Alpha testers come here ! (Priest discussion)

[Jimjam38]

Sick job there blizz.

Anyway, I have to duck off to do a math test, but before I go I wanted to add that I've just been playing around on the PTR and I noticed that DS seems to have a higher chance of procing SoL than other abilities. Not sure if its just because it heals twice or what, but sometimes i get insta 2 stacks before it even boomerangs back. If this is a bug and gets fixed, so be it, but if not then its something worth taking note of

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And it looks like SoL isn't procing from pure absorbs like PWS either - another talent where holy gets more benefit than disc, great. WoM doesn't proc from atonement and SoL doesn't proc from absorbs. I feel the rage starting to build

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That may have always been the case, but I don't think it should be. If it procs from renew it should proc from PWS

[Zka]

Did they really lower the cost of PW:S? Looks like Disc has come full circle, heh.

/rubs hands
I actually liked pws spam in LK. Just don't tell anyone. It won't come back anyway I think.

The new changes want me to test disc again tonight.

[Jimjam38]

/rubs hands
I actually liked pws spam in LK. Just don't tell anyone. It won't come back anyway I think.

The new changes want me to test disc again tonight.

Its wise not to underestimate blizzards carelessness. PWS spam is a very real possibility. I'm personally keen on the idea of HN spam, but only because of nostalgia from the first time I played wow and I leveled as a disc priest spamming HN because a friend who had no clue told me that was what the disc spec was for. I don't think it will actually be a very engaging playstyle.

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Oh shit, look what someone on the DK forums found: http://blamecelestalon.com/ (headphones volume warning)

[Noradin]

there are 2 ways to describe disc:

it is underpowered because holy is OP or it is balanced while holy is OP

either scenario holy is OP (like resto druids). compare disc to paladins, shamans and MWs and it's a more rounded, balanced spec.

you aren't doing the same healing as holy because holy is outrageously OP atm on beta (and has been since alpha went live).

disc as it stands is probably the 4th strongest healing spec, i would argue resto druids > holy priests > paladins > discs > shamans > MWs, however the gap between holy priests and paladins is so big there is no reason to bring anything but resto druids/holy priests to mythic raids.

This is reducing specs to output numbers, which does not matter in the beta.
What matters now are mechanics and basic design flaws.

They could litterally give a class a passive healing aura with unlimited range and no active abilites at all and it could put out 'balanced numbers' if they wanted, in fact it would be increadibly easy - the more a spec is simple and boring the easier it is to make it put out certain numbers, after all.
Who would enjoy playing that class though? Not me, thats for sure.

[Zka]

Disc feels much better after the buff, but atonement is still broken. It's just too high opportunity cost for that cooldown.

[Floopa]

This is reducing specs to output numbers, which does not matter in the beta.
What matters now are mechanics and basic design flaws.

They could litterally give a class a passive healing aura with unlimited range and no active abilites at all and it could put out 'balanced numbers' if they wanted, in fact it would be increadibly easy - the more a spec is simple and boring the easier it is to make it put out certain numbers, after all.
Who would enjoy playing that class though? Not me, thats for sure.

so why are no disc priests complaining about how the spec is broken on live? people don't care a spec is simple/easy to play if it's OP. current 5.4 disc proves that, as does beta holy priest/resto druid power - both specs are easy to the point of wanting to gouge one's own eyes out, and yet no-one complains because both specs are OP.

it's a lie to say people care about mechanics/interesting gameplay, in reality people only care about how strong the spec is. IMO disc is a lot more balanced after the 10% increase, is it OP? no, is atonement a thing? no. these are both good things.

also you're speaking to a MW about "mechanics and basic design flaws" - i know what you mean, and honestly it doesn't matter. if all specs output the same #s it doesn't matter if 1 spec is harder to play than another IMO.

[Noradin]

so why are no disc priests complaining about how the spec is broken on live? people don't care a spec is simple/easy to play if it's OP. current 5.4 disc proves that, as does beta holy priest/resto druid power - both specs are easy to the point of wanting to gouge one's own eyes out, and yet no-one complains because both specs are OP.

it's a lie to say people care about mechanics/interesting gameplay, in reality people only care about how strong the spec is. IMO disc is a lot more balanced after the 10% increase, is it OP? no, is atonement a thing? no. these are both good things.

also you're speaking to a MW about "mechanics and basic design flaws" - i know what you mean, and honestly it doesn't matter. if all specs output the same #s it doesn't matter if 1 spec is harder to play than another IMO.

If you look back in these forums you will find that we did, in fact, complain.
Not only that, we did offer up ideas of how to make it more interesting than how they choose to make it.

As for MW, there is a place to complain about that, here is not it.
Stating your problems in the wrong place to sweep aside concerns of a class expressed in their own forum will help nobody.
That aside I am aware about the state of the other healing specs, I play all of them from time to time, even if I do not post as much in the other forums.

And healing well with atonement (which surprise requires the use of other spells as well) is more interesting mechanically than what we have on beta, and you even get to look at the boss from time to time.

[Basmothh]

so why are no disc priests complaining about how the spec is broken on live? people don't care a spec is simple/easy to play if it's OP. current 5.4 disc proves that, as does beta holy priest/resto druid power - both specs are easy to the point of wanting to gouge one's own eyes out, and yet no-one complains because both specs are OP.

IDK about you, but I've seen lots of complaints from Disc about how stupid it is in 5.4

Also, compared to WoD, Disc has access to the LMG and legendary cloak proc to manage, IF, Rapture, SS (PI is a lot better currently due to how obscenely strong PW:S is) and the ability to proc ToF off adds. These things are all gone in WoD, so yea, Disc has actually become more boring.

Having balanced numbers means nothing if most of the healing specs are dull as hell, which is the case right now. I can't think of a single healing spec that hasn't constantly complained about a lot of mechanics in their toolkit.

[Deleted]

Totally disagree on the fact that "Holy is so easy to play that you can go afk". One thing is to throw heals randomly, another is to do the right thing at the right moment.


Anyway, yesterday I healed some istances for the first time. Here the differences I noticed on fights that require movement and where people never stack:


HOLY
Feels in a good position. In 5 man - assuming we are in Serenity chakra - we have 3 instant cast (HW: Serenity, Renew, CoH) plus PoM on Divine Insight procs and maybe FDCL's free istant Flash Heals. The interaction between those spells in the toolkit is great and helps mobility a lot. Moreover, two stack of Serendipity allow you to cast a quickened and cheaper CoP when needed, and glyphed BH refreshes renew on all 3 targets hit by the spell. LAst but not least, a well placed Lightwell helps with smart heals. Nice! Just new DH looks a bit strange =/


DISC
Struggling. Boring. OMG I wanna quit the spec. On movement fights we can only cast PW:S and Penance (only if glyphed). Holy Nova is simply useless if the group is spread. We have no access to instant PoM procs from Divine Insight nor Serendipity stacks, so:
- PoH is never worth casting due to the mana cost unless you just activated Archangel --> Divine Aegis for sure;
- Atonement sucks, also 'cause you probably want to save Penance for healing on the move instead of damaging;
- CoW is strong, but it cannot be cast while moving;
- SS is still strong but, aside from the fact that you cannot use it while moving, its short duration and the high mana cost of the spell needed to use it (Heal, PoH) makes it a "meh" talent choice;
- Not being in Archangel is hardly viable;
- PW:B, as I often said before, is ridicolously useless most of times for being a 3min cd.



PS: I won't consider Words of Mending at all, for me it's only a bad joke from Blizz to give us such a crappy lvl 100 talent.

[Jimjam38]

DISC
Struggling. Boring. OMG I wanna quit the spec. On movement fights we can only cast PW:S and Penance (only if glyphed). Holy Nova is simply useless if the group is spread. We have no access to instant PoM procs from Divine Insight nor Serendipity stacks, so:
- PoH is never worth casting due to the mana cost unless you just activated Archangel --> Divine Aegis for sure;
- Atonement sucks, also 'cause you probably want to save Penance for healing on the move instead of damaging;
- CoW is strong, but it cannot be cast while moving;
- SS is still strong but, aside from the fact that you cannot use it while moving, its short duration and the high mana cost of the spell needed to use it (Heal, PoH) makes it a "meh" talent choice;
- Not being in Archangel is hardly viable;
- PW:B, as I often said before, is ridicolously useless most of times for being a 3min cd.



PS: I won't consider Words of Mending at all, for me it's only a bad joke from Blizz to give us such a crappy lvl 100 talent.

I don't exactly disagree with you on all those points, but you probably should consider WoM for movement fights. You seem to think its the most offensive thing ever, but I personally think its a great talent that's just sadly undertuned. It should proc from atonement (even if we don't necessarily use atonement much anymore) and its arguable that PoM needs a buff, but I actually think it's the most interesting talent we got given, and has great potential, especially in spread out fights. Comparatively CoW is boring shit that we didn't really need and will only take as long as it's tuned so high, and Saving Grace is so obviously problematic in PvP that I think we can expect to see it gone in under a tier.
Would you care to explain why you think WoM is so bad that it can't be fixed with tuning? Everything else you said seems pretty reasonable and accurate, so I'm just wondering why the WoM hate?

[rylai21]

Honestly if they fixed Surge of Light and Twist of Fate to proc from absorbs I'd be much happier. And maybe remove AA from the game to make atonement 100% optional (like it should be imo)... but unfortunately that seems to be our "interesting" mechanic going forward.

[Deleted]

I don't exactly disagree with you on all those points, but you probably should consider WoM for movement fights. You seem to think its the most offensive thing ever, [...] I'm just wondering why the WoM hate?

I hate it not because I think it's an absolute shit, but because I find RIDICULOUS it's a level 100 talent. High-end talent, ultimate talent. Please, no. Wth?!

Moreover, it' still another talent also Holy can pick, so it gives Disc no exclusive advantage.

Comparatively CoW is boring shit that we didn't really need and will only take as long as it's tuned so high

I agree, we didn't need another shield. But we have it, it's strong so we'll use it.

[Deleted]

I hate it not because I think it's an absolute shit, but because I find RIDICULOUS it's a level 100 talent. High-end talent, ultimate talent. Please, no. Wth?!

Moreover, it' still another talent also Holy can pick, so it gives Disc no exclusive advantage.




I agree, we didn't need another shield. But we have it, it's strong so we'll use it.

All of the holy/disc level 100 talents are horse shit basically.

[Deleted]

Agreed, but at least CoP for Holy has some nice use: it costs less than PoH and it's smart.

[Floopa]

All of the holy/disc level 100 talents are horse shit basically.

words of mending is like a 10% healing increase for holy (which just spams renew/coh).

10% healing from 1 talent is pretty huge imo

[Deleted]

Yet another idea I had today that will never happen:

1) Leave Binding Heal for All Specs.
2) Glyph Disc/Holy only.
3) Spectral Guise Baseline.

New talent in its place, Shared Pain (due to the fact I can't think of a better name).

3m CD. When cast on a target, whomever between you has the lowest health % takes 30% reduced damage for 6s, but 50% of that is dealt to the other. In addition, you gain interrupt immunity to binding heal for its duration.

[Zka]

You talk about "instances", I interpret that as 5mans, so I'm a bit puzzled at some things.

two stack of Serendipity allow you to cast a quickened and cheaper CoP when needed

Why would one ever spec CoP outside of raids? It's just a weaker PoH that ignores group boundaries, or am I overlooking something?

Holy Nova is simply useless if the group is spread.

HN is useless unless there are like 10+ people stacked, which also won't happen in most circumstances. Obviously, you don't even need this on the action bar in 5mans.

- Atonement sucks, also 'cause you probably want to save Penance for healing on the move instead of damaging;

True. Atonement is really broken right now. The opportunity cost just defeats the purpose in most cases.

PS: I won't consider Words of Mending at all, for me it's only a bad joke from Blizz to give us such a crappy lvl 100 talent.

Still much better than CoP for 5mans. I actually have it specced on holy and it's good.

[Comfort]

HN is useless unless there are like 10+ people stacked, which also won't happen in most circumstances. Obviously, you don't even need this on the action bar in 5mans.

Not really, it could be a lower amount of players stacked, as the spell is capped at 5. as long as there is enough players in a 12 yard radius that have taken damage to warrant using an aoe heal over using single target heals.

its also viable in 5 mans, for example moving between packs that do aoe damage. you can use it while moving to reduce downtime before pulling another pack.

[anon5123]

Power Word: Shield 3% 2.4% of Base Mana.
Resurrection Brings a dead ally back to life with 35% health and mana. Cannot be cast when in combat. Can't be cast in Shadowform. 4% 0.8% of Base Mana. 40 yd range. 10 sec cast.

Perks
Enhanced Power Word: Shield Reduces the duration of Weakened Soul caused by your Power Word: Shield by 5 sec. 3 sec.

Discipline
Discipline (New) Increases healing and absorption done by 10%. Priest - Discipline Spec.

Disc's healing is not 10% lower than Holy's, more like 20-25% lower.

Still much better than CoP for 5mans. I actually have it specced on holy and it's good.

Yeah, I'm kinda stuck with Words of Mending right now because Clarity of Purpose is only good for Disc (or raid-healing Holy), and Saving Grace is a joke.

IMO Saving Grace should be reworked to be reduce the healing of just Saving Grace, not all healing. Something like each cast reducing its effectiveness by 25%, or just giving it a Charge system (like Angelic Feather). In its current state, it's really stupid, because using it cripples your healing for 10 seconds.

[Zka]

Yeah, I'm kinda stuck with Words of Mending right now because Clarity of Purpose is only good for Disc (or raid-healing Holy), and Saving Grace is a joke.

Disc doesn't have CoP, it's CoW

IMO Saving Grace should be reworked to be reduce the healing of just Saving Grace, not all healing. Something like each cast reducing its effectiveness by 25%, or just giving it a Charge system (like Angelic Feather). In its current state, it's really stupid, because using it cripples your healing for 10 seconds.

Yeah I agree.