathedral (avoided like the plague in m+ and nerfed 10 times over) shows adding dungeons isn't always the safest bet.

Similar issue with concentrating on casual content instead of raids - there's plenty of fun casual content in Legion and tons of people argue it's "pointless content" and refuse to participate in it. So you can't really just replace raids with different content and make people happy. Every time Blizzard adds something just for fun like mage tower challenge, pet battle dungeon, trial of style etc. there is a group of people complaining it's either pointless or in the case of mage tower and m+ that it's "content for raiders anyway".

[Constraint]

To everyone that voted (and will vote) "no": show your helya, gul'dan and kj mythic kills proof or SHUT THE FUCK UP!

What a stupid thing to say, really. It doesn't take a genius to work out that even for players in lesser progressed guilds, it's good to have something to strive for, something just out of reach which makes you want to improve your game and get there eventually.

By your woeful logic, everyone should simply want them to become easier and easier until everyone can kill the hardest content in the game. That or they should just never vote in polls. Right.

[Raqubor]

I disagree strongly. I think having something only the best can clear is detrimental to the game as a whole. It sends most players the message "YOU SUCK". The game needs to lie to most players and tell them they're better than they actually are. Difficult content ruins this necessary deception.

Are you serious? I do hope you won't reproduce or take any position where you can push this mindset on others.
People like you hinder humanity.
Infracted

[Osmeric]

Are you serious? I do hope you won't reproduce or take any position where you can push this mindset on others.
People like you hinder humanity.

I think you're falling into the common trap of confusing observation with advocacy. Saying "X is true" is not equivalent to saying "I want X to be true".

But then wishful thinking seems to be almost instinctive for a lot of people on these forums.

If you examine the situation objectively and dispassionately you will understand where I'm coming from there. Yes, it sucks if you don't want the game to be like that. But that doesn't mean Blizzard wouldn't be better off doing that. In many ways, you should thank your lucky stars that the devs have tried to cater to a gamer minority in WoW as much as they have, even if it has cost them $$$.

[Deleted]

To everyone that voted (and will vote) "no": show your helya, gul'dan and kj mythic kills proof or SHUT THE FUCK UP!

Why? I cant have an opinion when I am 9/10 Nh mythic?

[Puffah]

Not as easy as EN, but NH was nicely tuned. Tomb of Soaks so far is just annoying (7/9)

[primalmatter]

I am not really sure... on one hand ap and warforged have butched tuning so I dont know if you can really tune encounters that well anymore. Class stacking made a heavy return in tomb progression as well didnt it?

[vsb]

Every raid should be like EN, at least with time. Our guild managed to clear full EN before NH release. Now we are struggling with Goroth mythic. It's absurd level of difficulty at this point.

[Racthoh]

It seems like after 3 months only 40ish guilds have killed Kil'Jaeden on mythic which is absurdly low.

For the health of the game and the health of raiding and most of our sanities, would you like mythic raiding to be tuned easier and closer to Emerald Nightmare difficulty?

Honestly, the world first race while still exciting for a few fans and the ones involved, should not be considered when creating the difficulty of raids. Attendance is dropping because mythic TOV, NH and now ToS were tuned very tight.

EN created a false hope in borderline mythic players, but I don't think that's a bad thing. Considering WoW is over 12 years old, creating mythic to be tuned to Emerald Nightmare's level will only be good for the game and the raiding community.

why? no

[Athlios]

With the current patching pace, I would say nerf. It's not the difficulty the issue, it's instead the randomness of everything and the limited time in between patches.

[naytiry]

Every raid should be like EN, at least with time. Our guild managed to clear full EN before NH release. Now we are struggling with Goroth mythic. It's absurd level of difficulty at this point.

What's absurd is you not being able to kill goroth Mythic at this point. At least 3 first bosses are a walk in the park. I'd say Goroth mythic is easier than Nythendra mythic too

[KaPe]

What's absurd is you not being able to kill goroth Mythic at this point. At least 3 first bosses are a walk in the park. I'd say Goroth mythic is easier than Nythendra mythic too

She might have been slightly more demanding gear wise (mostly because ilvl cap was just raised and couldn't be filled with TFs from previous tier), but at least she didn't have any "you lose" mechanic. Goroth is a bizarre first boss, they usually don't have binary wipe conditions like "soak or die".

[Shadowsgrace]

Simply put, no. Mythic is supposed to be difficult.