Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[Nayaga]

For the third time, you have willingly ignored the discussion on my opinion on Blizzard's stance on delaying flying as to whether they've made a final discussion or not, just because it wasn't your "Flying: Yes or No" circlejerk.

As for how well this discussion as a whole actually fares, unless you can objectively tell me that anything we're discussing makes a difference other than ego stroking then there really isn't much happening other than the same people spewing the same ideals with different wording. That's not a discussion.

This discussion is what we make of it. Many of us have tried to have a useful discussion, if you don't like this discussion why are you posting in it?

This forum on MMO is for the discussion of World of Warcraft, no matter if it makes a difference or not.

[Deleted]

This discussion is what we make of it. Many of us have tried to have a useful discussion, if you don't like this discussion why are you posting in it?

This forum on MMO is for the discussion of World of Warcraft, no matter if it makes a difference or not.

People are very quick to ignore the fact that as soon as I start discussing Blizzard's ultimatum on whether flying will return or not, as opposed to reasons for liking or disliking flying, it suddenly gets called out as derailing the thread which hmm let me see is called "Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac". There's a difference between not liking the discussion and not liking the attitude of the people discussing it.

So unless you mean "if you don't like where people have derailed the discussion towards" then I'm perfectly entitled to discuss what I already had discussed.

[Mafic]

This thread has helped many that did not know this was a possibility. All we can do now is wait till reality hits the rest of the player base (99%) of what Blizz has done.

As I said on page 1 (and I will pat myself on the back when it happens) expect a massive backlash.

[Nayaga]

People are very quick to ignore the fact that as soon as I start discussing Blizzard's ultimatum on whether flying will return or not, as opposed to reasons for liking or disliking flying, it suddenly gets called out as derailing the thread which hmm let me see is called "Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac". There's a difference between not liking the discussion and not liking the attitude of the people discussing it.

So unless you mean "if you don't like where people have derailed the discussion towards" then I'm perfectly entitled to discuss what I already had discussed.

You specifically said

unless you can objectively tell me that anything we're discussing makes a difference other than ego stroking then there really isn't much happening other than the same people spewing the same ideals with different wording. That's not a discussion.

We can have a discussion whether you think it will make any difference or not. You don't dictate what we are allowed to discuss and what the requirements of a discussion are.

[Deleted]

You specifically said
We can have a discussion whether you think it will make any difference or not. You don't dictate what we are allowed to discuss and what the requirements of a discussion are.

By all means discuss it, I'm not your owner am I? As for my opinion on whether over 1000 pages of the same arguments over and over is actually leading us anywhere meaningful and not a really sad example of stubborn animosity well that just speaks for itself. As long as you're willing to accept that the topic is really frivolous and as soon as Blizzard makes it clear what their plans are you'll hear one side or another pretend that what they chirped on for over a 1000 pages actually mattered.

It still isn't a proper discussion though, it's beating a dead horse of a topic that's most likely already been decided internally a long while back.

[Nayaga]

By all means discuss it, I'm not your owner am I? As for my opinion on whether over 1000 pages of the same arguments over and over is actually leading us anywhere meaningful and not a really sad example of stubborn animosity well that just speaks for itself. As long as you're willing to accept that the topic is really frivolous and as soon as Blizzard makes it clear what their plans are you'll hear one side or another pretend that what they chirped on for over a 1000 pages actually mattered.

It still isn't a proper discussion though, it's beating a dead horse of a topic that's most likely already been decided internally a long while back.

If it's a dead topic to you, that's fine, you don't have to post in it. Other people are interested in discussing it, please stop disrupting this thread.

[Deleted]

If it's a dead topic to you, that's fine, you don't have to post in it. Other people are interested in discussing it, please stop disrupting this thread.

The thread was already disrupted ages ago when people felt it was necessary to change the discussion from Blizzard delaying flight to creating this stupid "pro-flight" and "anti-flight" circlejerk of the same small group of people who pretend that what they're saying matters.

If you're happy still pretending then I won't stop you.

[pallyopness]

By all means discuss it, I'm not your owner am I? As for my opinion on whether over 1000 pages of the same arguments over and over is actually leading us anywhere meaningful and not a really sad example of stubborn animosity well that just speaks for itself. As long as you're willing to accept that the topic is really frivolous and as soon as Blizzard makes it clear what their plans are you'll hear one side or another pretend that what they chirped on for over a 1000 pages actually mattered.

It still isn't a proper discussion though, it's beating a dead horse of a topic that's most likely already been decided internally a long while back.

I do agree that its most likely been decided. Flight will come back in 6.1 and not a moment sooner. Regardless of how many people complain or ask for it to be removed entirely.

[Barkloud]

This thread has helped many that did not know this was a possibility. All we can do now is wait till reality hits the rest of the player base (99%) of what Blizz has done.

As I said on page 1 (and I will pat myself on the back when it happens) expect a massive backlash.

The backlash is going to be immense. This is really an unprecedented move. Can you think of any video game ever that removed its main source of transportation after 7 years.

For the last 70% of this products lifetime, we have pretty much solely used flight as out main transportation.

Even the Anti flyers still fly. They can easily run but choose not too until they are forced too.

- - - Updated - - -

I do agree that its most likely been decided. Flight will come back in 6.1 and not a moment sooner. Regardless of how many people complain or ask for it to be removed entirely.

I think flight coming back in 6.1 is fair.

[khalltusk]

I agree, we will know soon enough. It is going to be interesting when the uninformed masses realize the pace of gameplay has been significantly slowed down.

That is a bold move after not changing for 7 years straight. Wow never changes. It is the same thing year after year expansion after expansion. This is a huge change out of no where.

Feel bad for people buying mounts to fly in the new expansion right now.

For people buying mounts they can still use them in WoD simply cant fly with them which will still be a downer for some people no doubt. I am OK with no flight but will be happy if/when flight comes back. I think blizzards choice to do it is a bit silly as it can back fire but sometimes you have to change it up a bit and I would rather they take risks and fail than get stale.

[rda]

I do agree that its most likely been decided. Flight will come back in 6.1 and not a moment sooner. Regardless of how many people complain or ask for it to be removed entirely.

I wish I shared your point of view. I think it hasn't been decided. Reason: they didn't decide on quite a lot of other things, they seem just super-inept this expansion for some reason, unable to act, unable to produce, their default action when encountering something that has to be acted upon seems to be "is it absolutely vital for this particular expansion? no? then cut it, so we don't have to deal with it", etc. The worst thing that I fear is that they might continue this not deciding on flying into after 6.1. We'll see, I guess.

[Barkloud]

For people buying mounts they can still use them in WoD simply cant fly with them which will still be a downer for some people no doubt. I am OK with no flight but will be happy if/when flight comes back. I think blizzards choice to do it is a bit silly as it can back fire but sometimes you have to change it up a bit and I would rather they take risks and fail than get stale.

Removing features that already exist rarely helps keeping things from getting stale. They need to create content. This games lack of content is what hurts them the most. Their content is fun, they just do not create as much as they used to.

[khalltusk]

Removing features that already exist rarely helps keeping things from getting stale. They need to create content. This games lack of content is what hurts them the most. Their content is fun, they just do not create as much as they used to.

Content complexity has gone up though. You look at any game from 1990-2005 the maps and content was quite basic compared to what you see in games today. The amount of clutter/detail in new game worlds and maps is huge. Reason we had more dungeons in TBC was due to the amount of re-used art assets. Wrath had the same thing too. BUT I would rather we re-use some of the assets to beef up the amount of dungeons. The amount of raid bosses has remained pretty high through out the game (Wraths was inflated due to a re-used raid). Cata being the exception and having very few bosses. Firelands and DS having 6/7 each or something?

Even removing flying while IMO a mistake is at least them trying something out to see if they can change the way players interact with the world. The Garrisons and the way they work seems intriguing and to me is great so im not too fussed about no flight due to what they are bringing in.

[Nayaga]

The thread was already disrupted ages ago when people felt it was necessary to change the discussion from Blizzard delaying flight to creating this stupid "pro-flight" and "anti-flight" circlejerk of the same small group of people who pretend that what they're saying matters.

If you're happy still pretending then I won't stop you.

The discussion is about the "Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.". That is the title of the thread, not just a discussion whether flight will be "delayed". It's about the possibility that there is no flight ever the entire expac.

Blizzard has said many times customers feedback is a part of what would determine if flight is introduced or not. According to Blizzard, it's not a done deal, hence the discussion and feedback.

Tom Chilton
"Um, we'll see. So, you know, we've talked about it as a possibility for Patch 6.1, that you would earn the ability to fly. A lot of it would depend upon how players feel about it. Right? It's not, it's, you know, it's a question that the community as a whole needs to arrive at an answer to. Uh, we're still kind of seeing how this experiment of not allowing players to fly for one entire patch goes. Um, there are players that, obviously, that hate it and think that it's the worst decision we've ever made. Um, fortunately it doesn't look like it's a significant majority of players. Um, it looks like a lot of players are really interested in seeing, kind of re-exploring what it looks like to, uh, to play on the ground. 'Cuz honestly there's a lot more game depth on the ground than there is in the air. Um, the air is nice for getting vistas and taking screenshots and looking around and going 'Oooo!' But there are other ways we can achieve that, too, without necessarily having free-form flight. So, we'll see. Um, if players overwhelmingly want it by Patch 6.1, then we'll probably do it."

Alex Afrasiabi Tweets:
“Plans is no flying at ship and see how it plays out.”
“We want players to give it a chance” (no flying)
“We could have a world with no flying and people love it”

Post by Zarhym:
"In short, we've mapped out the road ahead for Warlords and know where we're going, but some of the pit stops we make along the way will be determined by popular community feedback once everyone is on the journey with us. "

[Deleted]

The discussion is about the "Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.". That is the title of the thread, not just a discussion whether flight will be "delayed". It's about the possibility that there is no flight ever the entire expac.

Blizzard has said many times customers feedback is a part of what would determine if flight is introduced or not. According to Blizzard, it's not a done deal, hence the discussion and feedback.

Tom Chilton
"Um, we'll see. So, you know, we've talked about it as a possibility for Patch 6.1, that you would earn the ability to fly. A lot of it would depend upon how players feel about it. Right? It's not, it's, you know, it's a question that the community as a whole needs to arrive at an answer to. Uh, we're still kind of seeing how this experiment of not allowing players to fly for one entire patch goes. Um, there are players that, obviously, that hate it and think that it's the worst decision we've ever made. Um, fortunately it doesn't look like it's a significant majority of players. Um, it looks like a lot of players are really interested in seeing, kind of re-exploring what it looks like to, uh, to play on the ground. 'Cuz honestly there's a lot more game depth on the ground than there is in the air. Um, the air is nice for getting vistas and taking screenshots and looking around and going 'Oooo!' But there are other ways we can achieve that, too, without necessarily having free-form flight. So, we'll see. Um, if players overwhelmingly want it by Patch 6.1, then we'll probably do it."

Alex AfrasiabiTweets:
“Plans is no flying at ship and see how it plays out.”
“We want players to give it a chance” (no flying)
“We could have a world with no flying and people love it”

And my argument is that Blizzard have already made an internal decision in the long run concerning their stance on flying. They're making it clear that so far the results are polarised, and choosing either side because of the nature of it being polarised can help fit their already made decision.

[pallyopness]

The discussion is about the "Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.". That is the title of the thread, not just a discussion whether flight will be "delayed". It's about the possibility that there is no flight ever the entire expac.

Blizzard has said many times customers feedback is a part of what would determine if flight is introduced or not. According to Blizzard, it's not a done deal, hence the discussion and feedback.

Tom Chilton
"Um, we'll see. So, you know, we've talked about it as a possibility for Patch 6.1, that you would earn the ability to fly. A lot of it would depend upon how players feel about it. Right? It's not, it's, you know, it's a question that the community as a whole needs to arrive at an answer to. Uh, we're still kind of seeing how this experiment of not allowing players to fly for one entire patch goes. Um, there are players that, obviously, that hate it and think that it's the worst decision we've ever made. Um, fortunately it doesn't look like it's a significant majority of players. Um, it looks like a lot of players are really interested in seeing, kind of re-exploring what it looks like to, uh, to play on the ground. 'Cuz honestly there's a lot more game depth on the ground than there is in the air. Um, the air is nice for getting vistas and taking screenshots and looking around and going 'Oooo!' But there are other ways we can achieve that, too, without necessarily having free-form flight. So, we'll see. Um, if players overwhelmingly want it by Patch 6.1, then we'll probably do it."

Alex Afrasiabi Tweets:
“Plans is no flying at ship and see how it plays out.”
“We want players to give it a chance” (no flying)
“We could have a world with no flying and people love it”

If you have not tried it yet or given it a chance, then how is this discussion helpful. You just said it yourself. They want feedback AFTER you have tried it. A prejudged notion does nothing to help solve the matter. They want you to try it on LIVE. So I am sorry to say that you just proved Lewor somewhat correct whether you meant to or not.

[gamingmuscle]

The thread was already disrupted ages ago when people felt it was necessary to change the discussion from Blizzard delaying flight to creating this stupid "pro-flight" and "anti-flight" circlejerk of the same small group of people who pretend that what they're saying matters.

If you're happy still pretending then I won't stop you.

The possibility of no flight will include discussions that are pro or anti flight. How on earth would you discuss the merit of "possible no flight for entire expansion" without talking about the perceived slights or merits of flight itself?

[rda]

And my argument is that Blizzard have already made an internal decision in the long run concerning their stance on flying. They're making it clear that so far the results are polarised, and choosing either side because of the nature of it being polarised can help fit their already made decision.

Why do you think that Blizzard have already made an internal decision in the long run concerning their stance on flying?

[Deleted]

The possibility of no flight will include discussions that are pro or anti flight. How on earth would you discuss the merit of "possible no flight for entire expansion" without talking about the perceived slights or merits of flight itself?

I'm not against that. What I am against was someone attempting to exclude me from talking about Blizzard's stance on no flight only to ask a stupidly loaded question in return.

And now tell me what you like or dislike about flying.

This thread isn't about the like or dislike of flying. The thread title is clearly about the discussion of flying being removed for an undisclosed amount of time. Stop derailing the thread.

It infact is, as this is a discussion board. And discussions always are about opinions.

But hey, if you chose to troll on this thread, i am not in the position to stop you.

You are still welcome to join the topic.

- - - Updated - - -

Why do you think that Blizzard have already made an internal decision in the long run concerning their stance on flying?

Personally for me I think their stance on no flying revolves around their design philosophy for zones. As they have stated that they're already working on the next expansion I feel that also implies they're already working on how that design philosophy is reflected on future zones.

In a nutshell I feel that their design choices in future content, which is already happening, has also influenced their choice on flying.

[pallyopness]

Why do you think that Blizzard have already made an internal decision in the long run concerning their stance on flying?

I know you didn't ask me, but, I feel that they already have had backlash about not flying enough to know they will put it in at 6.1. I think they are hoping that you try it and like it but I do believe they know that for better or worse they will put it in to appease the ones so against it to maintain the subscriptions. As many of you have argued, I don't see them permanently removing flying. Does not seem feasible in the end picture of WoW for them to do so.