Battle for Azeroth Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[rda]

I understand the collection aspect, I'm not a hardcore achievement hunter by any standards but I like knowing that one thing is "done".
But I also find the reaction of some people disproportionate especially since they are not removing them but moving them to legacy. If you did the achievement before the change it means that you collected something that isn't available anymore making your collection better than those who didn't.

Let's get two things straight, because this appeared multiple times.

1. If an achievement is removed from the main list, it does not matter much whether it is removed altogether or moved into the Legacy section. Because whatever you think about the Legacy section - whether the achievements there don't count or whether they do count, the effect is exactly the same: you are disincentivised from continuing the collection until it at least becomes clear which achievements are going to move into the Legacy section and which are going to stay in the main list.

2. The point that an achievement in the Legacy section is worth more because it is no longer obtainable is a double-edged sword and that sword is *very* sharp, unaffordably so. If you subscribe to the notion that an achievement in the Legacy section is worth more because it is no longer obtainable, you are stuck with a low value collection with tons of unfillable holes. Because you don't have tons of things that can appear in the Legacy section. That's exactly why you don't count items in the Legacy section at all, if you are a collector, because if you counted them, you are just doomed and it doesn't make much sense to collect the scraps that you can collect.

I hope this helps understand the point. No offense, but whenever you hear "it's not removed" and "it got more valuable" wrt a change like this, you can be absolutely sure that whoever you are hearing it from is not a collector / didn't think it through.

[Syegfryed]

If hes ten you must be a fetus. He said you shouldnt freak out when u dont even know how it works.

ffs if i freak out or no is for me to decide, just ignore

and complaint don't always mean, ragging, cause yes i prefer to complaint before something happens when things can change, than complaint after when it will be meaningless

[Ursiel]

MMO-C complains about anything. Crying because of legacy achievements. And I thought I'd seen it all.

[rda]

MMO-C complains about anything. Crying because of legacy achievements. And I thought I'd seen it all.

Most of all, MMO-C complains about the complainers. Some say that's popular because it takes no brain. You can just copy / paste silly one-liners from your previous complaints, they are interchangeable.

[Yarathir]

Most of all, MMO-C complains about the complainers. Some say that's popular because it takes no brain. You can just copy / paste silly one-liners from your previous complaints, they are interchangeable.

This. It's easy to be snarky and dismissive when it's about something you don't care about.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

This. It's easy to be snarky and dismissive when it's about something you don't care about.

Doesn't mean ppl's complaints are something to be up in arms about.

[Yarathir]

Doesn't mean ppl's complaints are something to be up in arms about.

Entirely subjective. I don't care at all for achievement points for instance, but if someone finds them important, losing a whole lot of them out of nowhere can be annoying. Not everyone has the same priorities.

[Zorish]

Regarding lore / world. This used to be notable, but it was being eroded for years with Blizzard writing bad and illogical lore that is quite hard to like if you get familiar with it and try following it for real. I don't know how big that factor can be today because "did you hear that Illidan is now wielding light?" - "damn, Blizzard are being stupid again, then again what could we expect" has been going on for more than a half of the game. The story with WoW lore lovers is this: you "love" lore until you get to know it, if you ever have time to familiarize yourself with it, you can cross that "love" off the list because you are heading for a session of disillusionment.

sad for you. i am familiar with lore, cause i play from BC. I know very well some of their mistakes. But man - do you see that Illidan actually "wielding the light?" cause i am not. he blasted this Naaru who wanted him as her "choosen", so... And most of the times when i saw "blizzard being stupid with lore", come from people who (like the last example) don't understand why Nightborne choose Horde over Aliance, while blizzard created ground for that during legion already (and if you say that "this ground is stupid"... well - first this is not SWTOR with their dialogs, second - then go and write better, and make your own game). It's not bad and it's not good - lore is a matter of perspective (guided by your own desires and butthurts when blizzard didn't do as you wanted)

[rda]

sad for you. i am familiar with lore, cause i play from BC. I know very well some of their mistakes. But man - do you see that Illidan actually "wielding the light?" cause i am not. he blasted this Naaru who wanted him as her "choosen", so... And most of the times when i saw "blizzard being stupid with lore", come from people who (like the last example) don't understand why Nightborne choose Horde over Aliance, while blizzard created ground for that during legion already (and if you say that "this ground is stupid"... well - first this is not SWTOR with their dialogs, second - then go and write better, and make your own game). It's not bad and it's not good - lore is a matter of perspective (guided by your own desires and butthurts when blizzard didn't do as you wanted)

When I am talking about Blizzard writing bad and illogical lore, I am talking about writing quality. Many of the plot lines are forced. Many are not believable, many are downright stupid. Frequently, the plot lines are boringly predictable. They are very repetitive. Etc. The small lore is okayish, the big lore is an incoherent joke.

Tell me why Nightborne chose Horde over Alliance and tell me it is a good plot reason? I have an idea of what a non-cringy reason would be, but they didn't articulate it, what they articulated so far was trash that is obviously there just to have some justification for a gameplay-induced symmetry.

[Zorish]

When I am talking about Blizzard writing bad and illogical lore, I am talking about writing quality. Many of the plot lines are forced. Many are not believable, many are downright stupid. Frequently, the plot lines are boringly predictable. They are very repetitive. Etc. The small lore is okayish, the big lore is an incoherent joke.

Tell me why Nightborne chose Horde over Alliance and tell me it is a good plot reason? I have an idea of what a non-cringy reason would be, but they didn't articulate it, what they articulated so far was trash that is obviously there just to have some justification for a gameplay-induced symmetry.

well - +12 mark on the game have it's "mark" on lore. Still - if you don't want to see the whole picture as grown up man... well. So be it. You want to ignore that the suramar was in the state of civil war, while under pressure of demons. You want to ignore refugees who want eat, sleep, and be in warm. You want to ignore whole NE "arcanofobic" nature (and they STILL the same and allowed mages back to their ranks under pressure of their burning asses, but they not stoped to look on mages with suspicions). If you want everything like that... well - so be it.

[Makorus]

sad for you. i am familiar with lore, cause i play from BC. I know very well some of their mistakes. But man - do you see that Illidan actually "wielding the light?" cause i am not. he blasted this Naaru who wanted him as her "choosen", so... And most of the times when i saw "blizzard being stupid with lore", come from people who (like the last example) don't understand why Nightborne choose Horde over Aliance, while blizzard created ground for that during legion already (and if you say that "this ground is stupid"... well - first this is not SWTOR with their dialogs, second - then go and write better, and make your own game). It's not bad and it's not good - lore is a matter of perspective (guided by your own desires and butthurts when blizzard didn't do as you wanted)

The Nightborne stuff is stupid because the Nightborne had no reason to choose ANY faction.

What exactly do they gain from being in the Horde, in the greater scheme? Nobody bothered them, they aren't weaklings. Nobody put up an ultimatum. They have a place to stay. They have means to survive, their addiction cured. They just got done being pledged to the Legion, and then they pledge themselves to the Lich Queen? Really?

They just enlistened themselves in a war they have LITERALLY zero stakes in. ZERO. They don't know anything but Suramar. LFD atleast have their family. Highmountain Tauren already were partially allied to the Horde. Void Elves are pissed at the Blood Elves. But Nightborne? No reason. Tyrande was skeptical and doubtful of them, but is that a reason to join a war?

[Aeluron Lightsong]

The Nightborne stuff is stupid because the Nightborne had no reason to choose ANY faction.

What exactly do they gain from being in the Horde, in the greater scheme? Nobody bothered them, they aren't weaklings. Nobody put up an ultimatum. They have a place to stay. They have means to survive, their addiction cured. They just got done being pledged to the Legion, and then they pledge themselves to the Lich Queen? Really?

They just enlistened themselves in a war they have LITERALLY zero stakes in. ZERO. They don't know anything but Suramar. LFD atleast have their family. Highmountain Tauren already were partially allied to the Horde. Void Elves are pissed at the Blood Elves. But Nightborne? No reason. Tyrande was skeptical and doubtful of them, but is that a reason to join a war?

Yeah and was very very harsh, why would the Nightborne go to them? Considering the Blood Elves were more considerate, it's not a shocker they went with them.

[Zorish]

The Nightborne stuff is stupid because the Nightborne had no reason to choose ANY faction.

What exactly do they gain from being in the Horde, in the greater scheme? Nobody bothered them, they aren't weaklings. Nobody put up an ultimatum. They have a place to stay. They have means to survive, their addiction cured. They just got done being pledged to the Legion, and then they pledge themselves to the Lich Queen? Really?

They just enlistened themselves in a war they have LITERALLY zero stakes in. ZERO. They don't know anything but Suramar. LFD atleast have their family. Highmountain Tauren already were partially allied to the Horde. Void Elves are pissed at the Blood Elves. But Nightborne? No reason. Tyrande was skeptical and doubtful of them, but is that a reason to join a war?

oh reeeeeally. so let's imagine. NB overcome their addiction to Nightwell - it's already great deal for BE race (who maybe want to separate them from sunwell too, because if sunwell will be taken again, BE will suffer again yep). Second - Thalyssra need help cause her people in disaster (hunger, civil war, demons, etc.). She clearly not have enough resources for that. What NB can offer? mighty mages, telemancy, arcandor, fresh blood in elven ranks, return of the old families (well this is actuall for both sides, but thanks NE arcanofoby...), milita help (world on the state of war. you really think horde and aliance will leave them alone? one of the best strategic position to open assault on other continent? reeeeeally? don't be shy. say it). NE basicaly sealed fate of NB as Horde allies.

AND YES. i know that this can be my headcanon. but man - at least this one sound logical to me (and as i saw on this forum, not only me), instead being blind to whole picture.

EDIT: and yes - every country need allies. EVERY. country can be neutral only if they not on the way of other country (basicaly in the a** of the world, and still they are in danger), have bad geo for actuall assault, have something too usefull and exclusive so other countries see it's better neutral, and/or have power to dictate this to all enemies. What NB have from this list? N.O.T.H.I.N.G!

[Makorus]

oh reeeeeally. so let's imagine. NB overcome their addiction to Nightwell - it's already great deal for BE race (who maybe want to separate them from sunwell too, because if sunwell will be taken again, BE will suffer again yep). Second - Thalyssra need help cause her people in disaster (hunger, civil war, demons, etc.). She clearly not have enough resources for that. What NB can offer? mighty mages, telemancy, arcandor, fresh blood in elven ranks, return of the old families (well this is actuall for both sides, but thanks NE arcanofoby...), milita help (world on the state of war. you really think horde and aliance will leave them alone? one of the best strategic position to open assault on other continent? reeeeeally? don't be shy. say it). NE basicaly sealed fate of NB as Horde allies.

AND YES. i know that this can be my headcanon. but man - at least this one sound logical to me (and as i saw on this forum, not only me), instead being blind to whole picture.

EDIT: and yes - every country need allies. EVERY. country can be neutral only if they not on the way of other country (basicaly in the a** of the world, and still they are in danger), have bad geo for actuall assault, have something too usefull and exclusive so other countries see it's better neutral, and/or have power to dictate this to all enemies. What NB have from this list? N.O.T.H.I.N.G!

But the NB overcame their addiction and the Nightwell is gone.

Since when is there hunger in Suramar? Demons and the Civil War is mostly quelled and under control. I can understand them if a faction approached them first, but it totally seems like Thalyssra made the first step.

[rcshaggy]

http://www.wowhead.com/news=277715/u...atch-7-3-5-ptr

[Zorish]

But the NB overcame their addiction and the Nightwell is gone.

Since when is there hunger in Suramar? Demons and the Civil War is mostly quelled and under control. I can understand them if a faction approached them first, but it totally seems like Thalyssra made the first step.

If you didn't read the dialoh from ptr - thalyssra think that NE will be her naturall alies... but - well Tyrande and her people shafted them with cold gaze. Noone wanted to be allies with someone who not trust you, while other side welcome you with open arms, giving help, wanted to share knowledge (and if you think about it it's like when you see someone who NOW have same problem as you had/have. it's actually easier to understand him, if this one not complete idiot. Help your kind one day... and other day he can repay with by covering your back in battle).
And by hunger - you must understand that Tree not foundry. it need time to grow fruit. And it have limit. so some suramar citizen can still be "addicted". And second - like simple actuall hunger. You know - when you stomach hurt and you will eat anything? This is war man. Civil war+demons. even if we not see this in game (cause of blizz lazyness, +12 mark or anything), nothing will change that war in your home will take lives and broke souls. It's disaster. And country need time and resources to recover from it. And it's natural that you will look for alies there. If you sell your loyality you want the higher price for you and your people. Price given by Horde was deffinetly better (even if it was unintentional - Liadrin bravo)

[Hellspawn]

the forsaken lost their city.

the alliance take gilneas and stromgarde

wuuuh more human stuff...

[Ilir]

lol rda you are crying about nothing.

But then again you've been crying since MoP....

[Fahrad Wagner]

I'm more than fine with the Ulduar changes, what's all the fuss about?

[plz delete account]

lol rda you are crying about nothing.

But then again you've been crying since MoP....

Finally, someone else agrees with me!