[Movie/TV/Comic] Marvel Cinematic Universe: A place to talk all things Marvel

[Mahourai]

Since Iron Man, SHIELD has been known to be part of the US government. Heck, the "H" means "Homeland". I don't remember it being called the World Security Council, but even if it was, I don't think a lot of thought was put into it besides the fact that it would seem weird if America handled an alien invasion alone.

It doesn't matter what "thought" was "put into" the name of SHIELD's nefarious masters. They exist. They are nefarious. The good guys are the bad guys.

[Arrowstormen]

It doesn't matter what "thought" was "put into" the name of SHIELD's nefarious masters. They exist. They are nefarious. The good guys are the bad guys.

No they aren't. Alexander Pierce killed them in The Winter Soldier. They're a bunch of nobody government people, whether or not they pretend to be international doesn't really matter.

[alach]

I don't think its evil but I don't think its an American either.
It is (was) run by a World Council. The one dude in winter soldier talks about how the boat was near his waters, India I presume.
Shield has bases all over the world and they can go in and out wherever they please most the time. Their staff is international.
As for having Homeland in the name, well, Ward said it best, Someone really wanted their name to spell Shield.

[Mahourai]

No they aren't. Alexander Pierce killed them in The Winter Soldier. They're a bunch of nobody government people, whether or not they pretend to be international doesn't really matter.

Winter Soldier is an explicit rejection of the idea that you can simply kill enough of the bad people and their bad ideology will go away forever. This is why what you're talking about - Alexander Pierce purging SHIELD's hidden masters - is not presented as a solution or a net good. The bad guy is the one doing it.

I'm not sure what you mean by "pretend to be international", except to cover up your own gaps in knowing who they were.

[Zoaric]

It doesn't matter what "thought" was "put into" the name of SHIELD's nefarious masters. They exist. They are nefarious. The good guys are the bad guys.

I never saw them as nefarious, I just saw them as jumping the gun a lot.

Have an alien invasion you don't know what to do with? Hit it with our strongest
weapon and pray! World seemingly going to shit with new bad guys popping up
every day? Create a bigger weapon!

Also, it seems like not a lot of explaining has gone into the organization of SHIELD
as a whole.

There's also this, meaning SHIELD is American, but world-wide?

EuroM.I.N.D. (European Monitoring Investigation and Enforcement Division) is a European subdivision of S.H.I.E.L.D. that later fell under the control of the S.H.A.P.E. (Supreme Headquarters Allied Powers Europe) council. EuroM.I.N.D.'s director is François Borillon.[32] Its agents include the science reconnaissance group Eurolab and the combat specialist Task Force group, who both then merged into one group known as Euroforce.

[Mahourai]

The nature of the Illuminati, beyond being established in obvious stuff like how they're a vague, unaccountable body that orders the total destruction of NYC for no reason, is when Alexander Pierce poses one of them a hypothetical in Winter Solder about what he would do if his daughter was in a stadium about to be executed and he could solve it with the push of a button.

He replies "not if it was your button!". Which is to say that the Illuminati are perfectly OK with the floating death fortresses, as long as the right people are making the flight plans. They are just as evil as Alexander Pierce. Not coincidentally, both the questioner and the speaker end up dead in the film.

[Arrowstormen]

Winter Soldier is an explicit rejection of the idea that you can simply kill enough of the bad people and their bad ideology will go away forever. This is why what you're talking about - Alexander Pierce purging SHIELD's hidden masters - is not presented as a solution or a net good. The bad guy is the one doing it.

I'm not sure what you mean by "pretend to be international", except to cover up your own gaps in knowing who they were.

I never saw them as nefarious, I just saw them as jumping the gun a lot.

Have an alien invasion you don't know what to do with? Hit it with our strongest
weapon and pray! World seemingly going to shit with new bad guys popping up
every day? Create a bigger weapon!

Also, it seems like not a lot of explaining has gone into the organization of SHIELD
as a whole.

There's also this, meaning SHIELD is American, but world-wide?

This. Also, I didn't say purging them was good, it just means they weren't the bad guys, unless you're really liberal and think the government is evil. My point still stands, Tony is not evil or nefarious, and the council is just a government stand-in.

[BloodyAngel12]

There is only one Illuminati and that was made up of Tony Stark, Professor X, Prince Namor,Dr Strange, Reed Richards, Blackbolt.

[Mahourai]

This. Also, I didn't say purging them was good, it just means they weren't the bad guys, unless you're really liberal and think the government is evil. My point still stands, Tony is not evil or nefarious, and the council is just a government stand-in.

I am not a liberal. I am far beyond that.

Tony Stark is a stand-in for neoliberal capitalism. So of course he is evil.

There is only one Illuminati and that was made up of Tony Stark, Professor X, Prince Namor,Dr Strange, Reed Richards, Blackbolt.

This group, not coincidentally, is presented as a shortsighted, ignorant failure at every turn.

[Arrowstormen]

I am not a liberal. I am far beyond that.

Tony Stark is a stand-in for neoliberal capitalism. So of course he is evil.

Taking Captain America's side much? Iron Man is not "evil", and you're putting way too much into World Security Generic Government Body Council, but at the end of the day, it doesn't matter. We'll see in an year's time.

[Kelimbror]

I guess this thread of general sanity and cooperative fandom went too long without someone coming in to muck it up?

- making up bullcrap
- not listening to any facts presented
- continues to spout conspiracy theory zaniness

All the markers. Looks like one, sounds like one, probably is one. Nordic Security to the Under Bridge Sector please.

[BloodyAngel12]

I guess this thread of general sanity and cooperative fandom went too long without someone coming in to muck it up?

- making up bullcrap
- not listening to any facts presented
- continues to spout conspiracy theory zaniness

All the markers. Looks like one, sounds like one, probably is one. Nordic Security to the Under Bridge Sector please.

It happens, just nod and smile and back away slowly.

[Kelimbror]

It happens, just nod and smile and back away slowly.

Yeah :-/ haven't had coffee yet so this is a real slap in the face this morning. Backing away slowly is probably for the best.

[Kalcheus]

It looks like Agents of SHIELD may be setting something up that ties into Avengers AoU. While you could (and should) go back to the beginning of the season to follow along, I actually think going back to the post-Agent Carter premiere is enough to get caught.

[Mahourai]

I guess this thread of general sanity and cooperative fandom went too long without someone coming in to muck it up?

- making up bullcrap
- not listening to any facts presented
- continues to spout conspiracy theory zaniness

All the markers. Looks like one, sounds like one, probably is one. Nordic Security to the Under Bridge Sector please.

Why are you taking this so personally? That's a really weird thing to do.

EDIT:

You are aware this is a thread about movies, right? In Captain America: Winter Soldier, the entire film is about a decades-long conspiracy inside SHIELD. Understanding the plot of the movie does not make me a "conspiracy theorist". In Avengers, the team is controlled by an international conspiracy that can order an American city destroyed. Watching this scene does not make me believe the Illuminati exists in real life.

[ringpriest]

Since Iron Man, SHIELD has been known to be part of the US government. Heck, the "H" means "Homeland". I don't remember it being called the World Security Council, but even if it was, I don't think a lot of thought was put into it besides the fact that it would seem weird if America handled an alien invasion alone.

I was always under the impression that Coulson (or someone) was just making stuff up that fit the initials and the setting he was in. It was quite clear that SHIELD does not answer to the US government.

[Kalcheus]

I was always under the impression that Coulson (or someone) was just making stuff up that fit the initials and the setting he was in. It was quite clear that SHIELD does not answer to the US government.

Maria Hill: What does S.H.I.E.L.D. stand for, Agent Ward?
Grant Ward: Strategic Homeland Intervention, Enforcement and Logistics Division.
Maria: And what does that mean to you?
Ward: It means someone really wanted our initials to spell out "shield."

[Zoaric]

Whatever the reason, I think the SHIELD acronym in the show was very intentional.

In the comics it originally was Supreme Headquarters, International Espionage,
Law-Enforcement Division. Then in 1991 it was Strategic Hazard Intervention
Espionage Logistics Directorate. Now we have Strategic Homeland Intervention,
Enforcement and Logistics Division.

And James Gunn had a bit to say aboot Guardians 2:

There's a lot of stuff I'm excited about in the new movie. Listen, I'm still excited about Star-Lord's character and where he goes. At its heart, Guardians is a story about families, and if the first film was about him and his mother, this is a story about fathers. So it's exciting to go there. I knew for a long time what the story of the second one was gonna be... and the third one!

So 'fathers' is the theme. Guess that means the story centers either Drax, Thanos,
Quill Sr. or a combination of them. Gunn also said that Awesome Mix vol 2 tops the
last one (and that it was the most daunting part of GotG2 so far,) as well as teasing
that we'll definitely get more dancing in this one.
http://www.vulture.com/2015/04/guard...atherhood.html

[ringpriest]

Maria Hill: What does S.H.I.E.L.D. stand for, Agent Ward?
Grant Ward: Strategic Homeland Intervention, Enforcement and Logistics Division.
Maria: And what does that mean to you?
Ward: It means someone really wanted our initials to spell out "shield."

I did a little digging (Wikipedia makes trivial research easy! ) and got this (from here):
"S.H.I.E.L.D. stands for many things. Literally: The acronym was originally the shortened form of Supreme Headquarters, International Espionage, Law-Enforcement Division, before being changed to Strategic Hazard Intervention Espionage Logistics Directorate. In Marvel’s Cinematic Universe, which also encompasses the new TV show, it splits the difference and stands for Strategic Homeland Intervention, Enforcement and Logistics Division."

And oh wow, there was a Nick Fury TV-movie back in the 90s, starring David Hasselhoff.

And... ninja'd by Zoaric (That's what I get for taking the time to watch that... unique trailer).

[Kelimbror]

And oh wow, there was a Nick Fury TV-movie back in the 90s

Go watch the Fantastic Four movie they made back then that Marvel paid to have it never released in theaters or video b/c of how bad it was. The whole thing is on Youtube, but I can't post the link at work. Use your google-fu and watch the whole thing. The sad part is that it is better than the upcoming movie looks. :-/