C02 "greenhouse" emissions drop to lowest levels in 20 years due to market forces

[Dacien]

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...0269ea5a3ca224
http://www.northcentralpa.com/feedit...issions-down-0
http://content.usatoday.com/communit...-20-year-low/1
http://blog.pe.com/environment/2012/...missions-drop/

Government officials say the biggest reason is that cheap and plentiful natural gas has led many power plant operators to switch from dirtier-burning coal.

Many of the world’s leading climate scientists didn’t see the drop coming, in large part because it happened as a result of market forces rather than direct government action against carbon dioxide, a greenhouse gas that traps heat in the atmosphere.

These are also the same climate scientists that environmentally-minded people point to and call Checkmate. That the vast majority of these scientists advocate anthropogenic climate change. Wonder what new things they'll be surprised by next?

I thought this was very interesting and I thought I would share.

[Kalyyn]

I kept saying this, but nobody would listen. The way to beat global warming is not to appease it by cutting back and limiting ourselves, but attacking and destroying it with better and more efficient technology.

You say live at peace with the environment, I say dominate and master it.

[Hothgor]

http://blog.pe.com/environment/2012/...missions-drop/



These are also the same climate scientists that environmentally-minded people point to and call Checkmate. That the vast majority of these scientists advocate anthropomorphic climate change. Wonder what new things they'll be surprised by next?

I thought this was very interesting and I thought I would share.

Even if 100% of C02 emissions were halted today, the world would still experience 2 degree warming by century's end. The 'forecast' the environmentalist were using were best case/worst case/moderate case scenarios. For the last few decades, we have been trending along the worst case scenario. Lower C02 emissions doesn't mean an end to global warming: only a reduction in the severity we will experience over the next century.

Are you surprised to hear this?

[Rennadrel]

Now if we can just get all those tanks that people drive off the roads in place of something that doesn't get less then 12 highway miles to the gallon, force people in overcrowded countries to stop buying cars and polluting our planet even more, things might be fine. Honestly, electric cars are going to be the way to go. With the speed at which solar and battery technologies are evolving, there won't be gas powered cars in 40 years.

[Kalyyn]

Now if we can just get all those tanks that people drive off the roads in place of something that doesn't get less then 12 highway miles to the gallon, force people in overcrowded countries to stop buying cars and polluting our planet even more, things might be fine. Honestly, electric cars are going to be the way to go. With the speed at which solar and battery technologies are evolving, there won't be gas powered cars in 40 years.

I need my SUV. If you can give me an electric alternative that performs exactly as well or better in power (and doesn't cost more than my house), then I'll negotiate.

Also, my Suburban gets about 18mpg. Newer models do even better.

Side-note: If your little paper-thin Prius has a head-on collision with my Suburban, I won't even notice you. That's safety.

[Hothgor]

I need my SUV. If you can give me an electric alternative that performs exactly as well or better in power (and doesn't cost more than my house), then I'll negotiate.

Also, my Suburban gets about 18mpg. Newer models do even better.

Side-note: If your little paper-thin Prius has a head-on collision with my Suburban, I won't even notice you. That's safety.

Please explain why your SUV is so 'needed'.

[Nathreim]

Now if we can just get all those tanks that people drive off the roads in place of something that doesn't get less then 12 highway miles to the gallon, force people in overcrowded countries to stop buying cars and polluting our planet even more, things might be fine. Honestly, electric cars are going to be the way to go. With the speed at which solar and battery technologies are evolving, there won't be gas powered cars in 40 years.

Those tanks are far cleaner in the long run then hybrid cars. The plastics they make these things out of are horrible for the environment so are the batteries they use which have to be replaced every 2-4 years. Want to save the world buy a used car.

[eriseis]

http://blog.pe.com/environment/2012/...missions-drop/



These are also the same climate scientists that environmentally-minded people point to and call Checkmate. That the vast majority of these scientists advocate anthropomorphic climate change. Wonder what new things they'll be surprised by next?

I thought this was very interesting and I thought I would share.

You know you make no sense, right? First of all, the article obviously wants to undermine the work of climate scientists. Secondly...what does your comment after your quote have to do with anything? You seem to claim that they are wrong about human-caused climate change (is anthropomorphic the right word? doesn't that mean "looks like a human"?) when market forces are humanly triggered anyway.

You're putting anti-science talk with pro-business rhetoric and a spice of bias in a blender and trying to serve it like the nectar of the gods.

You seem to advocate that market forces will solve the problem when it wasn't that business decided to be nice to the environment, they found something cheaper and coincidentally a by-product was less CO2 emissions.

[Kalyyn]

Please explain why your SUV is so 'needed'.

Because I haul a lot of heavy cargo that would rip your little hybrid in half? How else am I supposed to pull trailers? Or carry hardware, for that matter?

[Bakis]

Because I haul a lot of heavy cargo that would rip your little hybrid in half? How else am I supposed to pull trailers? Or carry hardware, for that matter?

Hmm you need a car 1,5 times as heavy as say a regular station wagon to pull a trailer? Hybrid I dunno but lets compare a petrol/diesel regular car with a SUV, I'm pretty sure they are both able to pull a trailer.

[therayeffect]

Oh man I saw this thread and rolled my eyes at another "troll-bait" thread and then saw a mod posted it... LOL. At least you'll be able to keep it to where we can have decent discussion.

Personally I don't really feel any different about this. Global warming is real and we need to change our ways, if not for the environment, to at least stop funding everyone that hates us with our Oil addiction. And last I knew, didn't Obama and them pass a bunch of environmental legislation limited emissions and stuff that goes into effect soon if it's not already in effect? Basically all this seems to confirm is that companies will shift their policies for profit. Nothing to see here.

Because I haul a lot of heavy cargo that would rip your little hybrid in half? How else am I supposed to pull trailers? Or carry hardware, for that matter?

This is the one thing that annoys me to no end. We SHOULD have badass cars and trucks that are very fuel efficient and yet don't sacrifice performance. It won't happen anytime soon though because oil companies have lined the pockets of politicians and car markers and they own a whole lot of patents that heavily restrict research into that area. Many Americans would love to switch if there was no performance loss because it would be cheaper in the long run and they wouldn't have to give a damn about fuel prices. I remember a buddy of mine had his car die and while it was in the shop his insurance company got him a 1 year old Hybrid to ride around in. That car was one of the nicest cars I've had the pleasure of riding in so the technology is there, it's just that every crooked politician makes too much from oil companies to want to move forward with technology.

[Kaleredar]

You know you make no sense, right? First of all, the article obviously wants to undermine the work of climate scientists. Secondly...what does your comment after your quote have to do with anything? You seem to claim that they are wrong about human-caused climate change (is anthropomorphic the right word? doesn't that mean "looks like a human"?) when market forces are humanly triggered anyway.

The word is "anthropogenic," meaning "comes from humans."

You seem to advocate that market forces will solve the problem when it wasn't that business decided to be nice to the environment, they found something cheaper and coincidentally a by-product was less CO2 emissions.

That's the only thing that will cut through the Political BS and help the environment, at least in the short run... when Green alternatives become more economically sound than their polluting alternatives. Whether that comes to fruition because peak oil is reached and everyone has to desperately clutch at straws and downgrade our quality of life because we didn't plan far enough ahead, or because enough attention was given to adequately develop or retune available technologies, has yet to be seen.

[Creotor]

Side-note: If your little paper-thin Prius has a head-on collision with my Suburban, I won't even notice you. That's safety.

I'm really a complete nub when it comes to cars, but I'm still pretty sure it's not the sheer weight/size that matters, but the type of construction, materials used. Most importantly - the structure frame, or w/e you call it. That's common sense. Or at least seems that way to me.

That's kinda like arguing that a bowl of soup will destroy a pebble. Due to its size. Not that I'm saying that yours is complete shit - it seems to have a high safety grade, but you were basing your argument on the sheer size and nothing else.

[Kalyyn]

Hmm you need a car 1,5 times as heavy as say a regular station wagon to pull a trailer? Hybrid I dunno but lets compare a petrol/diesel regular car with a SUV, I'm pretty sure they are both able to pull a trailer.

I'm skeptical of the idea that a station wagon has the same strength that my SUV does. And I'm pretty sure they can't drive offroad for shit. You'd understand if you lived in a rural area.

This is the one thing that annoys me to no end. We SHOULD have badass cars and trucks that are very fuel efficient and yet don't sacrifice performance. It won't happen anytime soon though because oil companies have lined the pockets of politicians and car markers and they own a whole lot of patents that heavily restrict research into that area. Many Americans would love to switch if there was no performance loss because it would be cheaper in the long run and they wouldn't have to give a damn about fuel prices. I remember a buddy of mine had his car die and while it was in the shop his insurance company got him a 1 year old Hybrid to ride around in. That car was one of the nicest cars I've had the pleasure of riding in so the technology is there, it's just that every crooked politician makes too much from oil companies to want to move forward with technology.

Exactly! I'll gladly switch when I can trade my truck in for an equivalent electric version, but until then hell no. And it has to be durable as hell. I've been in 3 different collisions and never had to pay a cent in repairs. Why? Because good ol' GMC steel is completely indestructible.

[Rukentuts]

The world is still putting out CO2 at a rate per year that takes the Earth 1.5 years to get rid of. The problem is still compounding...albeit slower. Also, natural gas isn't cheaper than coal in itself. All the old plants just require too expensive of upgrades to meet the latest regulations (which I agree with).

[Kalyyn]

I'm really a complete nub when it comes to cars, but I'm still pretty sure it's not the sheer weight/size that matters, but the type of construction, materials used. Most importantly - the structure frame, or w/e you call it. That's common sense. Or at least seems that way to me.

That's kinda like arguing that a bowl of soup will destroy a pebble. Due to its size. Not that I'm saying that yours is complete shit - it seems to have a high safety grade, but you were basing your argument on the sheer size and nothing else.

More than just size, SUVs (mine at least) do actually have superior composition. While hybrids and newer cars in general tend to sacrifice durability for reduced weight and drag, my truck is pretty much a solid block of steel. Hell, what are most bumpers made of these days? Reinforced plastic? Mine is a solid block of metal. I basically have a battering ram mounted on the front of my vehicle.

[Kaleredar]

I'm skeptical of the idea that a station wagon has the same strength that my SUV does. And I'm pretty sure they can't drive offroad for shit. You'd understand if you lived in a rural area.

I've no problem with people who use SUVs and Trucks for their intended purposes-- like hauling equipment around. I'm going to assume that you don't commute to work on the freeway every day and sit in traffic for hours in your vehicle. The people that do that (i.e, that don't need it, because they think the car is "safer") are the ones that bug me.

[eriseis]

Yeah tell that to the next earthquake or Tornado demolishing your town/city/etc. And them landslides, they be nasty.
And what about floods, Thailand and Japan would like to have a word with you since you seem to know a lot about mastering Mother Nature.
Be sure to stop by Haiti on your way there. After you visited the places destroyed by Katrina ofcourse.

Oh great Kalyyn, guide us!

Who the fuck knows what you typed, I was staring at your signature. :P

[giovannileanza]

Thanks, i like it too
Actually wanted to delete that post since i feel i've said too much again but was too late

[Deleted]

More than just size, SUVs (mine at least) do actually have superior composition. While hybrids and newer cars in general tend to sacrifice durability for reduced weight and drag, my truck is pretty much a solid block of steel. Hell, what are most bumpers made of these days? Reinforced plastic? Mine is a solid block of metal. I basically have a battering ram mounted on the front of my vehicle.

Awesome, when you hit a child you'll be sure to kill them! I mean you've already been in three accidents, it's bound to happen sooner or later. (Yes yes, I'm sure none of them was your fault, you don't need to bore me with the stories.)