Is Blizzard actively trying to kill the raiding scene?

[primalmatter]

Blizzard has to race to keep up with the raiding community which has been doing pretty well on its own to minimize the number of people who participate in organized raiding.

Casual open world play is the bread-and-butter for World of Warcraft at this point. Not the less-than 25% who never kill a boss in a guild group. I don't make judgments about players based on what they're wearing.

Raiders at the high end haven't changed. They are the stones in the riverbed unmoving and unchanging. It is just another step to simplifying the game in a desperate attempt to hide poor performers like a crooked shell game.

[Trapped]

But....you can still 10man raid.......

No, no you can't. As I previously stated, if you go into "flex" with 10 people, you're probably gimping your raid group. There is no strict 10-man raid size anymore.

[Dakara]

I've felt the Tier Set Bonuses have been out of fashion for a while now. Having to equip a sub-optimal item over a better itemized/higher ilvl one purely for the set bonus has grown tiresome. Especially when some specs are tuned around having the bonus but are garbage without it.

I'm all for Set bonuses, but change it up each Tier, vary the slots. Perhaps have a 2 rings combo, or a ring/neck bonus... a helm and cloak etc etc. They don't have to be class specific either. Could be something as simple as a +stat proc.

Removing Tier Sets entirely however, would be a huge mistake imo. The last thing we want is a single Graphic for each armor type every tier.

[h4rr0d]

That's how it is currently, nothing points to it being the same in BfA. Also, one item doesn't make your whole character stronger. A few pieces of your gear won't be able to titanforge, so the only way to get them at high ilvl is to do mythic raids.

They said they liked it. Also they said they liked how relinquished gear worked out. And that's a full set of almost heroic gear available at the rate of about 5 pieces a week if you don't push it. Granted, it is aimed as catchup for the next raid, but it is readily available for the majority of previous raid's lifespan. And given how they space out raid releases and patches and how they said they liked it, I really doubt it'll be too much different in BfA.

[adamzz]

They said they liked it. Also they said they liked how relinquished gear worked out. And that's a full set of almost heroic gear available at the rate of about 5 pieces a week if you don't push it. Granted, it is aimed as catchup for the next raid, but it is readily available for the majority of previous raid's lifespan. And given how they space out raid releases and patches and how they said they liked it, I really doubt it'll be too much different in BfA.

Catchup mechanics at the end of an expansion is fine. Relinquished gear won't exist until close to the last raid. Also, it's close to heroic ilvl in ToS but it's not heroic ilvl in ToS and it certainly isn't mythic ilvl. So raiding mythic still yields better gear, your point is?

[Fjordkeeper]

Tier sets going away is a good thing.
I freaking hated them ever since wotlk where I've got my first one and I've been hoping for them to go away every damn expansion.

Now they are finally gone.

Oh man! I'm looking forward to replacing my old items with new ones, without having to put them on my bank simply because my damage would drop drastically if I break my set bonus.

[Fenixhart]

Set bonuses are just a headache at this point.

Don't care that they're leaving. Set those slots free!

[Emerald Archer]

But loot and gear was the carrot on the stick. It kept you coming back. And the satisfaction of finally downing that boss your team has struggled with is the reason we raid. But getting that epic tier piece, weapon, trinket, etc was the icing on the cake. Tier sets are unique to raiding. If you look at a player and see they are item level 930 but have no tier you can tell they dont raid. But if you look at a player with item level 930 and you see heroic or even mythic tier gear, you know they have beaten some of the hardest content in the game.

You know, a soloution that may be happening, that we don't know about yet, is that Mythic raiding gear could just be a higher level than what is otherwise attainable at base.

930 was only matched by a once a week chest, that most of the time doesn't contain an upgrade. So mythic CLEARLY was a much much better way to get gear. And then later into the raids life, world bosses gave 930, again, once a week, and good chance nothing drops, but most importantly, this came out well after the raids release.

There was only 1 other source of 930 gear, and it's a once a week complete gamble, with a really high chance of not being an upgrade. Grats, enjoy waiting 14 weeks at the VERY least to fill your character out with base mythic gear.

When you get into TF it changes, gear can TF to mythic level and higher, but mythic gear can tf aswell, so those 3 tf rolls you got on that 915 piece, making it equal to a 930? Well if you got that on a mythic piece, that's a 945 item right there.

So mythic raids, tier aside, are still the best source of gear. Sure you could not mythic raid, but then you are getting significantly less gear. Yes mythic raiders have gear from a variety of sources, but what about those slots filled with mythic raiding gear? What would replace those? 915 items? That's a pretty big loss.

I'd like to see mythic raids be a step above other gear in ilvl next xpac, so where we had a weekly chest and world boss give potential 930 upgrades, we'd have the raid give 935 or 940.

[Yassy]

One of many complaints about tier has been that the stats on certain pieces suck for my spec. They are adamant about not returning reforging, fine. Instead, now you will be able to target as much of your specs stats.

And i think they want to add more sets like they Suramar Dungeon, Karazhan, and Argus dungeons. Every raid tier they have to shuffle bonuses around and get constant complaints about how my tier bonus sucks or my tier should be base line. This gives them more flexibility in creating interesting universal sets: and allows then to be more inclined to return old set bonuses to be base line. Or just come up with a passive thats interesting for a class and actually give it to them, instead of locking it to a tier and inevitably retiring it indefinitely.

[nekobaka]

We still do not know how one will earn those bonuses. It is possible one will still have to raid in order to obtain them at which point this is good for raiders in offering more flexibility in gearing. Otherwise as long as alternatives to non-raid content as an endgame continues to be supported then I expect the LFR or die camp to raise a fuss next expansion.

[ls-]

One of many complaints about tier has been that the stats on certain pieces suck for my spec.

Heh, IIRC, Blizz admitted that they're doing it on purpose to avoid making tier pieces even more OP, having both set bonus and ideal stats is too much.

[Dyra]

No, no you can't. As I previously stated, if you go into "flex" with 10 people, you're probably gimping your raid group. There is no strict 10-man raid size anymore.

It's not as bad as all that. My guild and I do 10 man all the time, even on progress. Though KJ and Mistress, on a small raid size were significant hurdles until we out-geared (in the case of Mistress) or the boss was nerfed (KJ). On the flip side, Maiden and Host were probably easier as a small raid group since you have more room and fewer people to trip up and screw over the whole raid.

[Mic_128]

Hopefully this opens the door for more 'mini-sets' such as the trinket/ring set or the 2-piece from Kara, preferably more towards fun and flavourful. I think the Dragonsoul set bonus were one of the best where as a druid I had a chance on spellcast of summoning a little treant.

[Deleted]

Another thread from people who can't understand the reasoning behind tier bonus removal.

[Deleted]

Yes, they want us to do mythic+ instead. (makes them more money)

lol, how it makes them more money? O.o

[Deleted]

lol, how it makes them more money? O.o

It doesn't but the retardness in this forum is so strong that anything can be.

[Devilyaki]

maybe, they did put a big stress on the m+ stuff complete with a tournament and all for it. They want wow the next esport?

[Deleted]

Most players don't care for raiding. And I bet if they looked at statistics they noticed maybe 90% is subs never raid.

It's a dated playing environment compared to all the other online gaming group activities that are offered.

I'm glad they are killing it off. I can barely raid anymore myself due to time restrictions. And I was a mythic raider. Luckily I can get the mythic gear sets in the next expansion easily for transmog.

[Eazy]

lol, how it makes them more money? O.o

Well, though I'm not agreeing with it, I could explain his thinking:
5-man more rewarding - less players needed for raiding(it even rhymes!).
It's easier to find 4 other people than 9-29(or 19 for mythic).

And I'm 100% sure that more people are doing their weekly chests(+10) than people who are raiding on the mythic level. They noticed that their idea with dungeons is blooming, so they're expanding it and also reducing raiding(no longer tier set bonuses).

[Deleted]

Well, though I'm not agreeing with it, I could explain his thinking:
5-man more rewarding - less players needed for raiding(it even rhymes!).
It's easier to find 4 other people than 9-29(or 19 for mythic).

Still, doesn't make sense. Blizz got money from our gametime which you pay in advance. And not from what you do in that time you have. So if you go 1000 dungeons or 1 raid doesn't matter.