Tank meta for Antorus

[Tech614]

Meta and Fiery Brand, what do you count as a 3rd cd, I must be forgetting something. Especially since no one plays with soul barrier these days, in NH yea I saw it, but now, not really, I guess it scales poorly or spirit bomb rework just cannibalized it.

Empower Wards, which is powerful against any burst magic damage. Not great at sustained magic DR like Krosus, but outside of those rare situations from NH that don't seem to be repeating themselves most magic damage comes in a burst and it's 30% DR every time for that.

[Deleted]

I am personally rooting for being able to not play brewmaster next tier but they are so strong I wouldn't be surprised if I get nudged to stay on it. Where are the vengeance buffs at

[Deleted]

Empower Wards, which is powerful against any burst magic damage. Not great at sustained magic DR like Krosus, but outside of those rare situations from NH that don't seem to be repeating themselves most magic damage comes in a burst and it's 30% DR every time for that.

If you count emower wards, then warrior have 4 (5) defensive CDs on very short CD also more base armor and miles better active mitigation

[Tech614]

If you count emower wards, then warrior have 4 (5) defensive CDs on very short CD also more base armor and miles better active mitigation

Are you really moving goal posts now to try and argue who the better mid tier is?(I certainly don't care or have any interest in arguing VDH vs Prot War, have fun talking to yourself if that's your goal).

Let's go back to how you think Fiery Brand doesn't work against DoTs LMAO.

[Deleted]

Are you really moving goal posts now to try and argue who the better mid tier is?(I certainly don't care or have any interest in arguing VDH vs Prot War, have fun talking to yourself if that's your goal).

Let's go back to how you think Fiery Brand doesn't work against DoTs LMAO.

Well sorry that I worded it incorrectly, nobody's perfect... It does jack shit against enviromental effects

[Tech614]

Well sorry that I worded it incorrectly, nobody's perfect... It does jack shit against enviromental effects

Once again false.

If brand is on the mob who created bad on the ground, it reduces damage of bad on the ground. Using your logic death and decay wouldn't count as DK damage and conc wouldn't count as paladin damage.

It's not about being perfect, it's about commenting on things you know nothing about. You clearly know nothing about VDH tanking yet tried to comment on their issues(they need another CD LMAO thanks for the laugh).

Lastly not sure why you're so worried about environmental effects in the first place as the only reason a VDH would be standing in them is cheesing empower wards bonus agility. Unless you're talking about Armageddon which they can just soak by hitting demon spikes? ROFL.

[Deleted]

Once again false.

If brand is on the mob who created bad on the ground, it reduces damage of bad on the ground. Using your logic death and decay wouldn't count as DK damage and conc wouldn't count as paladin damage.

It's not about being perfect, it's about commenting on things you know nothing about. You clearly know nothing about VDH tanking yet tried to comment on their issues(they need another CD LMAO thanks for the laugh).

Lastly not sure why you're so worried about environmental effects in the first place as the only reason a VDH would be standing in them is cheesing empower wards bonus agility. Unless you're talking about Armageddon which they can just soak by hitting demon spikes? ROFL.

OK... no reason to talk to you...

[Tech614]

OK... no reason to talk to you...

I'm still waiting on you to retort and prove anything I say wrong.

You claimed VDH needs a CD like Shield Wall, when Fiery Brand is the same DR, lasts longer and has a far lower CD.

You claimed Fiery Brand doesn't work against DoTs.

You then claimed it didn't work against environmental damage(like seriously regardless what tank ever thought I need some super cd to stands in the bad LUL, most can do so easily if they want to and gain benefit from it as it's designed to kill dps/healers and not tanks).

Please refrain from commenting on specs and abilities you don't even understand and wanting people to take you serious. In fact looking at all your posts in this thread I'm not sure you ever played any tank spec in any expansion outside of prot war. VDH has the most button bloat of any tank spec, the last thing any of them care about is getting another CD. They're nearly immortal when Brand or Meta is up anyways, VDH is far more worried about their NON CD damage in take. But thanks for playing.

[Deleted]

I'm still waiting on you to retort and prove anything I say wrong.

You claimed VDH needs a CD like Shield Wall, when Fiery Brand is the same DR, lasts longer and has a far lower CD.

You claimed Fiery Brand doesn't work against DoTs.

You then claimed it didn't work against environmental damage(like seriously regardless what tank ever thought I need some super cd to stands in the bad LUL, most can do so easily if they want to and gain benefit from it as it's designed to kill dps/healers and not tanks).

Please refrain from commenting on specs and abilities you don't even understand and wanting people to take you serious. In fact looking at all your posts in this thread I'm not sure you ever played any tank spec in any expansion outside of prot war.

I had avatar lava in mind or purple beams (not ment to be soaked anyways by tanks but w/e) that deals ticking damage as dot

I said I can get shield wall to probably same or even lower CD as Brand (same with last stand)
I would compare the abilities like this:
Meta = Last Stand
Brand = Demo Shout
Wards = Reflect
Shield Wall = ???

Anger management cuts out CDs of everything except reflect greatly

also 2 out of 3 set bonuses for Veng are completly or nearly useless with 3rd comming up that will be mediocre

Also I tryed every tank spec this expansion and currently playing Prot warr > Brewmaster > Veng DH >> Prot Pala >>>>>>>> Blood DK >x999> Bear (they are the most boring tanks spec for me)

[Deleted]

Monk will fall off due to in creased magic damage this tier and a worthless tier bonus.

Can you explain to me why the magic damage is going to be a problem for monks? We will get a massive DPS increase because of the new set, especially if you have the shoulders. Also, because of the extra dodge stack generation we need less mastery opening up more room for stats like vers and crit wich are great for DPS and survivability. Because of the new set we can swap out legendary chest for a new legendary whilst keeping the DPS. This new legendary in combination with taking Mystic Vitality talent can make us terribly tanky also on magic damage fights. I really don't understand all the negativity around monks in antorus. Can someone explain?

[Deleted]

Can you explain to me why the magic damage is going to be a problem for monks? We will get a massive DPS increase because of the new set, especially if you have the shoulders. Also, because of the extra dodge stack generation we need less mastery opening up more room for stats like vers and crit wich are great for DPS and survivability. Because of the new set we can swap out legendary chest for a new legendary whilst keeping the DPS. This new legendary in combination with taking Mystic Vitality talent can make us terribly tanky also on magic damage fights. I really don't understand all the negativity around monks in antorus. Can someone explain?

The new set doesn't do anything against magic damage, I think that is what he was thinking. I don't really think we need a set that helps us deal with magic damage, because we are fine anyway.

The new 2 set would only be good if you have really low mastery. Since we already avoid haste on gear, so your mastery will probably be a lot higher than the 27%, where the 2 set stops to be any good. 4 set is only going to be a dps increase in aoe or if you replace the leg chest. I will probably run T20 4p until everyone else on the token has their pieces.

I also think that monks are going to be completely fine. To be on the safe side (and for the utility on certain fights) I'm also gearing Druid and DK, but that is another matter.

[dcc626]

The new set doesn't do anything against magic damage, I think that is what he was thinking. I don't really think we need a set that helps us deal with magic damage, because we are fine anyway.

The new 2 set would only be good if you have really low mastery. Since we already avoid haste on gear, so your mastery will probably be a lot higher than the 27%, where the 2 set stops to be any good. 4 set is only going to be a dps increase in aoe or if you replace the leg chest. I will probably run T20 4p until everyone else on the token has their pieces.

I also think that monks are going to be completely fine. To be on the safe side (and for the utility on certain fights) I'm also gearing Druid and DK, but that is another matter.

im not worried as most of the magic damage seems to be coming at times that arent especially important. theres a pin in the brewmaster discord from unmonk who did all the mythic testing about it.

[Deleted]

I'm bummed that tank balance wasn't touched at all during the Q&A yesterday. Looks like druids will be the uncontested best tanking class for everything all expansion long. Top 3 tanks of ToS will probably be top 3 tanks of Antorus

[Marrilaife]

I'm bummed that tank balance wasn't touched at all during the Q&A yesterday. Looks like druids will be the uncontested best tanking class for everything all expansion long. Top 3 tanks of ToS will probably be top 3 tanks of Antorus

It's ever more worrying that they stated no big class / spec reworks next expansion, and the only specs they're considering touching are the ones that are completely weird like demo, survival etc. So far we've seen active mitigation going all into +armor instead of damage reduction, which means for example paladins are gonna get shafted even more next expansion because contrary to other tanks they don't have ams, empower wards or spell reflect. I can't believe after playing a paladin since wotlk for many years we came to legion where the spec got broken and nothing on the horizon shows they care to fix it, the new design of light of the protector is even worse than the current one or the word of glory we had since cata.

And yep, for Antorus abandon all hope, we all saw what happened in TOS - "balancing pass" came and did nothing to tanks, Blizzard only cares about dps specs and buffs / nerfs extreme outliers. DHs and Paladins had to wait until 7.3 to get any form of buff and it was very minor.

Bigger question is, what kind of tank utility will be mandatory. TOS was retarded because every guild was prepping tanks that were best for KJ not for other bosses preceding him, and for KJ you needed roar and massgrip after some hotfix that enabled the use of it. In NH I played paladin and there were several instances where spellwarding or other paladin utility was very useful. In TOS, very much less so, they even hotfixed beam on sisters so you can't spellward it anymore. Massgrip though? Inquisition with spawning all the cage adds, host, KJ.

I would really prefer if raid design made NO specific tank mandatory because there are 6 tank specs and only 2 tank spots, so you should be able to beat the content with any combo without extreme problems (slight advantages / disadvantages are fine). Not every guild will have every tank class at their disposal to rotate around depending which utility is necessary now. Mandatory tank utility literally forces even a non split running guild into making their tanks prep "split" alts in case a different tank is needed. It's an extra burden and my guild is actually not enforcing raid alts and not doing split runs, but our tanks have other classes prepped on their own just because of a shit show legion has been with tank balance, so you never know.

[ceejay]

The tank discussion really only applies to those who are pushing hard on progression. Even then the differences between a druid and a demon hunter are not large enough to where it would prevent progression on a boss. Any tank in the right hands can handle any mechanic. Are some tanks a little better than others on specific mechanics? Of course, but I don't think that it warrants a complete reroll to a different tank unless you are on the bleeding edge of progression, which the majority of players are not.

More importantly is the fun factor. I would gladly play my paladin any day over my druid or dk because I find the paladin play style so much more enjoyable. Staring at a big dumb bear ass all raid gets old, and I find the play style of a dk so boring, and frustrating at time due to the plodding nature of a dk in general. I know it is so cliche to say, but playing the tank class that you enjoy is so much more important than the small differences between tanks.

[TwentyTwelve]

I agree that any tank is viable unless you're pretty much top 50 world or whatever but this tier this was not the case.

ToS was pretty okay with this rule upto KJ, you NEEDED a bear for KJ, the roar was and still is too good, not to mention having a tank who can immune the knockback for perfect laser positoning in p2... which yeah a druid can do too...

Dark phase was built around blood DKs, like the entire fight screamed Bear+DK. It's doable without these two... at the cost of loosing your sanity.

If they ever create another boss like KJ they can not let 1/2 tanks have the utility for it but not the other 4.

[Marrilaife]

The tank discussion really only applies to those who are pushing hard on progression.

It's not about "pushing hard" it's also about the fact that most mythic guilds gear dps first to beat dps checks (which makes perfect sense and it's something a tank just has to live with) so a tank has to survive with old gear decently deep into mythic. For best guilds, it often means until last boss or second last. But even for lesser guilds, I can tell you progressing demonic inquisition mythic on the first week with 908 ilvl paladin was harder than with some other tank, of course once I got to 930+ it stopped mattering but by that time boss was long on farm.

This is the case in general, when I started gearing my DH first time I came to hc Avatar with low gear, healers were complaining how much damage I take, but once I got gear, DH stopped being an issue.

Some tanks work "less bad" when undergeared and of course that's a big boon for guilds that want to deep dive into content in the first weeks.

[judgementofantonidas]

Any idea what the tank meta is looking like for Antorus? I've been hearing from a few people that protection paladin is making a big comeback with their new tier.

Any thoughts?

Too many unsuported opinions aleady posted on this thread. Along with some outright dumbass when it comes to already known tank ranking. Probably run out of popcorn soon.

[Veiled Shadow]

It's ever more worrying that they stated no big class / spec reworks next expansion, and the only specs they're considering touching are the ones that are completely weird like demo, survival etc. So far we've seen active mitigation going all into +armor instead of damage reduction, which means for example paladins are gonna get shafted even more next expansion because contrary to other tanks they don't have ams, empower wards or spell reflect.

AMS basically absorbed nothing on the demos, and Empower Wards was removed.

[Marrilaife]

AMS basically absorbed nothing on the demos, and Empower Wards was removed.

Hmm, interesting, so they're all going the way of mark of ursol? I wonder how the dungeon (m+) and raid boss design is gonna look like... If there are any Krosuses and Ymirons out there it won't be funny. I don't mind specific abilities that force tanks to blow major cds, but it can't be something that is on a low timer or something longer than "soft enrage phase" (like odyn p3 spears, they were physical anyway but they were a check "how long you can go until tanks run out of cds and the rest of the people run out of space to place tornadoes").

Ofc most tanks will get again "cd nerf" (yet another, feels like they're getting it every expansion) because artifacts are going away. And especially for Druid and Paladin it was important cd.

I'm really wondering what's the intent of changing ignore pain... So now instead of paying rage up front you stop generating rage after? I guess the upside is you can still use it in a pinch while rage starved.