What the hell are we expecting from optimization?

[iCandy]

@OP

How about you post your specs.

I had major performance issues on BWE1 but haven't had a single issue in any beta since then. Seems like they fixed what was broke.

[Delias]

Had no issue on an i5-750 and 5870 @ 1920x1200, and none on Phenom II X4 965 with 5850 @ 1280x1024.

If you're just turning up graphics options for the hell of it, you deserve to have your game running slowly.

I don't even know what to say to that other than 'you're an idiot'. The game is not running as well on some rigs as it should. It runs fine on mine on max, but it lags on TB's and TB's PC probably costs at least 4x what mine costs.

[rhinomatic]

Optimization, per my understanding, allows computers with bells and whistles to actually use those bells and whistles.

That's why people like me who have old computers with no frills seem to do just fine but people with incredibly high end rigs end up underperforming for their specs.

Considering that more people are like me than TB, it makes sense to do it this way.

[Grraarrgghh]

I don't even know what to say to that other than 'you're an idiot'. The game is not running as well on some rigs as it should. It runs fine on mine on max, but it lags on TB's and TB's PC probably costs at least 4x what mine costs.

Well everybody out of the pool.

Might as well not play if the game only runs well on 90% of all hardware.

[Kuntantee]

Considering that more people are like me than TB, it makes sense to do it this way.

The more they optimize their system, the more they will sell their game.

[Delias]

Well everybody out of the pool.

Might as well not play if the game only runs well on 90% of all hardware.

Can't.. roll eyes.. harder...
Might.. fall.. out..

My point is that people with great rigs aren't always getting great performance. Mine is fine, but optimization will hopefully help the people who are not get better performance. Or should we simply shrug off those other people and yell "DEAL WITH IT?" while punching a baby?

[rhinomatic]

The more they optimize their system, the more they will sell their game.

And that's what they're doing.

Make a game that a majority of computer owners can play, then tweak it for the few that have amazing computers.

Do it the other way around and you end up with Age of Conan.

[Zigeuner]

I had two crashes on the recent BWE, both when there was a fuck ton of people around, about 200 on screen, other than that, I ran smoothly using their Auto detect feature (mainly High on everything).

[rhandric]

Delias, my PC is comparable to TBs (though I think he went with the Ivy Bridge i7, compared to my i5-2500k, but we both have the 680), and I had no problem on my system (40 fps on night one of BWE3, 60 fps after that with the occasional drop to ~53 fps). True, he was recording and streaming, which adds overhead (but that's why he has the i7). It also comes down a lot to what people consider playable, for me 60 fps is ideal though 30 fps is playable as long as there's not a lot of stuttering, while others don't consider something playable unless they're getting 120 fps.

And yes, I know (for some) the game is CPU bound, but there's not a significant difference (in architecture or performance, and yes I know the differences) between the i5 2500k (Sandy Bridge) and the i7 Ivy Bridge.

[Malthurius]

For me, the game doesn't tax my GPU like it should, it's mainly just giving my CPU a work out. But it still ran well for me on medium settings, when I turn certain graphic settings up (reflections, shadows, for example) my performance dips in very irregular ways, that are hard to explain. I expect the game to tax my GPU much better come launch, it got gradually better last BWE alone, but perhaps it was simply server side messing with me... it was hard to tell.

[Grraarrgghh]

Can't.. roll eyes.. harder...
Might.. fall.. out..

My point is that people with great rigs aren't always getting great performance. Mine is fine, but optimization will hopefully help the people who are not get better performance. Or should we simply shrug off those other people and yell "DEAL WITH IT?" while punching a baby?

Oh I get your point, but when the game only has a 10% "not what I expected from my hardware" rate it's more or less negligible.

People who literally can't run the game are who I feel for, not the dude with a 3960x and 3x 680s in tri-sli who is only getting 50 fps.

[Delias]

Delias, my PC is comparable to TBs (though I think he went with the Ivy Bridge i7, compared to my i5-2500k, but we both have the 680), and I had no problem on my system (40 fps on night one of BWE3, 60 fps after that with the occasional drop to ~53 fps). True, he was recording and streaming, which adds overhead (but that's why he has the i7). It also comes down a lot to what people consider playable, for me 60 fps is ideal though 30 fps is playable as long as there's not a lot of stuttering, while others don't consider something playable unless they're getting 120 fps.

So my 560ti getting better performance than a 680 is completely acceptable, then? Kind of makes expensive computers worthless. I didn't say anything about the game being unplayable for some with high end computers, but that doesn't make the performance acceptable. There are people who can't run it that can and people who should be able to run it better but can't. If they want to keep as many players as possible, this should be fixed.

[Kaneth]

Water reflections and shadows really drop the performance more than they should.
With a i5 2500 and GTX 560Ti, there isn't a lot of upgrade room.

I have the i5 2500k and a GTX 560Ti and I haven't noticed the same problems. Actually, aside from a few clipping issues here and there, I really haven't noticed any issues at all. I haven't waded into WvWvW yet though.

[Delias]

Oh I get your point, but when the game only has a 10% "not what I expected from my hardware" rate it's more or less negligible.

People who literally can't run the game are who I feel for, not the dude with a 3960x and 3x 680s in tri-sli who is only getting 50 fps.

People who literally can't run the game are who I feel for too. I was simply pointing out (and getting attacked for, for whatever reason) that people saying things like "get a better rig, noob!" is pretty silly when you realize that even some high end setups are getting performance issues.

[Moonsera]

Sandy Bridge i5-2500, Radeon HD5650 Mobile - was streaming in HD in WvW battle with terrible fps. But it was playable anyway :P

[rhandric]

So my 560ti getting better performance than a 680 is completely acceptable, then? Kind of makes expensive computers worthless. I didn't say anything about the game being unplayable for some with high end computers, but that doesn't make the performance acceptable. There are people who can't run it that can and people who should be able to run it better but can't. If they want to keep as many players as possible, this should be fixed.

I'm not saying the 560ti getting better performance than a 680 is acceptable (it's not), I'm saying that some people make more of the issue than it is. Yes, it's an issue, but unless you're a) OCD or b) have a 120 Hz monitor, the difference between 60 fps and 80 fps is non-existent. Even between 50 fps and 60 fps, while there, is negligible.

However, those of us with high-end gaming rigs should be getting the most out of them, and I would agree that there are issues until that's the case. But, at release, the middle 80% of the computer user base is more important than the extreme 10%s.

[Grraarrgghh]

People who literally can't run the game are who I feel for too. I was simply pointing out (and getting attacked for, for whatever reason) that people saying things like "get a better rig, noob!" is pretty silly when you realize that even some high end setups are getting performance issues.

The whole conversation really has been beaten to death by this point anyway. We really don't have a right to start bitching till release, and a lot can happen in a month.

[AdrianCC100]

I have a i5-2500K CPU and a 560 Ti GPU and haven't encountered problems. Although I do turn off shadows and lower the water reflections. I think those two settings do cause poor performance on some computers. Turn them off, it's not like the game is going to suddenly look like crap. The game still looks beautiful with those two graphical settings turned off/tweaked.

[Kuntantee]

The whole conversation really has been beaten to death by this point anyway. We really don't have a right to start bitching till release, and a lot can happen in a month.

There is a saying...Premature optimization is root of all evil. Optimization phase shouldn't start before development is over anyway. Those who bash a game in beta for performance issues is just ignorant. But defending the game without any reason and saying "it does not require any optimization, it's just fine" is another sign of ignorance.

[Xurn]

You seem to misunderstand the term optimize. As in take something that works and make it work better. Optimization is not fixing anything it is improving its performance. Like how a lot of Honda Civic owners "Optimize" their cars lol.