Which Mage spec for Antorus?

[nickseng]

IMHO, you're probably better off researching the types of fight Antorus will have. AOE fights will definitely favour fire, and ST will favour Frost. It's mostly the same as it was in TOS. The tier sets don't really change this.

[Charge me Doctor]

This IS my research. I've done data research on my own, but I'm not conceited enough to believe that is the be-all-end-all. I'm looking for more opinions, more results, more perspectives. This isn't a problem with one simple, clear solution, because we lack the data to back it up. We have fragments of useful information everywhere, it's just a matter of bringing them together.

If you don't have useful input to contribute, that's fine. These aren't easy questions to answer. If they were, I wouldn't be in this situation.

Haven't seen you sharing any data here tho. What are you talking about? You ask "which spec will be fotm for antorus?", forum answers "we don't know yet" - that's the whole discussion about "data".
If you are afraid of "wasting" AP into "wrong" spec - don't be, play whatever you like (because even if you can play something you don't like - you'll burn out of it really soon), in worst case scenario you'll be 200k DPS behind (read: insignificant amount) and +1 parsing player on warcraft logs for unpopular spec, which will allow you to get legendary parses.

Unless you are aiming for world first.

But if you are you wouldn't be asking suck questions and would just have multiple mages rolling for legos

[Biomega]

Haven't seen you sharing any data here tho. What are you talking about? You ask "which spec will be fotm for antorus?", forum answers "we don't know yet" - that's the whole discussion about "data".

Me not having anything more concrete than dungeon journal is the entire REASON I made this thread. So people who've been to the PTR, or have had discussions with other people, or whatever other thing would hopefully share it. Sharing "I don't know" isn't exactly helpful because that's the default position. Most people don't know.

If you are afraid of "wasting" AP into "wrong" spec - don't be

I'm not. I've already said I'm not. AP is a trivial problem. Legendaries are not. This is all about legendaries, and nothing else. Not acquiring tier gear, not performing in ToS, not 'wasting' AP - just legendaries. That's why I want to make a decision, so I have time to farm up a good number of them and hopefully fall into the part of the RNG curve where they're useful.

[Charge me Doctor]

Me not having anything more concrete than dungeon journal is the entire REASON I made this thread. So people who've been to the PTR, or have had discussions with other people, or whatever other thing would hopefully share it. Sharing "I don't know" isn't exactly helpful because that's the default position. Most people don't know.

There are PTR videos on youtube and it takes the same time to reach them as to get to dungeon journal, just take your time and do a research. But its PTR and everything is subject to change. I've looked at bunch of them and probably will drop fire spec in favor of arcane this tier. Regardless of me having only kilt and a hat for it. There is not much movement and adds in fights, and i really want to give arcane a try (except, maybe Eonar fight, it looks hectic as fuck).

I'm not. I've already said I'm not. AP is a trivial problem. Legendaries are not. This is all about legendaries, and nothing else. Not acquiring tier gear, not performing in ToS, not 'wasting' AP - just legendaries. That's why I want to make a decision, so I have time to farm up a good number of them and hopefully fall into the part of the RNG curve where they're useful.

If you are concerned about legendaries - then play frost and don't be concerned, it's the least legendary-dependent spec with best DPS ATM, even if you'll get screwed by RNG you'll be fine

[CthulhuFhtagn]

Since legendaries are your only concern, you already had your answer from people earlier in this thread - go for the first 2 in every spec, see what you get and make your decision based on that. If you get a BiS for Fire/Arcane, your best statistical chance is to keep farming legendaries for that spec to get the second BiS. If you get crappy ones for Fire/Arcane, go Frost.

[Deleted]

Instead of arguing with most people, and telling people their advise isn't what you want how about you delete this thread and just do the research on your own. Sim yourself, and research the 3 specs. You are wasting your own time, and everyone else who's tried to apply.

This sums it up nicely.

[Gr1mdark]

Weird thinking, to be honest.
I mean, you can never know what will be better even in case of leggos.

Why dont you think of a scenario where you get lucky and roll bracers and belt for fire as the first two.
And based on everything else written up there, you go fire ready to kick some ass in Antorus.
When suddenly Blizz wakes up on a morning 2 days before patch day and decide to nerf the bracers from 300% to 150%.

The ass-kicking will end even before starting, and the forum will be the one who gave a bad advice?
If leggos are the most concern - go frost.

I am playing fire simply because I like the upcoming set bonus.

[Vorrum]

Fire wins in AOE, Arcane wins if you need a strong def every couple of minutes.

Arcane consistently wins 3+ AoE

[Zenfoldor]

Arcane consistently wins 3+ AoE

Actually true, but also "fun fact" because it's so rare to see an arcane Mage, and much, much rarer to see a good one. The only reason I even believe it is the sims, but I think I may try to look through logs this weekend and see how arcane does vs fire on a few aoe bosses. I'm always looking for a leg up, so I wouldn't be averse to running a tri-spec.

[Deleted]

Already playing frost. I feel like it is going to be a very strong pick. With legendaries and good relics. (brain freeze proc > all).
Just notice that frost is nice on ST and cleave. But poor on aoe.
I suggest you choose wisely an offspec (arcane / fire) and focus on aoe damages for this off spec depending on legendaries you have.

Fire is better in sustained AOE. This is ok in MM+ content, but in a mythic raid, you almost never get the possibility to deal huge amounts of sustained aoe. It is ST /cleave and sometimes bursting some adds on very specific timers. These design fit for frost and arcane 90% of the time.

[Vorrum]

Actually true, but also "fun fact" because it's so rare to see an arcane Mage, and much, much rarer to see a good one. The only reason I even believe it is the sims, but I think I may try to look through logs this weekend and see how arcane does vs fire on a few aoe bosses. I'm always looking for a leg up, so I wouldn't be averse to running a tri-spec.

I am one such arcane mage. I pulled 1.8m dps on heroic sezzanine with shoulders/sephuz. I feel awful though because that dps means nothing since the boss is the real target - the rest is meter padding on the murlocs/abyss worms; that fight is essentially padding: the fight.

[Biomega]

Actually true, but also "fun fact" because it's so rare to see an arcane Mage, and much, much rarer to see a good one. The only reason I even believe it is the sims, but I think I may try to look through logs this weekend and see how arcane does vs fire on a few aoe bosses. I'm always looking for a leg up, so I wouldn't be averse to running a tri-spec.

Arcane is fairly represented on Harjatan, but that's about it. Here and there on the others, but usually dwarfed by the other two. It's a volatile spec, it seems, and I'll be avoiding it until there's some solid reason not to.

I suppose the whole stay Frost gamble on Fire plan is the most useful idea so far, and should slot into most probable scenarios for Antorus. Gods know I've been in RNG hell on every other character so who knows, maybe some love from the bell curve for a change.

[Zenfoldor]

I am one such arcane mage. I pulled 1.8m dps on heroic sezzanine with shoulders/sephuz. I feel awful though because that dps means nothing since the boss is the real target - the rest is meter padding on the murlocs/abyss worms; that fight is essentially padding: the fight.

Solid. I've only managed a 1.58 at 930 on sassz, and an identical number at 934 for Harj as fire. In both cases I believe I was running pure single target except for flame patch.

Honestly, I could up those numbers a lot if I didn't have such good other aoe in the raid. I find that a much bigger indicator of how my sustained aoe will go in raids is my competition rather than my spec. If I have other heave aoe'rs hogging up the adds, I can't reach solid numbers.

An example of this, I believe on my top siz log I actually died about 15 seconds before the end of the fight and we beat it with two tanks and a healer. The reason my parse was solid was because I was the only dps on a group of 6 adds for a prolonged period of time. If I had my hunter and warlock friend there blasting them with me I would never have been able to hit 6 adds at once, and my parse would have been lower.

Particularly, I always parse well when my BM friend's internet is acting up(I've been sparing with him for xpanions, lol).

Things out of my control that I wish were in my control:

1. Competition for damage on adds
2. Length of the fight

[davesignal]

I am one such arcane mage. I pulled 1.8m dps on heroic sezzanine with shoulders/sephuz. I feel awful though because that dps means nothing since the boss is the real target - the rest is meter padding on the murlocs/abyss worms; that fight is essentially padding: the fight.

Look at it this way: killing those adds makes life easier for your healers. You're doing them a favor.

[mrgreenthump]

Look at it this way: killing those adds makes life easier for your healers. You're doing them a favor.

Or just kill the boss and your healers have to conserve less.

[Vorrum]

Solid. I've only managed a 1.58 at 930 on sassz, and an identical number at 934 for Harj as fire. In both cases I believe I was running pure single target except for flame patch.

Honestly, I could up those numbers a lot if I didn't have such good other aoe in the raid. I find that a much bigger indicator of how my sustained aoe will go in raids is my competition rather than my spec. If I have other heave aoe'rs hogging up the adds, I can't reach solid numbers.

An example of this, I believe on my top siz log I actually died about 15 seconds before the end of the fight and we beat it with two tanks and a healer. The reason my parse was solid was because I was the only dps on a group of 6 adds for a prolonged period of time. If I had my hunter and warlock friend there blasting them with me I would never have been able to hit 6 adds at once, and my parse would have been lower.

Particularly, I always parse well when my BM friend's internet is acting up(I've been sparing with him for xpanions, lol).

Things out of my control that I wish were in my control:

1. Competition for damage on adds
2. Length of the fight

https://imgur.com/a/mIr5z


Even better tonight

[Soulwell]

I'd disagree that input is irrelevant because of player skill. Skill will always be a factor to be sure, but given how unpredictable it is, you're probably still better off analyzing things objectively. I don't see my play swinging one particular spec by a significant margin, I've played numerous classes and done well enough on all of them to be confident that it shouldn't be a deciding factor.

And while I agree that specs will be "close", that's true for anything. The crux is usually in HOW close. And the finer you go in your discrimination, the more "close" becomes a debatable term. Are Sub Rogue and Outlaw Rogue "close"? Are BM hunter and MM hunter? What margin, exactly, is "close" versus not being so? In the absence of actual data, I'll settle for educated guesses - however, I'm mostly interested in the educated part rather than the guessing part. Reasons, rather than feelings.

I'm not looking for the one, definitive answer. I'm looking for aggregated knowledge, data, experience, arguments, from which I can then, ultimately, distill something that might be worth using for me.

Going off of tier sets and recent changes fire looks like it's going to be top. As for patchwerk single target frost will come out ahead.
Also, skill pretty much got removed in the wod prepatch. So there certainly isn't any point in justifying that user input is relevant to big numbers when the entire game is paint by proc.

[Regalbeast]

Just play what you want and stop arguing with everyone, goodness.

[rogoth]

To clarify, I don't give a donkey's balls about my performance in ToS. I'll be carried through by the guild np, as we all gear our various alts for Antorus. What matters is performance NEXT tier, and I'd like to have as many legendaries ready for that as possible. For that, choosing one spec is pretty much required, and I'd rather be prepared for the best spec THEN, not NOW.

nobody knows, they haven't even started properly tuning mythic bosses yet so asking this mundane nonesense question is a pointless waste of time, if you want to FOTM reroll then mage is not for you.

[D3athsting]

Stat weights are a nightmare for arcane too