Traditional raid tier sets will be removed with BfA

[SFBayGamer]

M+ will be better than current tier Mythic raiding because Blizzard as a company is investing alot in the esports side of their game systems. Alot. Like Blizzcon felt like a multimedia mega sporting event this year and not a trade show for video gaming.

Im sure there will be reasons to raid like unique trinkets etc. but there is no reason to think the current ilvl paradigm will change which is M10+ right now is 5 ilvls > mythic TOS tier gear.

Mythic raiding will be close to top end M+ but I fully expect M+ to sit at the top:
1.) M+ weekly chest to dovetail into the MDI esports events
2.) likely a top end PVP/Arena weekly reward to dovetail into the WOW Arena esports
then mythic raiding (slightly behind M+15), heroic (slightly behind M+10) and normal (slightly behind M+5?).

[Tabrotar]

That is an utter ludicrous belief.

There is literally no chance they haven't though this through and discussed it far more than you, far more thoughtfully, and far less emotionally.

That you believe otherwise is completely bizarre and not reflective of reality. This is literally their job. Whereas for you it's some shit you post about idly on message boards.

Ah yes shure just like so many many changes which where utterly fucked up and shit right?

Like changing some classes even if anyone has pointet out that would be shit and then who would have guessed after the first few weeks life the had to change it back because it was shit but noo ofc Blizz can´t do anything wrong...

Or the legendarys in legion everyone has pointet out that not being able to get a specific one would be shit and what did Blizz do? Exactly that and it was shit and they even admitted it.

So i call bullshit with your fucking ridiculuss "Blizz has thought this through" statement.

[Deleted]

Patch 9.0: raid tier sets to be added back into the game!

New feature, like raid buffs and actually next to *none* class changes. Innovative game design.

[Mirishka]

Good riddance.

If I had a gold for every awesome upgrade I haven't been able to use because of breaking a precious set bonus, I could buy... well, something. That has irked me for as long as I can remember.

[Eurhetemec]

So i call bullshit with your fucking ridiculuss "Blizz has thought this through" statement.

I am terribly concerned that someone who can't even spell is "calling bullshit" on this, without even bothering to read what I'm saying.

They will have thought it through and discussed it more than you. Period.

Does that mean it's automatically a good idea? No. Blizzard do fuck up fairly regularly. But if we put the sort of people who say "IM SMAERTERER THEN BLIZZ!!" in charge, how often would they fuck up then? 24/7, I'd say. People here often have incredibly "raw dough" ideas (not even "half-baked") which they loudly insist are the best ever.

Blizzard discuss all this stuff. They think it though. Sometimes they reach wrong conclusions. More often they reach right ones. That's a lot better than "people on the internet" manage.

[Eli85]

I rarely post, but I do want to respond to this thread.

There is a lot of overblown reactions to this change, and a lot of archaic reasons for raiding being used as a counter towards it. Everyone, admittedly, raids for their own reasons, but with the addition of transmog, realities of adult life, and quite frankly, the player base growing up and becoming more mature, the showing off of raid exclusive gear, higher item levels, and putting the casuals in awe, well, that doesn't seem (to me), or to the devs, as a valid incentive to raiding anymore. Raiding has been, and always will be, about the challenge and sense of accomplishment, and it's something that even M+ (at very high keys) cannot touch. Sure, we've all seen the crazy videos of very high M+ keys, however, when you add players, challenge increases exponentially, and so 5-player content will never come close to that.

In short, what I'm saying is, if you're raiding mythic content exclusively for gear, higher item levels, and making lesser players feel inadequate, well, you're in it for the wrong reasons, I think. In addition, I'd like to think that most mythic players are in it for the challenge and sense of accomplishment, which this recent change does not impact. If anything, this change may improve the raiding scene by deincentivizing raiding for the toxic players who only care about gear, and not the success of the raid group.

The benefits to this change are also wonderful: upwards of 6 slots are no longer locked to tier. If you get an upgrade, equip it. On Live, I'm a Resto Druid, and it feels really bad that I have to wear 4 905 pieces because the t19 set bonuses are so broken, meanwhile I have 930s and 940s that are unusable. Yeah, a counter would be, "well Blizzard should balance the set bonuses better." I agree, they should, but over the years they've demonstrated that they can't. So it's a positive change.

Just one mythic raider's opinion.

[Tabrotar]

Sorry but i´m not the one who said Blizz is right (because that´s what saying "the thought it trough" means) here that´s you.

And they fucked up more then enough to have second thoughts about the whole thing.

[Softbottom]

I rarely post, but I do want to respond to this thread.

There is a lot of overblown reactions to this change, and a lot of archaic reasons for raiding being used as a counter towards it. Everyone, admittedly, raids for their own reasons, but with the addition of transmog, realities of adult life, and quite frankly, the player base growing up and becoming more mature, the showing off of raid exclusive gear, higher item levels, and putting the casuals in awe, well, that doesn't seem (to me), or to the devs, as a valid incentive to raiding anymore. Raiding has been, and always will be, about the challenge and sense of accomplishment, and it's something that even M+ (at very high keys) cannot touch. Sure, we've all seen the crazy videos of very high M+ keys, however, when you add players, challenge increases exponentially, and so 5-player content will never come close to that.

In short, what I'm saying is, if you're raiding mythic content exclusively for gear, higher item levels, and making lesser players feel inadequate, well, you're in it for the wrong reasons, I think. In addition, I'd like to think that most mythic players are in it for the challenge and sense of accomplishment, which this recent change does not impact. If anything, this change may improve the raiding scene by deincentivizing raiding for the toxic players who only care about gear, and not the success of the raid group.

The benefits to this change are also wonderful: upwards of 6 slots are no longer locked to tier. If you get an upgrade, equip it. On Live, I'm a Resto Druid, and it feels really bad that I have to wear 4 905 pieces because the t19 set bonuses are so broken, meanwhile I have 930s and 940s that are unusable. Yeah, a counter would be, "well Blizzard should balance the set bonuses better." I agree, they should, but over the years they've demonstrated that they can't. So it's a positive change.

Just one mythic raider's opinion.

This guy gets a gold medal.

[Orby]

I am not really as upset as I thought I would be, I was just like "yea, okay, whatever" I mean tier raid sets were going to go that way, I am surpised it took them this long, when Dungeon sets were killed off I expected raid sets to be killed off in Cata or MoP.

[Dug]

I think I'm misunderstanding but do they just mean raid set bonuses or unique sets for classes are scrapped entirely? A lot have been uninspired garbage the past few years sure but I still think every class should get a unique set of armor from raids not just Cloth/Leather/Plate/Mail sets

[Onikaroshi]

I rarely post, but I do want to respond to this thread.

There is a lot of overblown reactions to this change, and a lot of archaic reasons for raiding being used as a counter towards it. Everyone, admittedly, raids for their own reasons, but with the addition of transmog, realities of adult life, and quite frankly, the player base growing up and becoming more mature, the showing off of raid exclusive gear, higher item levels, and putting the casuals in awe, well, that doesn't seem (to me), or to the devs, as a valid incentive to raiding anymore. Raiding has been, and always will be, about the challenge and sense of accomplishment, and it's something that even M+ (at very high keys) cannot touch. Sure, we've all seen the crazy videos of very high M+ keys, however, when you add players, challenge increases exponentially, and so 5-player content will never come close to that.

In short, what I'm saying is, if you're raiding mythic content exclusively for gear, higher item levels, and making lesser players feel inadequate, well, you're in it for the wrong reasons, I think. In addition, I'd like to think that most mythic players are in it for the challenge and sense of accomplishment, which this recent change does not impact. If anything, this change may improve the raiding scene by deincentivizing raiding for the toxic players who only care about gear, and not the success of the raid group.

The benefits to this change are also wonderful: upwards of 6 slots are no longer locked to tier. If you get an upgrade, equip it. On Live, I'm a Resto Druid, and it feels really bad that I have to wear 4 905 pieces because the t19 set bonuses are so broken, meanwhile I have 930s and 940s that are unusable. Yeah, a counter would be, "well Blizzard should balance the set bonuses better." I agree, they should, but over the years they've demonstrated that they can't. So it's a positive change.

Just one mythic raider's opinion.

You make it sound like you can't raid for gear AND success of the group, the two are not mutually exclusive. I raid half for my team and half to gear my characters, gearing characters is fun to me, the game is based around it, its why I could never get into GW2.

[Lucavian]

Source: http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/a...ampaign=buffer

So yeah, we kinda saw this coming with not only the Heart of Azeroth targeting 3 traditional tier slots, but also the fact that titanforging is here to stay.

Personally, I'm conflicted. Tier bonuses usually add some flavour, but with the insane Legion titanforging pretty much disabling you to equip that 940 BiS stats piece as to not break your 4piece, it's for the better.

Your thoughts?
Also apologies in advance if this has already been discussed.

I don't mind the stats, but I will miss the unique class armor. Now plate is plate and mail is mail =\

[gallamann]

This is pretty typical of new-blizzard.

-Take a traditional system (tier sets)
-Make a small change to them that people hate (titanforging/2set+4set)
-Instead of reversing new change, scrap the traditional system entirely

Disagree, tier sets have always been an issue.

- Some specs tier bonuses just make it flat out OP, others they just are horrible. This has been a problem since T1
- Blizzard is constantly using set bonuses to correct core mechanic issues instead of fixing the core mechanic
- You hate TF/2pc prior 4pc current, claiming that everyone does is a crock of shit
- removal of tier sets free you up to use an upgrade at those slots. Countless times this expac I have passed on upgrades because it was tier slot.
- Personal Loot does NOT drop a token, no longer will I feel shitty because that tier piece would have filled another class that shares my token 2pc or 4pc
- Raids that can Master Loot prioritize 2pc and 4pc bonuses, meaning it is possible one can get no tier due to how RNG falls for over a month

Personally I think reason Blizzard is ditching them is about balancing issues they cause and to eliminate biggest gripe about personal loot (can't trade a priest drop to a paladin)

[shaunika123]

Easier to field 5 players that can clear a +15 then 15-30 players that can clear Heroic in reasonable time. Even bad heroic guilds have really good players.

yes but those good heroic players are there for a reason, they could easily leave and get into better guilds if they are actually better. and if they're there for their friends then isnt it great that they can raid heroic with them, but those 4-5 better players that dont want to leave also have the option to challenge themselves in mythic+?

the two can coexist in harmony, it doesnt have to be a competition

[RogueGiraffe]

I like how they are removing tier bonuses, it makes it so you have more options for your traditional tier slots.

[Teri]

Ever since the 8/8 netherwind classic mage tier 2 bonus I felt restricted on wearing naxx gear.

The bonus was amazing, but the feeling of not getting any armor upgrades was pretty crappy.

Of course that's the extreme end with a 8 piece set, and sets became a lot more flexible, but the whole 2+4 piece mumbo jumbo was pretty silly as well, almost diablo 3-ish.

[Deleted]

I like it. Finally I can open my mythic+ chest and not have 4-6 slots where it's RIP item.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Patch 9.0: raid tier sets to be added back into the game!

And raidbuffs will be removed again .

[Onikaroshi]

yes but those good heroic players are there for a reason, they could easily leave and get into better guilds if they are actually better. and if they're there for their friends then isnt it great that they can raid heroic with them, but those 4-5 better players that dont want to leave also have the option to challenge themselves in mythic+?

the two can coexist in harmony, it doesnt have to be a competition

I'm not even asking for a competition. Just raid exclusive and mythic plus exclusive Traits. Make it so raiding traits work better for raiding, so that you RAID to get better RAIDING gear. Make it so Mythic Plus traits work better for dungeons, so that you do Mythic Plus to get better at Mythic Plus.

Right now you raid to do better at mythic plus and I think that's more of an issue even then "locked slots".

However if you end up with, you do whatever to get better at everything then people take whatever is the path of least resistance.

[ItsTiddles]

Raiding has been, and always will be, about the challenge and sense of accomplishment, and it's something that even M+ (at very high keys) cannot touch. Sure, we've all seen the crazy videos of very high M+ keys, however, when you add players, challenge increases exponentially, and so 5-player content will never come close to that.

I agree with what you said for the most part, but this chunk, in my opinion, is debatable. I haven't been raiding for a long time, I tickled DS in Cata, but I really started for the first time in WOD and didn't touch mythic until towards the end of BRH. However, I thoroughly enjoyed getting cutting edge and pushing myself to be higher in progression with each final boss. That being said, completing a m+ dungeon and having it ranked in the top 100 world has been far more rewarding to me. Pushing myself and my class to the limit makes me feel a higher sense of accomplishment than depending on 19 other people to do mechanics without a mess up.