Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[Nayaga]

Getting a bit vitriolic in the face of repeating an incorrect mantra.

Of course a delay doesn't mean never, but we've not been told it'll never return. Unless we're told it'll never return and given the recent information we've been told then arguing that it's delayed is a reasonable argument. Dunno how many times I have to drill this into you.

I am not incorrect, you are.

We have been told it might not ever be returned. As a matter of fact, Tom Chilton says we need an overwhelming amount of players to want it for it to be added to WoD. Never is overwhelming likely.

[Deleted]

I am not incorrect, you are.

We have been told it might not ever be returned. As a matter of fact, Tom Chilton says we need an overwhelming amount of players to want it for it to be added to WoD. Never is overwhelming likely.

He also said in the same video that they've discussed it returning in 6.1 what's your point. I can easily cherrypick that and say that a 6.1 return will happen, just as you're cherrypicking that it'll require an overwhelming amount of players. How about watching his statement as a whole and determing that there is no definate leaning towards an answer like a rational person would?

[CheeseSandwich]

He also said in the same video that they've discussed it returning in 6.1 what's your point. I can easily cherrypick that and say that a 6.1 return will happen, just as you're cherrypicking that it'll require an overwhelming amount of players. How about watching his statement as a whole and determing that there is no definate leaning towards an answer like a rational person would?

Blizz doesn't want flying to return. The over riding theme of their comments is no flight going forward, but possibly they might return it if some Blizz determined threshold is crossed. We don't know what that threshold is, or it's parameters, but if it is crossed, then they might bring flight back. Fortunately for them, they are of the mindset they won't have to revert this change.

[Teetster]

...Compared to MOP's flying to different points that took most people a good 2 hours to complete?

I could do them in 45 minutes at best, and I know I'm far faster than most. Majority of people were complaining these dailies took 2hours+.

Thankyou for proving that blizzard is designing content with no flying in mind, laying that argument to rest.

Right because the only use case for flight is doing dailies, right? You keep taking things that are not relevant at all and somehow thinking they are evidence of your opinion being true.

[Nayaga]

He also said in the same video that they've discussed it returning in 6.1 what's your point. I can easily cherrypick that and say that a 6.1 return will happen, just as you're cherrypicking that it'll require an overwhelming amount of players. How about watching his statement as a whole and determing that there is no definate leaning towards an answer like a rational person would?

I think people can have a different opinion on what he said:

Tom Chilton interview transcript:
"Um, we'll see. So, you know, we've talked about it as a possibility for Patch 6.1, that you would earn the ability to fly. A lot of it would depend upon how players feel about it. Right? It's not, it's, you know, it's a question that the community as a whole needs to arrive at an answer to. Uh, we're still kind of seeing how this experiment of not allowing players to fly for one entire patch goes. Um, there are players that, obviously, that hate it and think that it's the worst decision we've ever made. Um, fortunately it doesn't look like it's a significant majority of players. Um, it looks like a lot of players are really interested in seeing, kind of re-exploring what it looks like to, uh, to play on the ground. 'Cuz honestly there's a lot more game depth on the ground than there is in the air. Um, the air is nice for getting vistas and taking screenshots and looking around and going 'Oooo!' But there are other ways we can achieve that, too, without necessarily having free-form flight. So, we'll see. Um, if players overwhelmingly want it by Patch 6.1, then we'll probably do it. "

He says the return of flight "would depend upon how players feel about it". That's what we are discussing in this thread. No reason to tell us to go to a different thread.

According to Blizzard "how we feel about it" (like or dislike) will determine if there is the "possibly no flying throughout entire xpac".

[Deleted]

I think people can have a different opinion on what he said:

Tom Chilton interview transcript:
"Um, we'll see. So, you know, we've talked about it as a possibility for Patch 6.1, that you would earn the ability to fly. A lot of it would depend upon how players feel about it. Right? It's not, it's, you know, it's a question that the community as a whole needs to arrive at an answer to. Uh, we're still kind of seeing how this experiment of not allowing players to fly for one entire patch goes. Um, there are players that, obviously, that hate it and think that it's the worst decision we've ever made. Um, fortunately it doesn't look like it's a significant majority of players. Um, it looks like a lot of players are really interested in seeing, kind of re-exploring what it looks like to, uh, to play on the ground. 'Cuz honestly there's a lot more game depth on the ground than there is in the air. Um, the air is nice for getting vistas and taking screenshots and looking around and going 'Oooo!' But there are other ways we can achieve that, too, without necessarily having free-form flight. So, we'll see. Um, if players overwhelmingly want it by Patch 6.1, then we'll probably do it. "

Cool you have an opinion about it but your opinion, which points towards an subjective absolute, does not suddenly supercede mine, which retains objective ambiguity.

He says the return of flight "would depend upon how players feel about it". That's what we are discussing in this thread. No reason to tell us to go to a different thread.

When did I tell you to go to another thread to talk about the return of flight? I said go to the other thread to talk about whether you like flying or not. Please keep up.

Seeing as you were so keen to play the quoting game earlier I'll go ahead and do it for you:

So you're still willingly ignoring to choose the fact that you wanted to stop me discussing Blizzard's stance on flight because it didn't fit your binary "yes or no to flying" circlejerk. You do realise that you calling me a troll for discussing that is also akin to flaming? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black jesus christ.

In fact, there is an entirely separate thread on the same page as this one dedicated to discussing yes or no to flying in Draenor. Why aren't you discussing that there? Again, I ask you to stop derailing the thread.

[Teetster]

I am coming to the conclusion that WoD is the start of WoW2. The huge revamp and changes in playstyle and paystyle, the direct removal and discontinuation of popular MoP features and the ability to buypass the old WoW.

I am increasingly becoming more and more resigned to the fact that we are in a new phase of WoW, and no amount of player feedback, sub losses or general unrest will change this issue.

I do think it is a huge detractor from the game going forward though. The ability to use flying as an extra level of content once a player reaches max level (or any other barrier) has been done, successfully, in the past. My main gripe with this change is the lack of any sort of initiative, imagination or resolve to do something with it now.

I would call WoD the NGE of WoW. For those who don't know the story:

Star Wars Galaxies (SWG) was well received by the players and was growing. Then the developers just dropped the New Game Enhancements (NGE) which redically changed the game, removed features, simplified things and changed a lot of features. The playerbase flipped their shit because the game was radically changed overnight, largely without player feedback, or even considering player needs at all. The game lost 3/4 of its player base and died in obscurity.

More details are easily finable online:

http://massively.joystiq.com/2008/06...e-re-examined/

Anyways, what Blizzard is doing with WoW in WoD is very similar. They are wildly changing the game, removing features, and changing things for changes sake. To their credit, it was not all behind closed doors like with SWG - but to make it worse IMO is that they are doing it in the open - getting a TON of negative feedback on a lot of the changes and they just don't care. No flying is just one of those wildly negative feedback areas.

They don't care. They just think that people will accept it because "they know better". They don't. They have gotten so cocky that they think they can ignore feedback from subscribers. That attitude will change or the company shareholders will flip their shit when they see WoW lose another couple million subs.

Edit:

Here's yet another thread on the beta forums where people are asking for flight back:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/13839304328

and another:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/14608541423

Shocking that Blizzard just continues to ignore the issue. Its not like it is going away.

Edit (2):

More scanning the beta forums. People are complaining about so many things. The loot system, the squish, the lore, class nerfs, major healing issues.

There is very little positivity. I wonder if people at Blizzard are realizing what is going to happen yet. I've watched every beta process of WoW since forever, and there was always so much more excitement than what is happening this time. During the Wrath beta people were flipping out with excitement.

[Mask]

Gimping me to benefit you is bad. I am more than willing to let you play the game according to your own preferences and choices, using or not using and all of the features in the game at your own discretion.

So tell me not to fly while you do is exactly GIMPING ME WHILE BENEFITING YOU. What I am asking for is both of us on even ground. Without flying.

Besides, in many ways a loot treadmill game like WoW is a 'keeping up with the Jones' experience. Telling one person they can just do something inefficiently and slowly if they want to while you fly around with all the power that provides isn't going to work. If it were a single player game like Skyrim, sure that's fine. Not in a multiplayer game.

[CheeseSandwich]

*snip* CS EDIT *AGREE WITH SNIP BUT*
They don't care. They just think that people will accept it because "they know better". They don't. They have gotten so cocky that they think they can ignore feedback from subscribers. That attitude will change or the company shareholders will flip their shit when they see WoW lose another couple million subs.

I am not sure the loss of subs from WoW will be that big of an issue. Honestly, I think the way they are positioning themselves with Hearthstone and HotS, they are looking forward to the days where they can develoup less resource intense games for more revenue. IMO, they are resigned to knowing WoW will fall back to a steady 3 mill or so subs, and are making streamline versions of games with iconic characters that offer faster rewards for cash incentives with less overheads.

The subjective trimming down of WoW moving into WoD looks to me to be pushing people into those other games along side of WoW, ala garrison check, Done! Hearthstone daily, Done! HotS matchmaking daily, Done! A spreading of the cream across the blizzard cake, as opposed to a healthy dollop of cream on our individual slice.

[Disperse725]

Why would they do no flying??

[Drytoast]

So tell me not to fly while you do is exactly GIMPING ME WHILE BENEFITING YOU. What I am asking for is both of us on even ground. Without flying.

Besides, in many ways a loot treadmill game like WoW is a 'keeping up with the Jones' experience. Telling one person they can just do something inefficiently and slowly if they want to while you fly around with all the power that provides isn't going to work. If it were a single player game like Skyrim, sure that's fine. Not in a multiplayer game.

It's not gimping you in any way that should make you not want to favor your ground mount if you wish too. We've been over this and it's apparent that everything you want to accomplish in game can be done using a ground mount. You could be a heroic raider and still keep up with the content and your guild.

You are making things up.

[Barkloud]

Why would they do no flying??

To stretch out product lifecycle and make it last longer.

MOP and CATA both were really small expansions compared to the others and Vanilla.

MoP tried to gate everyone with dailies. This time they are gating people with travel.

To date, I have not seen anything that leads me to believe the type of content we will see in WoD will be any different than what we have seen in previous expansions.

The only difference is we cannot fly, thats it.

[Nayaga]

When did I tell you to go to another thread to talk about the return of flight? I said go to the other thread to talk about whether you like flying or not. Please keep up.

This thread isn't about the like or dislike of flying. The thread title is clearly about the discussion of flying being removed for an undisclosed amount of time. .

Which is wrong, this thread includes discussions about like or dislike of flying.

Then you tell us to go to another thread.

So you're still willingly ignoring to choose the fact that you wanted to stop me discussing Blizzard's stance on flight because it didn't fit your binary "yes or no to flying" circlejerk. You do realise that you calling me a troll for discussing that is also akin to flaming? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black jesus christ.

In fact, there is an entirely separate thread on the same page as this one dedicated to discussing yes or no to flying in Draenor. Why aren't you discussing that there? Again, I ask you to stop derailing the thread.

Tom Chilton says the return of flight "would depend upon how players feel about it". That's what we are discussing in this thread. No reason to tell us to go to a different thread.

According to Blizzard "how we feel about it" (like or dislike) will determine if there is the "possibly no flying throughout entire xpac".

[Aberzombie]

He also said in the same video that they've discussed it returning in 6.1 what's your point. I can easily cherrypick that and say that a 6.1 return will happen, just as you're cherrypicking that it'll require an overwhelming amount of players. How about watching his statement as a whole and determing that there is no definate leaning towards an answer like a rational person would?

Saying they've 'discussed' it does not mean (or even remotely imply) that their discussion was about returning it. That 'discussion' could just as easily have been about how and why to keep it out. You seem determined to apply your own "bias" to Blizz statements, yet tell others of us we should not do that; that it is bad. I smell hypocricy.

As for 'cherrypicking'...

...you're cherrypicking that it'll require an overwhelming amount of players.

You either have not seen Chilton's video or are completely ingoring/mangling it because that is nearly verbatim what he said. Your credibility falls with every sentence you write.

[Deleted]

Which is wrong, this thread includes discussions about like or dislike of flying.

Then you tell us to go to another thread.

I see none of that in the OP nor do I see that in the thread title. What I do see is a separate thread that discusses the like and dislike of flying with almost 30 pages.

[CheeseSandwich]

I see none of that in the OP nor do I see that in the thread title. What I do see is a separate thread that discusses the like and dislike of flying with almost 30 pages.

The thread title is obvious. For all intents and purposes, this is the thread to discuss flying in WoD and WoW going forward, and all sub branches of that topic. If you don;t believe me, make a separate flying topic and see how long it takes before it is merged into this one.

[Deleted]

Saying they've 'discussed' it does not mean (or even remotely imply) that their discussion was about returning it. That 'discussion' could just as easily have been about how and why to keep it out. You seem determined to apply your own "bias" to Blizz statements, yet tell others of us we should not do that; that it is bad. I smell hypocricy.

As for 'cherrypicking'...
You either have not seen Chilton's video or are completely ingoring/mangling it because that is nearly verbatim what he said. Your credibility falls with every sentence you write.

All I said is that they discussed it, and if I did have bias towards the topic I could easily twist those words around and say that their discussion of it returning in 6.1 will mean that'll happen. I do not hold the belief that him saying he discussed it automatically means it will return. I'm merely saying that if bias is applied to what Chilton said as a whole it is very easy to swing one way or another.

So yes, I have seen Chilton's video and you've failed to actually show where I lack credibility. All I've seen you do is interpret the nature of Chilton's discussion in your own manner of agenda to fit your narrative. And you say I lack credibility? We've both done exactly the same thing!

[Teetster]

I am not sure the loss of subs from WoW will be that big of an issue. Honestly, I think the way they are positioning themselves with Hearthstone and HotS, they are looking forward to the days where they can develoup less resource intense games for more revenue. IMO, they are resigned to knowing WoW will fall back to a steady 3 mill or so subs, and are making streamline versions of games with iconic characters that offer faster rewards for cash incentives with less overheads.

The subjective trimming down of WoW moving into WoD looks to me to be pushing people into those other games along side of WoW, ala garrison check, Done! Hearthstone daily, Done! HotS matchmaking daily, Done! A spreading of the cream across the blizzard cake, as opposed to a healthy dollop of cream on our individual slice.

I think you're exactly right and they have hinted as such in the discussion where they cancelled Titan. They came right out and said that they want to do smaller development efforts.

The thing I don't get is that why accelerate the decline? They could genuinely keep making people happy playing WoW for years if they would only listen to feedback. It is still a cash cow, at least at the sub numbers as they exist now.

[Deleted]

The thread title is obvious. For all intents and purposes, this is the thread to discuss flying in WoD and WoW going forward, and all sub branches of that topic. If you don;t believe me, make a separate flying topic and see how long it takes before it is merged into this one.

It's been A month and a half that this thread has been up for. Something's telling me that it's not getting merged any time soon.

The point is that earlier when I was discussing Blizzard's stance on flying I was told to stop by someone because apparently it was derailing and then immediately asked if I liked flying or not. Some people genuinely believe that this thread's sole purpose is to discuss your like or dislike of flying.

[Aberzombie]

So tell me not to fly while you do is exactly GIMPING ME WHILE BENEFITING YOU. What I am asking for is both of us on even ground. Without flying.

I have never said this.. I've always been of the opinion that that whole line was b.s. from the beginning. Stop putting words in my mouth and then accusing me of shit.

Your credibility just went through the floor.