Class Balancing... no thanks

[Deleted]

Back those days every class had its purpose, dps heal tanks support aka hybrids.... which is a major factor as an rpg element everyone loved. Nowerdays everyone can do everything and class is just a matter of flavour which rotation you prefer.

I see it like this...take the army for example, a flightdeck operator on an aircraft carrer will never fight like a navy seal...makes him that less important for combat ? No because hes doing a job and providing something to the whole that only he can do. And there we go...

If you want to top dps in Classic u know what class you take, if you want to tank you know which class is for you, if you want to heal there are like 3 options on the table, support and pvp you know which class is for you.

See it like a real rpg or even a tabletop game...the scout is not the one who can deal massive damage but he is important for the whole party and so on... i think games like lol or dota have that in a way , dd tank heal support and you have the freedom to choose what you wanna be.... imagine games like Overwatch had it like everyone on top of their abilities does the same damage...makes no sense.

And i think this class balance shit is just about everyone wanna be top dd but as their favourite class.....forget about that, vanilla was never about that it was about working together even in bgs.

I dont say it was all perfect but classbalancing would destroy a classic wow. If there will be a class balancing I also want a mountquest at level 40 so everyone can have a mount for free... oh wait we allready have that in legion.

[McFuu]

Yes, everyone had their roles, dps, healer, and tank. Except only 1 class can tank and half the dps aren't taken into raids because they aren't viable. What's the role of those classes? Gather herbs?
Your argument falls on it's face when proper class fantasy that your advocating, means nothing when if a class provides an increased utility to a team, but isn't taken because they can't make up the disparity in damage.

[Annedrooo]

For me it's a tradeoff longterm versus short term. Providing an authentic vanilla experience is what will draw people in initially but no class changes ever could seriously hurt the game's longevity. I would like class balancing but probably not right away.

[Ealyssa]

There never was a support role in vanilla. Only players maintaining this fantasy are the one who never played in vanilla.

I played enh shaman back thn, I just was never picked for pretty much anything. Because the spec actually sucked, period. I liked wow a lot, I liked my characer a lot, still was garbage.

Changed a bit in BC with enh and shadow priests being buffbots and mana batteries. Still only worked in raid as you were pretty much useless in dungeon (the joy of never being taken in magister terrasse because "you no cc").

I agree that spec balance shouldn't be a thing if blizzard want classic to taste somewhat vanilla. But enough with this bullshit "hybrid aka support" hybrid never was a thing. Hybrid was a "hey you're classe can do damage and/or healing and/or tanking, but it actually sucks at any of these" thing.

[RapBreon]

Yes, everyone had their roles, dps, healer, and tank. Except only 1 class can tank and half the dps aren't taken into raids because they aren't viable. What's the role of those classes? Gather herbs?
Your argument falls on it's face when proper class fantasy that your advocating, means nothing when if a class provides an increased utility to a team, but isn't taken because they can't make up the disparity in damage.

I think back in the days of considerably worse tuning, damage checks weren't the big deal. Blizzard could get away with it. Be interesting to see a more modern audience with a higher focus on the deeps react.

The idea of a supporter/buffer/niche roles in an RPG is highly appealing (I don't want to be one, but I want to have them).

[archelos91]

I think the op forgot that only 1 in 3 specs were viable for most classes, want to play a boomkin? youre not raiding, want to play an affliction warlock? youre not raiding

[Hunterwep]

Every class in Vanilla had some over powered Gimmick or Tricks they could use.
If they are going to tune everything for raids, these unique blowouts might vanish ...

Also Vanilla was more about getting 40 people in a raid and just make them do what is told.
Bosses did not have an enrage timer back then so needing x-amount of DPS to beat the Enrage Timer wasn't an issue.

Think of it, it worked back then, it will work now also.

[kary]

I think the op forgot that only 1 in 3 specs were viable for most classes, want to play a boomkin? youre not raiding, want to play an affliction warlock? youre not raiding

I mean, SM/Ruin was an affliction spec. 30 aff / 21 destro.

[Deleted]

There never was a support role in vanilla. Only players maintaining this fantasy are the one who never played in vanilla.

I played enh shaman back thn, I just was never picked for pretty much anything. Because the spec actually sucked, period. I liked wow a lot, I liked my characer a lot, still was garbage.

Changed a bit in BC with enh and shadow priests being buffbots and mana batteries. Still only worked in raid as you were pretty much useless in dungeon (the joy of never being taken in magister terrasse because "you no cc").

I agree that spec balance shouldn't be a thing if blizzard want classic to taste somewhat vanilla. But enough with this bullshit "hybrid aka support" hybrid never was a thing. Hybrid was a "hey you're classe can do damage and/or healing and/or tanking, but it actually sucks at any of these" thing.

Yeah. The first time I have encountered support classes was when I started playing LOTRO. WoW never had some. It only had badly designed specs.

[McFuu]

I think back in the days of considerably worse tuning, damage checks weren't the big deal. Blizzard could get away with it. Be interesting to see a more modern audience with a higher focus on the deeps react.

The idea of a supporter/buffer/niche roles in an RPG is highly appealing (I don't want to be one, but I want to have them).

I think what really is confusing people is the disparity here. In current retail the difference between bottom and top dps is maybe 5 to 10% dmg (I'm talking full on patchwerk, same "item lvl"). So if you are a better player on a worse class, you are better do than a top dps. For the most part unless you are pushing world first all classes are viable. This basically means within their role of dps you can play what you want. That is a very good thing, balanced classes don't ruin class identity at all.
Vanilla is a bit of a different game though. Utility is an actual thing, being able to cc, throw up a heal, taunt, etc... Were very important in wow classic. Especially considering there wasn't homogenization, which is a good thing, because that also supports class identity.
But in the dps role the difference between top and bottom dps is 75-100%, god help you if you were slightly outside of gear, or maybe you had a piece that wasn't itemized correctly, you could be talking 2 to 3 times more damage even though your "item lvl" (not a thing in vanilla but people are definitely going to add-on it) is pretty similar.

What's the raw cost of utility? How much less damage should enh or ele shaman do than rogues and mages to make up the difference in utility? This isn't an easy question, but doing half as much damage is definitely not the answer. Maybe 10-20% less damage.
Nothing about that balance ruins class fantasy or identity. It strengthens it if anything. Xyz is a really good player and he brings an extra heal and totems, let's bring him over random mage zyx. That didn't happen in vanilla, it forced to player xyz to roll mage or basically never play. That's not class identity, that is exclusion based on bad balance.

[Daedius]

No... class balancing was non-existent in Vanilla... even Blizzard have said so themselves, saying they didn't have that "philosophy" back then. It's why Vanilla was so saturated with Rogues...

I'd more than welcome tweaks to it.

[Mushkins]

Ferals/retry palas shouldn't deal as much damage as rogues, period.

[Sesethi]

OP must be a rogue,war or lock

[noidentity]

Ah the good old days when I was only invited to a raid because I specced into Innervate.

Mages loved me

[Fight4Fun]

One balance patch to make all specs sorta viable is must happen stuff.

[MasterHamster]

From what I've seen so far, they might as well remove all classes but Warr/Priest/Mage/Rogue. I mean with no balance changes, and assuming they won't make any either, why would anyone roll anything else. I'm seriously concerned about how awful class representation will end up being.
Though I guess you can take the opportunity to guarantee yourself a raid spot by providing a Soulstone.

Look at the threads about class choices and you almost forget that druid, paladin, warlock or hunters even exist.

[Deleted]

People claiming nobody will play class X are ridiculous, we already saw from nostalrius and elysium that that's very much not the case. Just give the people vanilla, you have to take the good with the bad. Release it just like it was. This project isn't for everyone - if you feel every spec should be viable, this isn't for you. Please do not ruin it from the people who it is for, and who very much has showed that they exist and will play for more than a month

[Deleted]

Yeah. The first time I have encountered support classes was when I started playing LOTRO. WoW never had some. It only had badly designed specs.

I considered our paladin providing seals and blessings as support in our raid class back those days...

- - - Updated - - -

OP must be a rogue,war or lock

Nah i was a Warrior back then.

[Mackeith]

Just out of curiosity, the ones asking for balance changes, do you also disagree with the notion of fire elementals being immune to fire damage, so you can't play Fire spec as a mage when raiding MC for instance?

[Florena]

If specs could be balanced without messing up the metagame at large I'd be fine with it, but with vanilla's poor itemization and not having different set bonuses for hybrids etc, I feel like trying to fix the balance in vanilla could just lead to unraveling things too much. So it's a tricky situation for me. I don't like where a lot of the specs were in vanilla but on the other hand, fixing them coul lead to bigger issues.