So, can we call Legion a bust for anyone who played Ret, and what's in it for 8.0?

[Kiki b]

Judgment would need to change, probably to a normal HP generator that deals splash damage. That could act as a "smart toggle" - in other words, if 2+ targets have a Judgment debuff near you, then Templar's Verdict becomes Divine Storm and Blade of Wrath becomes Divine Hammer.

I feel like judgment just being a holy power generator, or just kinda big damage nuke ability would be fine. If they NEED it to give a buff/debuff, bring back the Judgment of Light/Justice/Wisom system and have Judge randomly give the paladin Move speed/leech/avoidance lmao

[Nikoll]

Holy shit, havent seen this name in a looooong time. I learned pretty much everything I know about ret from Prentice, Requital, and Swampmoose on these forums, hah.

I just came back as well. And while set is obviously different, the thing that confuses me the most is now what the back i was talking about in swamp's signature.

[Ulthane]

Hoping Wake of Ashes is baseline.

If this is the case the talent in the 100 row needs to reduce it's cooldown to 10 - 15 seconds and increase its damage.

[Gloriandus]

Hoping Wake of Ashes is baseline.

If this is the case the talent in the 100 row needs to reduce it's cooldown to 10 - 15 seconds and increase its damage.

Demos from Blizzcon show Wakes of Ashes has replaced Holy Wrath on the last talent tier.

[Sigxy]

Well, at least we're getting auras back it seems.. or aura. So far there's just Devotion Aura, 40 yards, 10% more armour - but maybe they'll add some more 'spec specific' stuff later on. Still, one aura = already better "class fantasy". >_>

[agentsi]

This is objectively false. Do I have to list all the stuff ret lost? Because it's a lot, and I'd rather not. Some aspects are good, but overall it's meh and wouldn't be difficult to improve, which is the point. It's not difficult at all to make it better than it is right now.

Who hasn't lost something. Ret is the single best class for consistent melee AoE in HIGH lvl mythic + or raids. I've done enough 15+s with wars/rogus/ret/feral/etc, if I had to choose one melee to bring for a mythic +, its a ret pld, without question. Because ret isn't a kingpin, everyone cries like children. EVERY class has lost something. Stop crying. You could be an outlaw rogue, or a survival hunter. New ideas for spec's people wanted, then were completely ignored after launch.

[Deleted]

Beta talent tree. Very early.
http://www.wowhead.com/bfa-talent-ca...tribution/cpTM

The good news? After almost 2 years Equality finally died. Thank the light for that!

[Ulthane]

Demos from Blizzcon show Wakes of Ashes has replaced Holy Wrath on the last talent tier.

Yea, I was there. I saw.

My thing is that I hope it becomes a talent that enhances it.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Who hasn't lost something. Ret is the single best class for consistent melee AoE in HIGH lvl mythic + or raids. I've done enough 15+s with wars/rogus/ret/feral/etc, if I had to choose one melee to bring for a mythic +, its a ret pld, without question. Because ret isn't a kingpin, everyone cries like children. EVERY class has lost something. Stop crying. You could be an outlaw rogue, or a survival hunter. New ideas for spec's people wanted, then were completely ignored after launch.

Who has lost as much as Ret? No one.
Ret is the single worst spec for consistent movement, PvP or straight ST bosses.

We could be outlaw-levels of awful , you say?
We could also be Spriests-level of awesome, yet here we are.
Take a wild guess why.
Take a wild guess why Ret Dragonslaying tree is littered with the most awful, dead and useless talents.
Take a wild guess why Ret PvP tree is littered with close to no useful and actually offensive talent.
Come on, you can do it.

[VyersReaver]

You can't be pleased, can't you? Reminder: YOU GOT FUCKING ASHBRINGER.

[Morally Grey Storm]

You can't be pleased, can't you? Reminder: YOU GOT FUCKING ASHBRINGER.

Rebuttal: It doesn't fething matter.

[Garter Snake]

Bring back emp seals.

[Reith]

Who hasn't lost something. Ret is the single best class for consistent melee AoE in HIGH lvl mythic + or raids. I've done enough 15+s with wars/rogus/ret/feral/etc, if I had to choose one melee to bring for a mythic +, its a ret pld, without question. Because ret isn't a kingpin, everyone cries like children. EVERY class has lost something. Stop crying. You could be an outlaw rogue, or a survival hunter. New ideas for spec's people wanted, then were completely ignored after launch.

Not the point, lol. Ret and Demo are the two specs who lost the most stuff in the whole game without much to "replace" it. And they did some questionable additions and nerfs on top of that. Stop crying about nobody else crying, because you're not adding anything to the discussion here. You're just here to instigate, otherwise you'd know that you have no chance at winning any actual argument here.

[Eurytos]

Beta talent tree. Very early.
http://www.wowhead.com/bfa-talent-ca...tribution/cpTM

The good news? After almost 2 years Equality finally died. Thank the light for that!

Judgement still looks to be Colossus Judgement, increasing dmg of finishers. I'm so frustrated by this.
There are two things that are most important to me that they fix about ret. Fucking change this bullshit judgement, and bring back HoW. In that order. How do they not realize how shitty this is?

Whats worse, is that I'm so attached to my paladin, having played it for 10 years, having collected tons of gear, tons of xmog, just so much put into it, that I'm going to play it anyway. And that really sucks. I love my paladin and I want ret to be fun. This is bullshit. Judgement is the first thing that has to change, everything else comes after.

[Gloriandus]

Maybe they could change Judgment to give it better effects

- It jumps with a fresh debuff to a nearby target if the current judged target dies before the duration ends, or,

- Damage caused by the paladin on a judged target increases the lower the target's HP is, with a maximum number of "stacks". Could work like a HoW in a way, or

- Damage done to a target after Judgment adds puts "extra" Holy Power, say, up to 5, in a stack that is unleashed with the next Judgment

[Eurytos]

You could be an outlaw rogue, or a survival hunter. New ideas for spec's people wanted, then were completely ignored after launch.

This misses the fact that rogues and hunters have 2 other dps specs they could choose from. If youre a paladin, and you want to dps, there is only one way. I would love for them to introduce some new dps spec for paladin, so that I would still get to dps on my beloved paladin, but not have to suffer through the abomination that is the current ret playstyle. So, cry me a fucking river about pure dps classes that have one poor dps spec and two good ones.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Oh, but Ret has another dps option.
It's called Arms.

[Jester Joe]

You can't be pleased, can't you? Reminder: YOU GOT FUCKING ASHBRINGER.

So you're saying since we're losing Ashbringer, we can finally get better talents?

Good to see though that they do at least acknowledge Holy Wrath, although that was covered like 2 days ago I think?

[Morally Grey Storm]

So you're saying since we're losing Ashbringer, we can finally get better talents?

Good to see though that they do at least acknowledge Holy Wrath, although that was covered like 2 days ago I think?

Can we finally get better, slightly more competent and professionally professional developers, though?
ir is it overkill to dream such a thing?

[Eurytos]

I'm honestly baffled by this. The fact is we aren't asking for a class or spec overhaul like Survival or some other newly overhauled class.
We are asking for things that have at one point or another already existed in the game. And they could make this happen by making them talent choices.

If they truly want interesting choices, make the choices between playstyle. Who really thinks its an interesting choice to choose Cavalier over whatever the fuck else in in that talent tier. What WOULD be interesting is a choice between, say, empowered seals, inquisition, or colossus judgement. It's all similar. Emp seals buffs dmg through seal swapping getting att. power bonus and attck speed bonus. Inquisition is a holy dmg buff. Colossus judgement does what it does. All of these are maintenance buffs, the player would have to keep them up to stay competitive. Different ppl would pick different talents. I can tell you what I wouldn't pick! But that doesnt mean others would always avoid colossus judgement.

They could make 5 more rows, just like this. Pick between Crusade, Guardian of the Ancient Kings, or Zealotry. Clearly these are our big cooldowns. There is a choice to be made here that effects how a person plays.

Pick between Pursuit of Justice, Long Arm of the Law, or Cavalier. (I'm not saying these solve our movement issues, but paired with each other in the same row, actually makes for a playstyle choice) Clearly about movement.

Someone earlier talked about making seals like crusader laws in diablo...perfect! That is a great row of talents. Active seal options. Pick a seal talent. This of course assumes we have seals back, but fucking hell of course we should. Depending on what seal you have active, the three talents in a row will be different. Say, for Seal of Truth/Vengeance/DPS ST seal, on activation it makes the dot do more dmg for brief period, or it consumes the dot for big dmg, or something else dot related. For other seals, the active seal does something else, its not hard to come up with ideas.

Get rid of trash talents like holy wrath, divine intervention, judgement of light, and other garbage. Talents are not the place for these kinds of abilities. Either make them passive, or just get rid of it. Or make a bunch more talent rows and put all the shit choices on a row of other shit choices. Is there really a decision to be made about blinding light, repentance, or fist of justice? Literally, if you had all three, it wouldn't make a lick of difference to a pve player. Which, we've already all agreed pvp and pve should just have totally separate talent trees and such.

I'm baffled, really. I was really enjoying blizzcon, they didnt have a ton of announcements, i presumed they were still working on classes and specs...but no, apparently all is good with all the spec playstyles. Fucking hell, I'm so bummed now.