The WoW Classic community is entering a civil war.

[lectos]

This is exactly my fear and why I was against classic servers in general. You cannot please everyone. You cannot make it exactly the same and you cannot just change it a little. It will be a great divide. Hopefully it all settles down once we get more information.

[Jyggalag]

The part where you brag saying "It was only my main for about 4 years, in which I achieved playing WoW 100x more than you ever have or could. Personally I'd say it shits all over yours" is priceless. I raided Molten Core while it still had their placeholder skins for the tier sets. In fact, dugeon sets were still mostly with placeholder skins. Me and my guild got the server first kill of Azuregos. You probably don't even know whats that anyways. Probably was still using diapers during that time.

Calls me out for "bragging", goes on to brag harder with a trivial encounter where the hardest part was getting 40 players... I'll play along. You raided end-game Vanilla? WoW you sure showed me - you must be an amazing player!

You tell me which boss was harder -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_Qw_GbW9v8
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/41969653

Your realm 1st (lol) vs my world 35th @4 nights/week? Rhetorical question BTW...

- - - Updated - - -

As has already been stated by Blizzard, the classic servers will as close to the originals as possible.

The same person also said legacy servers would never happen. Ion has also said they would look to the community for feedback on the direction, and has already said QoL improvements are coming where they make sense. He pointed out that there are people who won't be happy unless they're gliding along the barrens on 1 knee for 10 seconds at a time because they got stuck in the loot animation.

It's threads like these, where debates can be had, and opinions can be shared, on the best approach for Classic. I'm here trying to have a constructive discussion, but pro-carbon copy Vanilla fans can't seem to get past the "u want change go play Legion and LFR n00b u never even play Vanilla!!!111" mindset, despite me pointing out regularly that, actually, I did play Vanilla, and have played recently. I'm familiar with everything amazing it offers and everything broken that should be fixed.

[Eurytos]

This isn't rocket science.

Release the game with classes balanced and QOL features as of 1.12.

Release the post launch content on a Legion-esque patch schedule. Launch, then 11 weeks to first major patch, then 11 weeks to minor patch. Repeat until Naxx is released. AQ event goes in as it was. AQ takes as long as it takes to open. Maybe Blizzard adjusts contribution amounts if there are too few people contributing to ever actually open the raids (like what they do now for Broken Shore buildings).

I would like to see just 2 QoL features added that were not part of the original game:

1) Pass-through looting. If I go solo SM Armory at 60 trying to farm the tabard, and I kill all the initiates stacked on top of each other, I should be able to loot all of them, not just the ones with a finger or foot sticking out far enough. Note that this has nothing to do with AoE looting, just being able to individually loot all the mobs killed regardless of where the corpse models landed on the ground.

2) Transmog UNLOCKS ONLY. If I can manage to collect a full set of Tier 3 at level, I would like to be able to use it in retail without having to wait for those pieces to spawn on the BMAH. Given that obtaining the armor at level is far, FAR more demanding, I don't see why this would be a legit issue for anyone, especially since it would have zero effect on the actual Classic experience, and would only provide additional incentive to play Classic.

#1 seems like a fix to a problem, not a feature of the game.
#2 seems like a nice incentive. It doesn't really change anything, transmogs are account bound anyway. If you loot something new it should be transmoggable on your main account. I guess the problem might be communicating that from the classic server that may not have any functionality saving items to some drive that then could be read by your main account as having been collected somewhere else on your account. The bigger picture being I don't think there are any issues with allowing your main account to have some benefit, some extra incentive to playing Classic. Like crafted weapons and armor that are no longer available...I know quite a few folks that would spend all the time necessary leveling up blacksmithing to get some old weapon models added to their new account. And by quite a few, i mean all of my alts and their professions.

I would go as far as to say they HAVE to give main accounts some benefit to incentivize more folks to check out Classic. It may only be a few things, it could be as cool as allowing anything looted in Classic to be added to your main xmog closet.

[JustRob]

I mean it's a nice incentive but I wonder if it's enough. Even if you can get a full T3 transmog, or even the legendary AQ mount by getting it in WoW Classic, will you have the dedication to do so? Do you realize how hardcore (and I mean hardcore) you'd have to play it in order to even get anywhere close to having a chance at that?

But, I wouldn't have a problem with it. The only ones who might have a problem with it are the people who got that stuff in vanilla originally, and get upset that it's made available again.

Even so, I dunno if Blizzard would do this. We'll see.

[Jastall]

The amount of No True Scotsman fallacies in this thread is simply staggering, even if sadly expected.

I think some people need to make their peace with the fact that classic servers appeal to more people than hardcore purists, and that Blizzard may design them with this in mind.

[orderschvank]

I played vanilla, I want legacy servers, and I want some minor QoL changes.

nothing game breaking in my eyes. just things to help make it more "friendly" for a broader audience.

-like tuning up all the specs (trying to make it so that every spec is viable (especially more viable tank specs), BUT not so that every spec is the same. It still makes sense that there is that 1 class that is just going to completely wreck you, and that 1 class that you will always wreck, this feels very RPG to me. like OH SHIT A WARLOCK RUUUUUN!!)

-meeting stones being able to summon, but requiring 3 or even 4 people having to click. sometimes most of your group gets to dire maul then your 5th realizes he doesnt have the time or w/e and bails. now you have to wait another 15-20 minutes for your new 5th to get there (if you dont have a warlock)

-more streamline gear stats. No one wants to equip of the boar gear.. nobody lol. but I still want hit raiting, the specific spell gear. all that stuff makes the game exciting. but for the love of god no one uses of the boar!

-maybe this time they can include (and honestly I think they will) tier gear for each spec. kind of like what they did with legion, your set bonus' varies based on what spec you are in. still make the tier gear hard to obtain (by which i mean 40 people and only 2-4 pieces of loot drop a boss) but now you have more versatility with the gear.

-potions/materials stacking higher. vanilla had the least amount of bag space but arguably the most need for it. potions only stacked to 5. ore only stacked to 10 i believe. people would make new characters just to use their bank for 1 category of items. I had a ore bank, a cloth bank and a herb bank.

-maybe maybe introduce the system that we have now for finding mythic + groups but have it be for everything. there is no que system. just a simpler way to look for groups (but for the love of god DO NOT INTRODUCE ILVL).. ilvl/gearscore is cancer and is NOT NECESSARY in vanilla. (im all for trade chat/world chat for finding groups this would just help decrease the clutter of finding those groups.

-(they probably wont but I would really love it.. AOE looting lol) or at least fix it (like mentioned above) so I can click through corpses ive already looted to loot the next corprse

in closing, I want the leveling to stay the same, I want the raids to feel the same (i imagine they may introduce new surprising mechanics!) and I want the grind to stay the same in essence (grinding mats for consumables and what not)

[JustRob]

The amount of No True Scotsman fallacies in this thread is simply staggering, even if sadly expected.

I think some people need to make their peace with the fact that classic servers appeal to more people than hardcore purists, and that Blizzard may design them with this in mind.

The only reason we got legacy servers is because of the hardcore purists asking for it for so long, so no sir I will not make peace with that.

[Deleted]

The only reason we got legacy servers is because of the hardcore purists asking for it for so long, so no sir I will not make peace with that.

Well said good sir. Well said.

[Jastall]

The only reason we got legacy servers is because of the hardcore purists asking for it for so long, so no sir I will not make peace with that.

You keep telling yourselves that. Blizzard doesn't do things because of forum outcry and reddit upvotes, they do things because their market analysts told them there's a profit in it. And if they think there's more profit in Vanilla+, as opposed to just Vanilla, they may very well go into that direction.

[Deficineiron]

The only reason we got legacy servers is because of the hardcore purists asking for it for so long, so no sir I will not make peace with that.

The only reason we got legacy servers is because of the hardcore purists asking for it for so long, so no sir I will not make peace with that.

you are both very wrong. the only reason classic wow is happening is because blizzard has decided that a significant business opportunity exists. forum personality stuff is irrelevant to the reality of it.

- - - Updated - - -

You keep telling yourselves that. Blizzard doesn't do things because of forum outcry and reddit upvotes, they do things because their market analysts told them there's a profit in it. And if they think there's more profit in Vanilla+, as opposed to just Vanilla, they may very well go into that direction.

my theory on this is that their analysts are going to tell them making it like retail (everything brain-dead easy except the latest raid, ding 60 in a few days max, aoe instances, etc.) is the broadest possible appeal, and I think this is the most likely scenario. Don't forget selling blue gold and instant 60 boosts eventually.

A lot of names have left blizzard over the last few years, one can only hope Morhaime et al can try to bargain/push back some against McClassic MMO special.

If blizzard goes full dumb-down/QoL, then the end of this story may be classic proponents still playing on classic private servers.

given what blizz needs to accomplish with the target market, I think they should consider having the full-panda servers be nerfed, easy, full of QoL stuff, lfd, whatever for the modern crown/retail/those who prefer fast and easy. Then keep a type of server with almost none of that stuff, authentic tuning and pacing, etc. Essentially their Pristine Realm concept, but applied to the Classic version. they could stick those open-ended bg's they seem to hate on those servers too, classic AV etc.

[Polygons]

My view on this, is that classic is being done, in order to assist with moving it into timewalking.

I'm pretty sure they're introducing classic because of the demand for it, and so they can do whatever they want to retail without people getting upset at them ruining their nostalgia anymore. Like say if they wanted to fill Un'goro crater with water or burn Teldrassil.

[Deleted]

You keep telling yourselves that. Blizzard doesn't do things because of forum outcry and reddit upvotes, they do things because their market analysts told them there's a profit in it. And if they think there's more profit in Vanilla+, as opposed to just Vanilla, they may very well go into that direction.

I don't understand your compulsive need to shit on the people who have literally been asking for vanilla realms for years and just want an unaltered version to go back too.

Were you one of those people who took pleasure in posting vanilla server threads only to say "No, never gonna happen", and now are trying to ruin what we've almost accomplished out of some kind of vindictive pettiness? Or are you honestly just that much of a unpleasant person?

[Aori]

I just wanna know which honor system they're going to use.. the honor Rankings or the honor currency.

[JustRob]

You keep telling yourselves that. Blizzard doesn't do things because of forum outcry and reddit upvotes, they do things because their market analysts told them there's a profit in it. And if they think there's more profit in Vanilla+, as opposed to just Vanilla, they may very well go into that direction.

You’re wrong.

As a longtime World of Warcraft player, even I don’t know whether Classic servers will be a success. My guess is once the initial wave of tourists dies down, there will only be a small core group of people left. "That’s OK," Brack assures me. "I don’t think that’s wrong. There will be a core group of people who are really excited, and that’s the game for them and that’s the thing they want to play.

http://www.pcgamer.com/this-is-how-b...a-wow-servers/

[Jastall]

you are both very wrong. the only reason classic wow is happening is because blizzard has decided that a significant business opportunity exists. forum personality stuff is irrelevant to the reality of it.

- - - Updated - - -



my theory on this is that their analysts are going to tell them making it like retail (everything brain-dead easy except the latest raid, ding 60 in a few days max, aoe instances, etc.) is the broadest possible appeal, and I think this is the most likely scenario. Don't forget selling blue gold and instant 60 boosts eventually.

A lot of names have left blizzard over the last few years, one can only hope Morhaime et al can try to bargain/push back some against McClassic MMO special.

If blizzard goes full dumb-down/QoL, then the end of this story may be classic proponents still playing on classic private servers.

given what blizz needs to accomplish with the target market, I think they should consider having the full-panda servers be nerfed, easy, full of QoL stuff, lfd, whatever for the modern crown/retail/those who prefer fast and easy. Then keep a type of server with almost none of that stuff, authentic tuning and pacing, etc. Essentially their Pristine Realm concept, but applied to the Classic version. they could stick those open-ended bg's they seem to hate on those servers too, classic AV etc.

I don't think so. Blizzard knows that a healthy chunk of the potential Classic playerbase are the die-hards who will accept nothing less than vanilla as it was the day before the BC pre-patch. They want that audience. But they also want the curious players who have heard of this Vanilla business and want to give it a bash, but possibly won't stay long if they have to spam trade chat for invites or find that they wanted to play a Ret Pally only to be told that these don't exist.

So my belief is that we'll get Vanilla+, with modern Battle.net infrastructure, bug fixes, and a few changes mostly intended to make the experience more user friendly, with a few UI changes, API fixes for the sake of addons, and maybe a few features like a manual group finder albeit that is in no way guaranteed. They will do the changes they believe might convince some of the proverbial tourists to stay, without going too far and alienating the hardcores.

I know a Blizzard employee said it would be ''fine'' if the servers had less retention than expected. I fully believe that is bullshit. They say that to placate the fans, but the team leaders sing a very different song to the shareholders and higher ups. Blizzard doesn't invest money in a project expecting it do merely do ''fine''. They want bang out of their buck, or heads will roll.

[Deficineiron]

I don't understand your compulsive need to shit on the people who have literally been asking for vanilla realms for years and just want an unaltered version to go back too.

Were you one of those people who took pleasure in posting vanilla server threads only to say "No, never gonna happen", and now are trying to ruin what we've almost accomplished out of some kind of vindictive pettiness? Or are you honestly just that much of a unpleasant person?

your reply has nothing to do with his comment. blizzard is doing this because they expect to make a great deal of money. nothing more nor less.

also, I strongly caution not counting any accomplishments until you see what blizzard actually releases. the phrase 'classic gameplay experience' appeared far too fast for my comfort. it means, to me, that they are gonna change stuff and claim they preserved the experience.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't think so. Blizzard knows that a healthy chunk of the potential Classic playerbase are the die-hards who will accept nothing less than vanilla as it was the day before the BC pre-patch. They want that audience. But they also want the curious players who have heard of this Vanilla business and want to give it a bash, but possibly won't stay long if they have to spam trade chat for invites or find that they wanted to play a Ret Pally only to be told that these don't exist.

So my belief is that we'll get Vanilla+, with modern Battle.net infrastructure, bug fixes, and a few changes mostly intended to make the experience more user friendly, with a few UI changes, API fixes for the sake of addons, and maybe a few features like a manual group finder albeit that is in no way guaranteed. They will do the changes they believe might convince some of the proverbial tourists to stay, without going too far and alienating the hardcores.

I know a Blizzard employee said it would be ''fine'' if the servers had less retention than expected. I fully believe that is bullshit. They say that to placate the fans, but the team leaders sing a very different song to the shareholders and higher ups. Blizzard doesn't invest money in a project expecting it do merely do ''fine''. They want bang out of their buck, or heads will roll.

right, though I think you are optimistic about how much a/b is going to want to 'fix' the inaccessibility problem classic has.

as a rule one should just ignore blues on this topic unless they provide concrete detailed information. 'classic gameplay experience' is not detailed information, rather an evasion eventually. blizz is starting what will be a multi-year psy-op on the classic community, telling them they are getting what they want and sugar-coating points they cannot or choose not to hide on changes. maybe getting sponsored or prominent bloggers to come out in support of changes too is/will happen.

I see little reason not to expect a Frankenstein server when it finally goes live.

[Flarelaine]

Blizzard is going to do what they want to do, and we won;t know what that is until they tell us. I seriously doubt Blizz is going to put ANY more effort into this than they have to, so I suspect we will get THE actual vanilla we had back then.

I've said it before, there is no way Blizzard doesn't have complete, running code, fully detailed bug lists/patches/etc... of every major build since the beginning. They won't change a single thing and seriously, they don;t have to. It grew very well until later devs ruined the gameplay.

Purists will be happy, because we are getting exactly what was released then.

Blizzard had stated they don't have the code. You are contradicting them with conviction, so you must have a source. Care to link it?

- - - Updated - - -

What I'm gathering from this Reddit thread is the same conclusion I draw from the postings here:

- People who played on Nostalrius and other vanilla private servers ACTUALLY want vanilla, without any QoL changes bullshit
- Ever since the WoW Classic announcement, plebs have come out of the woodwork who never wanted vanilla before

How can you tell what someone else wanted previously? Do you have a time-crossing mindreader? Have you been making weekly saves of the brains of all players or what?

[Jastall]

your reply has nothing to do with his comment. blizzard is doing this because they expect to make a great deal of money. nothing more nor less.

also, I strongly caution not counting any accomplishments until you see what blizzard actually releases. the phrase 'classic gameplay experience' appeared far too fast for my comfort. it means, to me, that they are gonna change stuff and claim they preserved the experience.

- - - Updated - - -



right, though I think you are optimistic about how much a/b is going to want to 'fix' the inaccessibility problem classic has.

as a rule one should just ignore blues on this topic unless they provide concrete detailed information. 'classic gameplay experience' is not detailed information, rather an evasion eventually. blizz is starting what will be a multi-year psy-op on the classic community, telling them they are getting what they want and sugar-coating points they cannot or choose not to hide on changes. maybe getting sponsored or prominent bloggers to come out in support of changes too is/will happen.

I see little reason not to expect a Frankenstein server when it finally goes live.

As for your first paragraphs, I personally pay no heed to the posters that believe this forum should be an echo chamber just because the subject matter is vanilla. WoW's playerbase is one of the most diverse and divided in the market, and the forums reflecting that is normal.

Anyway I think Blizzard knows that the main (albeit by no means sole) driving force behind the Classic server demand is those that want the pure experience. If only for profit's sake alone, they will not want to alienate them by adding stuff like LFR or CRZ, which I fully agree would defeat the purpose of a Classic server and should never be included. But smaller, more granular change that they can pass off as quality of life and modern updates without breaking the design of vanilla? That's another can of worms, perhaps to be opened a few months after release once players have a taste of what trade chat grouping, terrible class balance, outdated UI and out-of-control addons really is like.

[Flarelaine]

they shouldnt make any drastic changes until after the servers launch.

if possible they need to figure out a way for only people who actually play on the servers to vote for changes.

god knows that all the classic/vanilla haters will vote for the dumbest options if they are allowed to.

And what would keep anyone from starting a character on these servers just for voting?

- - - Updated - - -

Exactly. Want the awesome features that made wow the shit show it is today? Retail is there for you. In there you are free to choose between 2 or 3 talents and use one or two keys for habilites. There you can play as kung fu pandas, fight with your pokemons and toggle your pvp on and off. You can also receive artfact weapons in your mail and fight retconned bosses to exaustion while claiming the game is harder than ever.

If you wanted to advertise how little you know about the game, you are on the right path.

- - - Updated - - -

Getting an Ashbringer in the mail isn't enough?

Interesting vision, whatcha smoking?

[Deletedaccount1]

You keep telling yourselves that. Blizzard doesn't do things because of forum outcry and reddit upvotes, they do things because their market analysts told them there's a profit in it. And if they think there's more profit in Vanilla+, as opposed to just Vanilla, they may very well go into that direction.

Except Blizzard themselves have said they aren't making Vanilla+. You people come into these threads and argue about this without even reading what Blizzard has said about the topic. It's like coming to a discussion in a class without having done the assigned reading.