Will "class fantasy" ruin warrior?

[Murlocbait]

Nay, we are Odyn's errand boys and not leading the battle from Valhalla. And the bold part is crap - unless you derive this from TV shows such as Vikings.

Yeah, historical vikings had two things going for them:
1. They were ruthless as fuck.
2. They had no fear of death in combat - that was their ideal.

So that makes for a pretty brutal warrior to go up against, but not necessarily an amazing one. There are far better models of warrior cultures in human history: samurai, Spartans, Romans, Zulus, Mongols, Huns, etc. Hell, even the various Germanic tribes such as the Visigoths would've been an excellent source for warrior culture in WoW.

But, ultimately, the problem is that Blizz has spent literally ALL of Warcraft development, gameplay, and history establishing how the warriors of each race, culture, and faction are very VERY different. Not just in WoW, but starting with the very first Warcraft game - which is basically knights vs barbarians. So they've spent decades creating the idea of warrior fantasy revolving around country and race, then had to figure out how to undo all of that to make a singular class fantasy and hall for us. The only way to do it is with something so grandiose that it pulls us up above our differences and unites us under a common banner. A true, badass Titan could've done that - Odyn is not it.

They needed to spend the time and resources to actually create a new warrior faction in which we would join together to defend Azeroth from the horrors trying to destroy all we hold dear. Instead they shoe-horned us into a dungeon/zone storyline they had already written and called it a day. I hate the use of "lazy" to try to degrade the work that Blizz does, since it is so often over-used, but in this instance, it really does feel like they were just fucking lazy when it comes to warrior fantasy and lore.

[Heladys]

Warriors are soldiers of the Alliance or Horde, simple as that for now. IF Bliz wants to join them under one thing, Titan would be a good fit. Most are part warrior I believe anyway.

Bullshit. We are pretty clearly very far from just rank and file "soldiers". We take no orders from anyone and we serve under no one.

[Deleted]

So that makes for a pretty brutal warrior to go up against, but not necessarily an amazing one. There are far better models of warrior cultures in human history: samurai, Spartans, Romans, Zulus, Mongols, Huns, etc. Hell, even the various Germanic tribes such as the Visigoths would've been an excellent source for warrior culture in WoW.

Just like to chime in here. None of those had a Warrior focused afterlife quite like the Vikings. Also, none of those were as cosmopolitan and wide spread as the Nordic "Viking berserker" idea.

I'd be happy to go into more on the Germanic Wotan mythos and why it's such a good fit for Warriors if you'd like, but I feel people just want to vent about specifics here.

[Archimtiros]

Just like to chime in here. None of those had a Warrior focused afterlife quite like the Vikings. Also, none of those were as cosmopolitan and wide spread as the Nordic "Viking berserker" idea.

I'd be happy to go into more on the Germanic Wotan mythos and why it's such a good fit for Warriors if you'd like, but I feel people just want to vent about specifics here.

People want to vent because despite the similarities and obvious references to Viking/Norse mythology, they really aren't that comparable.

If we showed up at the HoV greeted by a bunch of easily recognized and formerly known Warriors welcoming us to Valhalla, that'd be one thing, but it's not. Instead the hall is filled with nobodies which we have no relation to, even if they were named and notable NPCs. Heck, even the "Warrior" connection is tenuous at best, as the Vrykul version of Warrior, and the player version of Warrior are vastly differently.

In all, it's just underwhelming. It could have been a grand Warrior afterlife, but it isn't. It may look pretty, but it's superficial; behind the pretty face is a whole lot of nothing.

[Murlocbait]

Just like to chime in here. None of those had a Warrior focused afterlife quite like the Vikings. Also, none of those were as cosmopolitan and wide spread as the Nordic "Viking berserker" idea.

I'd be happy to go into more on the Germanic Wotan mythos and why it's such a good fit for Warriors if you'd like, but I feel people just want to vent about specifics here.

Oh i know. I wasn't suggesting those other ideas as part of a "warrior afterlife." I think the whole warrior afterlife thing is a bad foundation to begin with (and Blizz isn't even doing it - we're in Vrykul heaven, not warrior heaven). I was pointing out cultures that I think would've been stronger as a foundation for "this historical source could be used as the basis of a warrior class identity/fantasy" than vikings.

Though, if they had actually used the All-Father as the inspiration for a real Titan, not some dumbass who got locked in his own house and has been sitting around doing nothing for millennia, then we might have something interesting here. Ultimately, even with viking inspiration, Odyn is a piss-poor version of Woden.

[Fanvarg]

It's not.

They could have united Warriors by making a Class Hall that serves as HQ for everyone but has race-specific quarters by organizing the Warriors in regiments. That would fit the military Warrior fantasy perfectly without shoehorning them into this Valhalle theme. Because it's wiser to emphasize everyone's strengths and combine them.

That means, we could have something like a huge fuckin Fortress with a neutral Main Hall in the centre where the Generals meet to discuss tactics and strategy while the standard soldier is sparring, drilling and working in their respective, race-specific quarters/barracks.

Orcs and Humans provide the main battle force and backbone of the army.
Dwarves are responsible for the Smithy and Armory.
Gnomes and Goblins tinker new war machines.
Night Elves lead the vanguard and scouting parties.
Blood Elves bolster the defenses against magical enemies.
Worgens are very mobile infantry, practically light cavalry.
Taurens serve as shock troops or meat walls.
Draenei function as field medics and tend the wounded when no real healer is available.
Pandaren maintain logistics and supplies for the war effort.
Trolls...keep the morale up

That saying: it's not like that a Draenei exclusively serves as field medic or a Dwarf sits in the Armory all day. It only represents the main responsibilities,strenghts and stereotypes of each race. An exquisite Troll Smith will of course help crafting more weapons and armor, a stout Dwarf will stand beside a Tauren to hold a critical chokepoint with shield in hand. In the end, all work together for a common goal and most of the Warriors are used at the front lines anyway.

We, their Commander, would lead them and make best use of our combined forces.


At least, that's what I imagine when I think of Warriors preparing and going into war.

Yea thats a great idea. The various military factions of azeroth,Top Arena Legends, and The best martial mercenarys would be the best. Knights of stormwind (Varian),Dwarven Mountain kings(Muradin),Night elf sentinals(Shandris),The gnomish commandos(Gelbin),The draenei exarchs(Commodus),the gilnean soldiers (Genn) The orcish horde (Saurfang) The Darkspear Beserkers (Vorlath) The Forsaken Executors (Anselm) The Bloodhoof Tribal Warriors (Baine) The Forces of Silvermoon (Halduron)The Bilgewater Battalion and The Gob Squad (commander Molotov) The Shado Pan (Taran Zhu). How badass would you feel leading this coaltion? Would you not feel more involved if it starred famous warriors we know instead of warped norse mythology that didnt exist til now?

[Calamari]

Yea thats a great idea. The various military factions of azeroth,Top Arena Legends, and The best martial mercenarys would be the best. Knights of stormwind (Varian),Dwarven Mountain kings(Muradin),Night elf sentinals(Shandris),The gnomish commandos(Gelbin),The draenei exarchs(Commodus),the gilnean soldiers (Genn) The orcish horde (Saurfang) The Darkspear Beserkers (Vorlath) The Forsaken Executors (Anselm) The Bloodhoof Tribal Warriors (Baine) The Forces of Silvermoon (Halduron)The Bilgewater Battalion and The Gob Squad (commander Molotov) The Shado Pan (Taran Zhu). How badass would you feel leading this coaltion? Would you not feel more involved if it starred famous warriors we know instead of warped norse mythology that didnt exist til now?

Sounds way more warrior than the alien and forced viking theme in Legion. If there is any common theme to warriors, it has always been military might, simple and true. A peasant without any magical gifts or elemental bonds can leave home, pick up the sword and with proper training, determination, discipline, blood and sweat be forged into a mighty warrior.

A paladin can always pray to the Light to help overcome his enemies if his body fails him, a death knight may draw upon unholy power to cheat death for another day, a shaman has their ancestors and the elements always at their side.. A warrior has no tricks up their sleeves. No smoke and mirrors to help them escape when things get rough..

Warriors only have their training, a beating heart, the life and the blood pounding in their veinsm, and the tools in their hand. A warrior either draws deep and will find enough will to stand up again and again after hard blows, or let go and die. The warriors creed, simple and true.

Maybe after drifting off into viking magic and golden sky castles Blizzard will hopefully decide to return to what warriors have always been about. At least it would have been great to have a base for warriors in Azeroth tied to the plot, that isn't exclusive for one faceless warrior but a place for all warriors, where they can live and prepare together.

[Deleted]

Warriors arent just your `elite soldier` that trained realy hard.

Warriors are hereos that draw thier super human strength from thier relentless fury and thier unstoppeble willpower to fight on til the end of days.

When they say they want to get shit done they wont stop untill shit is done, we are far off from just your common soldier as some people claim.

[Murlocbait]

Warriors arent just your `elite soldier` that trained realy hard.

Warriors are hereos that draw thier super human strength from thier relentless fury and thier unstoppeble willpower to fight on til the end of days.

When they say they want to get shit done they wont stop untill shit is done, we are far off from just your common soldier as some people claim.

We, as players, might not be the common soldiers (though some of us think we should be closer to them), that's true. BUT, those common soldiers are counted among our brothers and sisters. The whole point of the warrior class is basically the message of the movie Ratatouille: Anyone can be a warrior. It doesn't mean any schmuck who picks up a sword is suddenly a warrior - but with the right training, effort, and time, a mighty warrior can come from any background.

[Zenny]

We, as players, might not be the common soldiers (though some of us think we should be closer to them), that's true. BUT, those common soldiers are counted among our brothers and sisters. The whole point of the warrior class is basically the message of the movie Ratatouille: Anyone can be a warrior. It doesn't mean any schmuck who picks up a sword is suddenly a warrior - but with the right training, effort, and time, a mighty warrior can come from any background.

You've basically described a ton of classes here.

- but with the right training, effort, and time, a mighty Mage can come from any background.
- but with the right training, effort, and time, a mighty Warlock can come from any background.
- but with the right training, effort, and time, a mighty Hunter can come from any background.
- but with the right training, effort, and time, a mighty Rogue can come from any background.

It's true that anyone can become a warrior, but in order to become a Warrior (note the capitalization) you need something... more. It's not totally clear what that 'more' is though, but what our class abilities are is not something one gets from mere training. I get it that some people want us to be common soldiers, but we most obviously are not. It would actually be more unbelievable is we were, common soldiers do not go toe to toe with elite Death Knight's, Paladins and Demon Hunters.

[Toppy]

You've basically described a ton of classes here.

- but with the right training, effort, and time, a mighty Mage can come from any background.
- but with the right training, effort, and time, a mighty Warlock can come from any background.
- but with the right training, effort, and time, a mighty Hunter can come from any background.
- but with the right training, effort, and time, a mighty Rogue can come from any background.

It's true that anyone can become a warrior, but in order to become a Warrior (note the capitalization) you need something... more. It's not totally clear what that 'more' is though, but what our class abilities are is not something one gets from mere training. I get it that some people want us to be common soldiers, but we most obviously are not. It would actually be more unbelievable is we were, common soldiers do not go toe to toe with elite Death Knight's, Paladins and Demon Hunters.

That something more is just pure skill and determination.

There are plenty of warriors in the hyborian age.

But only one as great as Conan the Barbarian.

[Zenny]

That something more is just pure skill and determination.

I'm not sure how just skill allows one to throw lightning, burst into flames, and shout hard enough to damage and stun opponents. Warriors must have some sort of power that can be tapped into via training and/or combat. Maybe it's something Titan/Elemental related.

[Calith-]

I'm not sure how just skill allows one to throw lightning, burst into flames, and shout hard enough to damage and stun opponents. Warriors must have some sort of power that can be tapped into via training and/or combat. Maybe it's something Titan/Elemental related.

People give a lot of attention to some minor glyphs and talents, Stormbolt originates from the Dwarven Stormhammers, you're not throwing lightning like a Shaman, you're throwing an enchanted weapon. Dragon Roar is a thing because Skyrim memes. The fiery charge and enrage is just flair (even if everyone should use them because they're awesome), they don't turn the class as a whole into an Elemental Warrior more than the Illusion glyph turns Mages into Illusionists.

The Class Fantasy blogpost only mentioned weapon skills, strength and leadership but so many people are arguing about what defines the class and keep pointing to talents and glyphs. It shows that the class is vague and confusing, Blizzard has piled effects and abilities onto the class with little thought to the whole and instead of using Legion to clarify or flesh out the actual class, Blizzard uses Warriors to shove more Vrykul lore into the game.

[Murlocbait]

You've basically described a ton of classes here.

- but with the right training, effort, and time, a mighty Mage can come from any background.
- but with the right training, effort, and time, a mighty Warlock can come from any background.
- but with the right training, effort, and time, a mighty Hunter can come from any background.
- but with the right training, effort, and time, a mighty Rogue can come from any background.

Not at all true. As far as we can tell, magical ability seems to be something you are born with in the Warcraft universe, and your abilities can then be honed and refined through training. So Druids, Shaman, Mages, Warlocks, etc. are all born with magical potential and then train to get better at it. Not just anyone can become one of those things. Priests and paladins are a bit more questionable since their power comes through their beliefs - but it's still possible that someone has to be born as a conduit for the Light and its power. Hunters are not just people running around with bows and arrows - they are born with an innate connection to the natural world, and its beasts in particular. They bond with their pets, being able to see through their eyes and connect with them in a mystical way. There are really only three classes that fit the "anyone can become one" and that's warriors, monks, and rogues.

Rogues have moved away from this as they have become more and more connected to shadow magic/energy. They can teleport through shadows and even imbue their weapons with shadow power. Monks seem to be able to come from any background, and simply require extensive training to learn to use Chi energy. So really, what i described connects with Monks and Warriors.

Warriors are all about one thing: steel. It's all about armor and weapons. Warriors in WoW don't use magic, they simply don't. Glyphs and such aside, warriors are always shown in the game relying on their weapons, strategic training, and strength. The class theme and hall should've been about turning the various warriors of different nations into a single army with one purpose: to defend Azeroth by defeating the Legion. All this Vrykul shit is nonsense.

[Cyclonus-WOW]

Warriors are hereos that draw thier super human strength from thier relentless fury and thier unstoppeble willpower to fight on til the end of days.

My new Forum signature I think. It's glorious.

SO, this is the proof we needed guys. Class Fantasy will not kill Warriors.

I suddently feel the urge to replace song lyrics ( i'm sorry ).



You can't kill the Warrior
Warrior will live on
Warlock tried to kill the Warrior
But they failed as they were smite to the ground

Noob Mage tried to kill the Warrior
But they failed as they were stricken down to the ground
Rogues tried to kill the Warrior
They failed as they were thrown to the ground

No one can destroy the Warrior
The Warrior will strike you down with a vicious blow
We are the vanquished foes of the Warrior
We tried to win for why, we do not know

Noob Mage tried to destroy the Warrior
But the Warrior had its way
Rogue, then tried to dethrone the Warrior
But Warrior was in the way

Warlock tried to destroy the Warrior
But Warrior was much too strong
Death Knight tried to defile the Warrior
But Death Knight was proven wrong

Warrior, it come from Hell

[Zenny]

Warriors are all about one thing: steel. It's all about armor and weapons. Warriors in WoW don't use magic, they simply don't. Glyphs and such aside, warriors are always shown in the game relying on their weapons, strategic training, and strength. The class theme and hall should've been about turning the various warriors of different nations into a single army with one purpose: to defend Azeroth by defeating the Legion. All this Vrykul shit is nonsense.

I disagree that Warriors don't use some sort of magical ability. The super human feats alone discount that.

[Deleted]

I disagree that Warriors don't use some sort of magical ability. The super human feats alone discount that.

Warriors have attained a lot of expertise in melee combat and mastered it - there is nothing super natural involved.

[Zenny]

Warriors have attained a lot of expertise in melee combat and mastered it - there is nothing super natural involved.

Mastering combat does not allow one to do superhuman feats.

[Cyclonus-WOW]

Warrior's on E-harmony.

"I'm just a simple guy. I have normal skills. I'm pretty strong. And you don't have to worry about me summoning demons or freezing you by accident. I have taken anger management, ITS FINE."

[Murlocbait]

I disagree that Warriors don't use some sort of magical ability. The super human feats alone discount that.

I don't see anything warriors do as magical. Some stuff is exagerated for game balance/effects. But every time we see a warrior in a cinematic or similar situation, there is no magic going on - just pure martial skill and power.