Traditional raid tier sets will be removed with BfA

[grexly75]

If they don't want us to "hate the new system" they shouldn't announce it half realized then.

And can you imagine the uproar on these and the Blizz forums if they didn't tell anyone and just dropped it in beta? Just like they have done with certain aspects of the game before..

With how you and some others are reacting to this then that is exactly what they should of done, not tell anyone and just drop it like a bombshell in Beta.. People complain that Blizzard don't communicate with the community..

And with how this thread is turning out only solidifies why Blizzard are hesitant with talking to the community..

[Deleted]

Does removing tier set bonuses actually simplify the game? With tier sets it's just "farm up your tier set so you can get set bonuses."

The most complicated aspect of them is figuring out when it's a DPS increase to break your set bonus for a new piece of gear.

All they needed to do was preplan set bonuses. Instead of doing it last minute and thinking "SHIT WE NEED SOMETHING QUICK!".
With a bit of preplanning and math it can be done easy.

[shaunika123]

That's assuming you're in the top 100 guilds, for the average raider who won't see the end boss til the end of the tier, 17 weeks ain't half bad.

I was in 936 after a month into ToS, others in my guild were already over 940

we finished KJ at world rank 174 (granted avatar was 134, cos we spent WAAAAAY too much time on KJ)

If I go down to world 400 guilds the difference will be 2-3 ilvl max overall.

and as i said 17 weeks is the absolute best case scenario, on average itll take you like 25-30 since you'll get tons of duplicate slots, or just flat out terribly stat budgeted items. by that time the new tier is out and you can start all over.

and once the raid is on farm, if we take for example a 10 boss raid it'll give about 1,3-1,5 times more loot/person on average.

after 6-7 bosses it already starts to be more lucrative

and then we take the usually better trinkets, unique mounts, titles, achievements, transmogs, etc. on top, and it's clear raiding wont be more unrewarding than it is now.

[Niwes]

a: nowhere in my post have I said "ilvl>all", then again I play a rogue and that generally is the situation, outside of haste drops.

b: If after the new patch being out for like 5-6 months it's still not clear what legendary combos are best in what situation, then either it doesnt matter, or noone cares about enha shamans(which I'd doubt)

c: raidbots.com needs no premium, and it's a fantastic tool, you cna compare talents, legendaries, gear, trinkets, relics everything. and it only takes a couple minutes.

d: and there are logs which tell you clear as day what the best options are.

yes, we also have tons of graphs, legendary combos, and what have you, but ultimately it all boils down to what YOU have. which at a time wont be more than 2-3 different options.

I dont even really get what your issue is. like having to decide whether a new drop is better or not is making the game bad cos you cnat just look at a bis list and decide based on that?

I seriously for the life of me don't understand what your issue is. what gear to equip and in which combinations to equip them SHOULD be a meaningful choice, not some pre determined BS. so how exactly is it a bad thing?


seriously, I got 5 alts on 110, none of them have I had any issues deciding what items to wear, because I do my research and occasionally not afraid to ask people I know who are good with the class, then eventually I learn and can decide from myself. it's a part of learning a class. not everything should be easy.

its useless. you understand nothing. either rogues are that clear and easy, or you always had clear bis drops, and never any real choices, or you (and i assume its that) you have never tried to minmax seriously. its hillarious that you say how easy it is, when i give you 2 appropriate relics, 1 with a bit lower ilevel and mid trait and one with bit higher ilevel and better trait. and same for t3 in relic. look at the fukin link i posted, and tell me that its that clear. same goes for various L combos. you act like ppl dont ask this stuff every fukin day in forums and always ppl discuss 5 pages whats best or mostly telling sim, test, calc. its hillarious how „quick and easy“ you wanna let look it. sorry, but for me this discussion is over, since you are either minmax on a way lower niveau or play a complete different game. dont know how long u play this game. i do since 13 years and its hillarious how „easy and obvious“... just forget it. useless. sorry.

[Deleted]

Because it ties up less slots, and they could offer it on more pieces.

Lets say there's a raid exclusive shoulder talent, it appears on all shoulders in the raid but some shoulders are Crit/Mastery, others are haste/vers., etc. If it's not good for you you don't need to wear it because it doesn't affect any other piece you wear.

Ah right yeah I get what you mean. Yeah that does sound good as long as their is something to getting these "Set bonuses" and its not just kill x number of bosses in the new raid.

[iperson]

I cant help but feel this is gonna make even less people wanna raid. One of the main reasons people raided was for set gear with the nice 2 and 4 set bonus. I dont like this change at all.

I don't know a single person that raids for set bonuses and I pity anyone who does. I can't imagine spending that much time doing something you don't enjoy for a bonus that 90% of the time doesn't make a single bit of difference outside of parses...

[Jastall]

The Azerite pieces basically replace tier sets, except they're for everyone instead of the people who raid, and cannot TF. So long as these have interesting effects, I think this could be a good change.

I'm slightly more worried about the art team doing sets that ''fit the location'' instead of fitting class fantasy. I wasn't a big fan of them doing that in Trial of Valor.

[Deleted]

I don't know a single person that raids for set bonuses and I pity anyone who does. I can't imagine spending that much time doing something you don't enjoy for a bonus that 90% of the time doesn't make a single bit of difference outside of parses...

You kidding me? lol Some set bonuses are so powerful they practically define the class.

[Onikaroshi]

And can you imagine the uproar on these and the Blizz forums if they didn't tell anyone and just dropped it in beta? Just like they have done with certain aspects of the game before..

With how you and some others are reacting to this then that is exactly what they should of done, not tell anyone and just drop it like a bombshell in Beta.. People complain that Blizzard don't communicate with the community..

And with how this thread is turning out only solidifies why Blizzard are hesitant with talking to the community..

I'm not saying they drop it in beta, but them announcing that they're taking something away from raiding and then leaving it is going to ruffle feathers. If they had just said "We're taking away sets from raiding but don't worry because...." it would be a different conversation.

- - - Updated - - -

I was in 936 after a month into ToS, others in my guild were already over 940

we finished KJ at world rank 174 (granted avatar was 134, cos we spent WAAAAAY too much time on KJ)

If I go down to world 400 guilds the difference will be 2-3 ilvl max overall.

and as i said 17 weeks is the absolute best case scenario, on average itll take you like 25-30 since you'll get tons of duplicate slots, or just flat out terribly stat budgeted items. by that time the new tier is out and you can start all over.

It's not 17 weeks though, you only need THREE specific slots out those chests, only three slots don't TF. Everything else can TF.

[iperson]

and as i said 17 weeks is the absolute best case scenario, on average itll take you like 25-30 since you'll get tons of duplicate slots, or just flat out terribly stat budgeted items. by that time the new tier is out and you can start all over.

QFT, I'm averaging about 1 upgrade a month from the chest, the rest is crap. I got 3 necks in a row.

[Thorim]

raiders can do the chest just as well

for you to get a full 930 gear jsut from the chests you need 17 weeks AT THE VERY LEAST, does that sound more rewarding than mythic raiding where you're decked in 930+ gear after 2-3 months at most?

and as i said if the 15 ilvl differnece stays, the 3 azerite pieces are gonna be flat out better throughout the entire game if you get them from a mythic raid.

You can clear a raid once per week on each difficulty - you can *spam* mythic+ keys for loot. I'm pretty sure if a 20 man raid group spent 3 hours a night spamming mythic+ they would get better gear through titanforging than just running the raid.

Hell right now the only thing stopping mythic+ titanforged gear being BIS is the tier set bonuses - a 950 trinket from mythic+ will be BIS for most specs over the few you get in raids, unless they drastically reduce the chance to TF then spamming mythic+ will just be better.

[Onikaroshi]

QFT, I'm averaging about 1 upgrade a month from the chest, the rest is crap. I got 3 necks in a row.

And you can go three weeks in a row not getting an item from a raid, its just luck and RNG. You could roll some crazy luck and be full mythic gear in 3 weeks through M+ if they don't change anything for BfA.

[grexly75]

I don't know a single person that raids for set bonuses and I pity anyone who does. I can't imagine spending that much time doing something you don't enjoy for a bonus that 90% of the time doesn't make a single bit of difference outside of parses...

The problem I found with tier set bonuses was if you got something that was far and away better in secondary stats, you can't use it because you break your set bonus.. Which makes things more difficult if you only have four of the six available pieces, as you can't replace it with another piece..

[Niwes]

if the game continue being somelike as it is in Legion, with stuff (mechanic wise) like relics, traits, L‘s, WF/TF, etc. i DEFENITELLY be happy when tier sets are gone.

i would like a non diablofied version better, but WHEN they go this route, then for the love of god without tier sets.

[iperson]

You kidding me? lol Some set bonuses are so powerful they practically define the class.

lol. if that were true that only illustrates the problem with them... most of them you won't even notice off of paper though.

Death Coil has a X% chance to deal damage a second time.

yup, that's class defining.

While Demon Spikes is active, your parry chance is increased by an additional 0%.

totally going to change your gameplay with that one.

[Rekz]

This will definitely be addressed in Thursday's QA as the information was strategically released today. It's still too early to formulate an opinion on this but I did encounter issues with legendaries taking up Tier set slots that would've given me set bonuses and that was certainly frustrating.

It'll be interesting to hear more about the new azurite system and how it will replace tier set bonuses.

[Onikaroshi]

The problem I found with tier set bonuses was if you got something that was far and away better in secondary stats, you can't use it because you break your set bonus.. Which makes things more difficult if you only have four of the six available pieces, as you can't replace it with another piece..

And that's why I keep mentioning something like Raid and even M+ exclusive azurite talents. They could have 1 that is on all shoulders in a tier or something, that way you can pick your stats, or if you don't like that talent you don't need to wear it, you can go get the M+ one or something, but no item ever affects another item.

Like I've tried to convey, the only thing I'm pissed about is them taking away sets without adding an alternative.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

The problem I found with tier set bonuses was if you got something that was far and away better in secondary stats, you can't use it because you break your set bonus.. Which makes things more difficult if you only have four of the six available pieces, as you can't replace it with another piece..

That's the crux of the issue and why the set bonuses are going away of sorts. I had an idea of just increasing the stats of Tier sets to even bigger(Honestly I always felt tier sets should be sorta the end gear you get but that's me).

[grexly75]

I'm not saying they drop it in beta, but them announcing that they're taking something away from raiding and then leaving it is going to ruffle feathers. If they had just said "We're taking away sets from raiding but don't worry because...." it would be a different conversation.

And in a way they did by saying that they are baking those options into the Azerite system.. So if from what they have said it sounds like they are just transferring them to the new system..

[Onikaroshi]

This will definitely be addressed in Thursday's QA as the information was strategically released today. It's still too early to formulate an opinion on this but I did encounter issues with legendaries taking up Tier set slots that would've given me set bonuses and that was certainly frustrating.

It'll be interesting to hear more about the new azurite system and how it will replace tier set bonuses.

It's never too early to have an opinion on something, but in this world, it can be too late.