Please blanket nerf and do not implement item upgrades.

[Dazu]

I know this 4/4 discussion is hardly relevant because the competing guilds have finished the race ages ago, the upgrade system was there during progression aswell however and I still believe it's a very poor way to "add" content by forcing people to run dailies, grind timeless isle, heroic dungeons or a dumbed down version of content they progress in on the hardest difficulty.

20 minutes to 50 + lesser charms and 200 valor. 40 vp per boss = capped easily as a raider.
So blizzard forces you to do 20 odd minutes extra play outside of raiding to give you bonus chance at loot each week and you complain? Guess you aren't the alchy/cook farming mats for raid buffs and rely on others for that?

- - - Updated - - -

I don't know why Blizzard walked away from the ICC/DS models where you had a buff that increased gradually over time that you could turn off. This allowed guilds to progress, gave people hope if they were stuck on bosses, and still provided guilds with the option of turning off the buff if they wanted the "greatest challenge".

As per item upgrades.. they're a boring feature that was added to help justify the downfall of valor/justice points. They don't bring anything interesting to me as a player.

Those zone buffs were terrible, people complained during ICC because they were so much weaker in the rest of the world. They also screw with abilities etc greatly, making some classes far to powerful for that level (paladins during ICC for example)

[Deleted]

most guilds on my server cant fill a 10 man roster yet alone a 25 man one. mine is lucky to raid once every 3 weeks . We take raiding seriously - we take real life even more so

There are hundreds of guilds clearing 14/14hc in 1-2d and have been for months on both 10/25, not to mention the tens of thousands clearing normal modes. The most active guild on my server are running three 25m hc runs a week. You need to wake up to the fact that your guild being badly managed and not meeting your raiding requirements is not a reflection on your servers state of play or the state of the game in general. Nerfs/buffs will not change this fact.

Edit - I notice from a previous post you are playing on Nagrand and examining that realm quickly I can see its pretty inactive. There is some evidence of raiding on both 25/10 but not much, I suggest either a tranfer or a reroll. Now is the perfect time to re-roll with the free boost, plenty of time to level mains and even alts if you like and get them decently geared up for WoD. Do not underestimate how much your general game experience will change on an good, active server. It really is about time people stated admitting defeat and get off these graveyard servers.

[Edc]

20 minutes to 50 + lesser charms and 200 valor. 40 vp per boss = capped easily as a raider.
So blizzard forces you to do 20 odd minutes extra play outside of raiding to give you bonus chance at loot each week and you complain? Guess you aren't the alchy/cook farming mats for raid buffs and rely on others for that?

I have been playing this game since the start with the odd 1 or 2 month break at the start, the only thing I still enjoy is raiding, I can't be bothered with the chore of doing anything outside that because I just don't want to. I do not voice my concerns about adding 2 additional levels of upgrades, I voice my concern about a system (item upgrades and valor) as a whole and state why I do not like this, you don't have to agree with me, I am entitled to my opinion.

Also, I totally rely on other people to fix my flasks and food buffs, because you can clearly say that from my opinion about the upgrade system.

[hulkgor]

This is actual bad for some players. Their guilds will expect them to upgrade further, and they will have to farm the valor point cap week after week to reach it and upgrade all their gear, when they expected to be 'done' until the expansion. Of course they can choose not to do it, but let's be real, it's wow... they won't just leave it.

So yea, i can see why a lot of people get annoyed by it, it's a silly change.

[Khorm]

This is actual bad for some players. Their guilds will expect them to upgrade further, and they will have to farm the valor point cap week after week to reach it and upgrade all their gear, when they expected to be 'done' until the expansion. Of course they can choose not to do it, but let's be real, it's wow... they won't just leave it.

So yea, i can see why a lot of people get annoyed by it, it's a silly change.

That's right son, you have to do something to get something.

[Tharkkun]

What'd you do to farm the coins ? Curious cause my 1k supply will eventually run low.

Kill frogs on the island or the areas where you reputation farm.

[Marxman]

That's right son, you have to do something to get something.

It's ironic that this argument is being used by many of the same people crying about LFR losing tier. When the hardcore players use this exact argument as to why LFR doesn't deserve tier, they call us Snowflakes. I just find it funny.

Clearly we're willing to put forth effort when it's called for. The problem is, we're at the end of a tier (the end of a tier which will last longer than the tier's relevancy) and the expectation for players like me is we're on cruise control. Log in 2 days a week, raid for 3 hours, then back to playing alts, other games, or dealing with RL. Now there's this extra little annoyance we have to deal with every week, which adds nothing to my enjoyment of the game. It can also be better accomplished in other ways, like blanket nerfing SoO.

The ONLY reason they don't like blanket nerfs is because it makes the people struggling feel like they're being shown pity... which is exactly what this change is doing. Blizzard is just disguising it well.

[Sosuke Aizen]

It's ironic that this argument is being used by many of the same people crying about LFR losing tier. When the hardcore players use this exact argument as to why LFR doesn't deserve tier, they call us Snowflakes. I just find it funny.

Clearly we're willing to put forth effort when it's called for. The problem is, we're at the end of a tier (the end of a tier which will last longer than the tier's relevancy) and the expectation for players like me is we're on cruise control. Log in 2 days a week, raid for 3 hours, then back to playing alts, other games, or dealing with RL. Now there's this extra little annoyance we have to deal with every week, which adds nothing to my enjoyment of the game. It can also be better accomplished in other ways, like blanket nerfing SoO.

The ONLY reason they don't like blanket nerfs is because it makes the people struggling feel like they're being shown pity... which is exactly what this change is doing. Blizzard is just disguising it well.

TBH I think it is just lazy to allow upgrades instead of the blanket nerf...it serves the same purpose but I guess the upgrades make you powerful outside of the current raid also.

[Wilderness]

Clearly we're willing to put forth effort when it's called for. The problem is, we're at the end of a tier (the end of a tier which will last longer than the tier's relevancy) and the expectation for players like me is we're on cruise control. Log in 2 days a week, raid for 3 hours, then back to playing alts, other games, or dealing with RL. Now there's this extra little annoyance we have to deal with every week, which adds nothing to my enjoyment of the game. It can also be better accomplished in other ways, like blanket nerfing SoO.

The ONLY reason they don't like blanket nerfs is because it makes the people struggling feel like they're being shown pity... which is exactly what this change is doing. Blizzard is just disguising it well.

I don't understand, what's this extra annoyance that you now have to deal with? That it'll be a few weeks after they implement this until you're back to full BiS? All the change does is make your clears go faster, just like a zone nerf would. Why do you think that a blanket SoO nerf would be better? Like you said, this disguises the fact that SoO is essentially being nerfed. It will make people feel better when they upgrade their gear and do bigger numbers than if they zoned in and everything just had 10% less health. That's exactly why this is a better way to go than a blanket nerf.

[Rehabveteran]

I easily prefer this over blanket nerfs for the following reasons.

1) I have something more to work towards
2) My characters become more powerful outside of SoO as well as inside.

I see no downside to this.

[theburned]

Blanket nerf doesn't do what item upgrades do - they don't prolong content for 3 months (artificially or not).

But there is other question which should be asked by the players. According to various blue posts, once WoD patch hits, all reforges, "incompatible" enchants and item upgrades will be stripped from all the gear. I might be wrong about item upgrades though. But it wouldn't feel encouraging to grind for 3 months just for it to be reverted to none. Well, all this (especially with incoming "item squish") just doesn't make any sense tbh.

I would like to see a source for those blue posts, because from what I've read, they are keeping the gem slots and other stuff.

[klogaroth]

It's ironic that this argument is being used by many of the same people crying about LFR losing tier. When the hardcore players use this exact argument as to why LFR doesn't deserve tier, they call us Snowflakes. I just find it funny.

Clearly we're willing to put forth effort when it's called for. The problem is, we're at the end of a tier (the end of a tier which will last longer than the tier's relevancy) and the expectation for players like me is we're on cruise control. Log in 2 days a week, raid for 3 hours, then back to playing alts, other games, or dealing with RL. Now there's this extra little annoyance we have to deal with every week, which adds nothing to my enjoyment of the game. It can also be better accomplished in other ways, like blanket nerfing SoO.

The ONLY reason they don't like blanket nerfs is because it makes the people struggling feel like they're being shown pity... which is exactly what this change is doing. Blizzard is just disguising it well.

If the Heart of the Valorous buff makes it to live you'll cap valor just by clearing Siege. Which would be nice.

[mitbrandir]

This also makes all current rankings on worldoflogs / warcraftlogs irrelivant

Not like those rankings matter when people only upload their last bit of insane burst and not the full fight, just to get a ranking

[CR77]

I don't think the item upgrade is to make SoO easier, it is to give people a reason to continue to farm valor to upgrade their items further.

[Khorm]

I don't think the item upgrade is to make SoO easier, it is to give people a reason to continue to farm valor to upgrade their items further.

Being farming valour takes more than 30 minutes?

[Didacticus Syntacticus]

Being farming valour takes more than 30 minutes?

How do you get 1000 valor in 30 minutes?

There must be some other currency you're referring to.

1-2 hours sure if you have two geared buddies to blow up heroic scenarios with.

[ComputerNerd]

We have had a player buff which required no effort, but the elitist jerks complained about how that was making the game too easy.
We now get a player buff that has to be earned, and still people complain.

[CR77]

More to the point 1k valor only covers 2 pieces of gear, though I would imagine most will be 3k capped when the patch hits.

[klogaroth]

How do you get 1000 valor in 30 minutes?

There must be some other currency you're referring to.

1-2 hours sure if you have two geared buddies to blow up heroic scenarios with.

If you are killing 14 bosses per week anyway, regardless of trying to cap valor, that's 14 * 40 = 560

You are then left with 440 valor to get in the rest week.

If you enter a heroic scenario and complete the bonus objective you get 150 valor for the first scenario of the day.

Do 3 scenarios across 3 days and you're capped.

Granted it's spread over 3 days, but it doesn't take much longer than 30 minutes total out of your week if you are going to be raiding anyway.

Although if Heart of the Valorous makes it to live you'll cap just by doing Siege, as I've mentioned above.

[Didacticus Syntacticus]

Although if Heart of the Valorous makes it to live you'll cap just by doing Siege, as I've mentioned above.

As far as I know, Heart of the Valorous is only intended to affect alts in the "grind 3000 valor" quest.

But I could be wrong. I kind of hope I'm not because the current effort to grind 1000 valor seems about right.