Apple diversity head Denise Young Smith apologizes for controversial choice of words

[Katie N]

You do... everyone does... everyones experience is different due to their own unchangeable features...

Women have different experiences to men, gays have different experiences to straight people.. bi sexual people have different experiences than straight or gay people black people have different experiences to white as white people have different experiences to asians... I mean all of these things factor in how one views everything in life... don't be simple.

To deny that things are different based on your race, features, or sexuality is just stupid.

Tall people experience things differently.. they are more often literally looked up to and end up in management more often and make more money.. blond people good looking women... experience things differently due to hair color and attractiveness.

Is this a hard concept for you people to understand?

People experience everything differently because people are different, it does not have to do with race. If I go to shop I don't have a different experience than a white guy because race. I have different experience from my sister too.

[Very Tired]

I think everyone in the thread is missing the main point. Regardless of these "life experiences" or which diverse group has them, explain how exactly do they make a business better? Give some examples that a group of "non diverse" white men couldn't do themselves. And not just a more interesting pot luck dinner.

[Themius]

People experience everything differently because people are different, it does not have to do with race. If I go to shop I don't have a different experience than a white guy because race. I have different experience from my sister too.

Okay so "people experience things diferelty because people are different but race (which makes them VERY VISUALLY DIFFERENT) doesn't matter for some reason!"

There are Asians who complain about the way they're treated in summit (an upper class 85% white suburb in jersey) and say they get a lot of looks and sometimes are begrudgingly served or skipped over and treated differently because they're asian so

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I think everyone in the thread is missing the main point. Regardless of these "life experiences" or which diverse group has them, explain how exactly do they make a business better? Give some examples that a group of "non diverse" white men couldn't do themselves. And not just a more interesting pot luck dinner.

Difference of ideas... ideas happen because of ones background... I mean if you had a diverse group of people working in photography and on things dealing with how cameras pick up people you probably would have ended up with darker people being able to be photographed more properly without companies putting out technology that only caters who those who are light. Black or Indian too bad.

[Kraenen]

Disturbing. She simply exposed a fact and received a backlash from it. Diversity is not physical, it's psychological.

People try to ties both together, but the reality is that assuming someone has a specific experience based on his physical identity is textbook racism, sexism and to some extent xenophobism.

Unless you're a race realist - in which case skin color means your brain works differently.

Doesn't even mean diversity is a good thing either. Take an easy example - do we want the best sprinters or do we want diverse sprinters?

[Themius]

Unless you're a race realist - in which case skin color means your brain works differently.

Doesn't even mean diversity is a good thing either. Take an easy example - do we want the best sprinters or do we want diverse sprinters?

This isn't a race... studies have already shown that diverse leaders, management, boards and so on are more effective and make more money...

[primalmatter]

I miss when you could just hire the most qualified person for the job...

[Kraenen]

Difference of ideas... ideas happen because of ones background... I mean if you had a diverse group of people working in photography and on things dealing with how cameras pick up people you probably would have ended up with darker people being able to be photographed more properly without companies putting out technology that only caters who those who are light. Black or Indian too bad.

What? Darker people photograph the easiest. The whole tanning industry exists to make white people feel envious of "healthier" (++ skin cancer) skin, and makes millions if not billions. White people, especially men, need to be tan to be considered attractive in this supposedly white supremacist society.

This is all beside the fact that most people in the west are white. It isn't a tragedy if tan people aren't having even more aesthetic subsidy.

[Very Tired]

Difference of ideas... ideas happen because of ones background... I mean if you had a diverse group of people working in photography and on things dealing with how cameras pick up people you probably would have ended up with darker people being able to be photographed more properly without companies putting out technology that only caters who those who are light. Black or Indian too bad.

Going to need a better example of how being diverse helps because that is in no way how photography works.

[Kraenen]

This isn't a race... studies have already shown that diverse leaders, management, boards and so on are more effective and make more money...

They actually don't. They select successful companies, who need to have 'diverse' boards for PR purposes, then conclude diversity made them more effective.

Is this about skin color or about perspectives? Again, unless you're a race realist skin color has nothing to do with internal mental states. The phrase "not all" applies here. Use it.

[d00mGuArD]

I



You do... everyone does... everyones experience is different due to their own unchangeable features...

Women have different experiences to men, gays have different experiences to straight people.. bi sexual people have different experiences than straight or gay people black people have different experiences to white as white people have different experiences to asians... I mean all of these things factor in how one views everything in life... don't be simple.

To deny that things are different based on your race, features, or sexuality is just stupid.

Tall people experience things differently.. they are more often literally looked up to and end up in management more often and make more money.. blond people good looking women... experience things differently due to hair color and attractiveness.

Is this a hard concept for you people to understand?

See you are right and wrong.
You are right all these people have different experiences, and things are different for all of them
You are wrong to advocate that it is because of their race or gender or something. They have different experiences because they are humans and all humans are different and have different experiences no matter their race or sexuality. You stereotype much?

[Elbob]

This isn't a race... studies have already shown that diverse leaders, management, boards and so on are more effective and make more money...

I think the point is about diversity really being caused by individuals' experience(s). Having a multitude of different races doesn't make a group more diverse in anyway other than skin color. Having 12 people together that all grew up in different cultural, and financial backgrounds is more likely to generate a variety of opinions and ideas.

Now being a person of color, will make you MORE LIKELY to have different cultural and social views than lets say a white person (in America) but thats because of social interactions(that the individual experiences) not because of the color of his/her skin. Our brains work the same(more or less) regardless of race, sex, gender but our views on the world are molded by experiences.

So what is my point? When it comes to a team of people getting a project done you want people from a variety of BACKGROUNDS with unique EXPERIENCES to make the group have a wider range of opinions. I'd wager you get a wider set of views by grabbing 12 "blonde hair, blue-eyed white guys" from varying regions of the earth with different financial, educational and cultural histories than 12 1%'ers of 12 different races from NYC.

TLDR: Race can indirectly cause unique views and diverse opinions/ideas BUT so can a BUNCH of other things. Grabbing a token "insert race here" individual does not defaultly make a group more diverse(other than skin color but that doesnt contribute anything when it comes to the project) unless their race has caused them to have unique views AS AN INDIVIDUAL.

Edit: was thinking more about this and diversity based on "shallow" things like appearance is kinda silly isn't it? If skin color matters... does eye color? hair color? hair type? height? weight? ear type? Most of these things actually can cause social interactions. People treat tall people and short people differently so should height be added to affirmative action policies? I mean, I don't think so but just some food for thought.

[primalmatter]

Diversity is just another word for racism these days. People who push it tend to resemble and speak like the KKK members of old only with new targets for their hatred.

[Orby]

Apple Diversity? Whats that, like equal rights for apples? Should I not separate by Granny Smiths and my Golden Delicious? Diversity is out of control isnt it

[Polyxo]

Nope and since I don't it doesn't mean I need it shoved down my throat constantly.

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The "diversity" movement in all of it's glorification is really just affirmative action. After 50 years you'd think the people behind it would admit it has failed but nope they rebranded it instead. If it actually worked then why do we need this movement now? All affirmative action has done is hurt minorities.

Guy goes into forum thread specifically about the internal diversity policies for a company. Complains about things being 'shoved down his throat.'

[Kraenen]

The inherent issue with diversity is that at it's core it's racist by discriminating against specific denominations while uplifting others artificially.

Here's a good read from CNN. http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/30/us/bla...ege/index.html

Black privilege is a real thing - better athleticism, better sexually adjusted, being treated with more respect and thought of as cooler, etc... The only real question is how much those privileges add up. Turns out Asian privilege conquers them all in terms of material consequences and quality of life. So it's not surprising Asians are no longer considered diverse, but actually white.

[Molis]

Apple Diversity? Whats that, like equal rights for apples? Should I not separate by Granny Smiths and my Golden Delicious? Diversity is out of control isnt it

Granny Smiths are so much better than all other apples.

I do not allow Ruby Red type apples in my house.

[Poppincaps]

I thought the whole point of diversity was that people from different groups are going to have different ideas and thus bring different thoughts to the table?

What else would be the point of hiring someone who's black or homosexual for the sake of a diversity hire? This is assuming that them being a minority is a primary factor for why they are being hired. Obviously there are tons of black, homosexual, etc. people who are more than qualified for the job.

[Themius]

Going to need a better example of how being diverse helps because that is in no way how photography works.

When color photography first came out it has issues picking up people of darker tone and instead would make them extremely dark to the point they sometimes looked black this was because the developers of the technology only made the film to work on people with light skin and if the team had people with darker skin this issue likely would have been brought up sooner than when it was already released and took decades to fix...

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They actually don't. They select successful companies, who need to have 'diverse' boards for PR purposes, then conclude diversity made them more effective.

Is this about skin color or about perspectives? Again, unless you're a race realist skin color has nothing to do with internal mental states. The phrase "not all" applies here. Use it.

Wait are you literally now changing the studies because you want it to fit your made up beliefs?

skin color doesn't have to do with mental state... but how one is treated obviously isn't a fucking mental state lol.

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See you are right and wrong.
You are right all these people have different experiences, and things are different for all of them
You are wrong to advocate that it is because of their race or gender or something. They have different experiences because they are humans and all humans are different and have different experiences no matter their race or sexuality. You stereotype much?

Oh hush up with that... it would be nice if it was only because they're human but let's not pretend that women aren't treated any differently and have different experiences based on the fact they are women alone. and let's not pretend that the one or two minorities growing up in a 95% white area were treated just the same and have the exact same upbringing. This has nothing at all to do with stereotypes.

Are we going to pretend also gays get treated the same as straight people next?

[Very Tired]

When color photography first came out it has issues picking up people of darker tone and instead would make them extremely dark to the point they sometimes looked black this was because the developers of the technology only made the film to work on people with light skin and if the team had people with darker skin this issue likely would have been brought up sooner than when it was already released and took decades to fix...

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Wait are you literally now changing the studies because you want it to fit your made up beliefs?

skin color doesn't have to do with mental state... but how one is treated obviously isn't a fucking mental state lol.

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Oh hush up with that... it would be nice if it was only because they're human but let's not pretend that women aren't treated any differently and have different experiences based on the fact they are women alone. and let's not pretend that the one or two minorities growing up in a 95% white area were treated just the same and have the exact same upbringing. This has nothing at all to do with stereotypes.

Are we going to pretend also gays get treated the same as straight people next?

I think you guys are still missing the bigger picture. If you say we are treated differently from our race, height, looks, age, etc... Why should race be the ultimate factor out of all of them when it comes to diversity?

And as far as I know, it's illegal to discriminate during the hiring process for any of those, height, looks, age, etc. But you want race discrimination in the hiring process to not only be legal, but encouraged?

[Themius]

I think you guys are still missing the bigger picture. If you say we are treated differently from our race, height, looks, age, etc... Why should race be the ultimate factor out of all of them when it comes to diversity?

And as far as I know, it's illegal to discriminate during the hiring process for any of those, height, looks, age, etc. But you want race discrimination in the hiring process to not only be legal, but encouraged?

race isn't the only factor.. because sex, and gender play a role too... there are quite a few Wall Street firms that hire specifically gay people

the person got in trouble said specifically "all blond blue eyed men" I never said it is only about race, but race sex and sexuality are the three major things when it comes to diversity.

the specific study I am talking about by the way dealt with women on boards.