Celestalon insight about rogues (not mentioned in mmo-champion blue posts)

[ThunderTaco]

snip

Very well, I don't feel like going through all the threads where rogues cry about their class just to try and convince them that their class is unique, fun and strong.

Everyone is crying about the nerfs and how Bizzard broke their class. And when they don't make changes, the class is strong but people still complain.

Anyway, have a nice day and enjoy being OP.

infracted: trolling

[straws]

Very well, I don't feel like going through all the threads where rogues cry about their class just to try and convince them that their class is unique, fun and strong.

Everyone is crying about the nerfs and how Bizzard broke their class. And when they don't make changes, the class is strong but people still complain.

Anyway, have a nice day and enjoy being OP.

Problem is the rogue changes missing from patch notes. Last 5 builds there had been a single line of change that is either rename/typo fix of toolip or increase in cost of burst of speed. How can they change hunter rotations making them more "dynamic" and in the same breath saying that its too late for making rogue changes. That is why we are frustrated and scared that things will remain the way they are and bugs and issues will make it to live game and it will take blizz a whole patch to wake up, just like it happened in MoP.

[Deleted]

Very well, I don't feel like going through all the threads where rogues cry about their class just to try and convince them that their class is unique, fun and strong.

Everyone is crying about the nerfs and how Bizzard broke their class. And when they don't make changes, the class is strong but people still complain.

Anyway, have a nice day and enjoy being OP.

You've got a personal vendetta against the class itself. You're incapable of being objective and "don't feel like" taking in or looking up facts, you know, shit that matter.

Your words mean nothing.

[dak1]

Even with my 586 warlock, I can't win against a rogue, even if I don't have any dangerous mob on timeless isle that can OS me while he keeps me stunned for 10+ seconds, he just blows all his cds and if I get the upper hand, he justs CoS vanish and just wait for my CDs to end and then kill me, thanks AoC.

Rogues killed me in the horde camp on timeless isle

I'm so glad you posted this, because you literally match the stereotype of people who hate rogues perfectly. You've gotten ganked by Rogues in 1v1 world pvp, aren't very good at pvp (I'll explain), and think this therefore means Rogues are fine or OP and have a hatred of the Rogue class.

First, if you don't want to engage in world PvP, don't play on a PvP server, and don't flag PvP.

Second, Blizzard has explicitly stated that they do NOT balance around 1v1, and that world PvP is pretty much by definition usually unfair.

Third, if you play your class correctly, you actually should have the advantage 1v1 against Rogues. While Rogues have traditionally been an extremely strong 1v1 class, they're near the bottom of the barrel in MoP. As a Warlock, you actually have the advantage 1v1 as well, especially since the fix to Blood Horror (a good Rogue used to be able to avoid Blood Horror by positioning themselves at max melee range and attacking from stealth, but that's no longer the case -- your bugs get fixed!). Using Shivarra gives you even better control. A Rogue still has a chance, but they need to play nearly perfectly, including being able to preemptively predict when you'll use certain CCs and cloaking them, for example. If a Rogue is consistently cloaking your Mortail Coil/Shadowfury, for example, then you're just being way too predictable. If you don't keep Blood Horror up on yourself while wandering around flagged on Timeless Isle, then well, that's your own fault too (Blood Horror will completely negate Subterfuge and a stealth opener). And if the Rogue is using CoS to just Vanish and hide, then you should also have the advantage. And if the Rogue is bursting, Dark Intent and Dark Bargain are great ways to completely negate their burst. Know when to use them.

You don't seem to understand how the guards work either, so you're really not helping your case. Hint: the aggressive person needs to be in the guard's aggro range.

As a Rogue, I need to understand intimately the talents/spells of every other class, how they function, when they are going to use defensive/burst/CC, and what each one is, as well as its cooldown. I play other classes just to become more familiar with their mechanics. I can tell how many Burning Ember you have just by looking at you. I am always aware of if you have Blood Horror up and how long ago you put it up. I know if you have a Succubus/Shivarra or if you sac'ed your pet just by looking at you, and have strategies for dealing with both scenarios. I know exactly when you pop your burst and I need to play defensively.

You seem to think you don't need to know anything about another class and should be able to win anyway.

[theturn]

I don't see the class in as bad of shape as people on here do but then again I don't play the game very seriously anymore. I would like to see less passive damage and stabilized energy regeneration. Assassination feels good but both combat and sub feel awkward and because of that I have largely ignored them. I used to love combat and maybe if I had the weapons for it I would choose it. I am unhappy with the lack of Dev attention but I don't think the class needs to be blown up either.

[Hellfury]

Alot of rogue damage is still very passive, and might not be as fun as some other classes, but number wise rogue DPS is really good but single/cleave and AOE(even too good)

Also the fact that they will fit like a glove in a world where there is no flying mounts and Ashram.

Rogue lost almost no CC tool, and kept his great gap closers, casters gona feel like sitting ducks because of they massive CC lost and most damage on the move.

Expect lots of QQ threads about them ganking stunlock rogues.

[Mikita-EU]

Alot of rogue damage is still very passive, and might not be as fun as some other classes, but number wise rogue DPS is really good but single/cleave and AOE(even too good)

Also the fact that they will fit like a glove in a world where there is no flying mounts and Ashram.

Rogue lost almost no CC tool, and kept his great gap closers, casters gona feel like sitting ducks because of they massive CC lost and most damage on the move.

The emphasis of this entire, whole thread is placed on the fact that certain aspects of the class remain untouched and somewhat broken. We're not saying 'WE GOT NERFED SO MUCH' and expect someone to reply telling us of all the things we have. We know we still have some things good. It's the fact that changes need to be made and nothing is happening - not a reply, or even consideration.

That's what is causing anger.

[Skarzog]

Forget changes for a moment. We won't get them, I've accepted it already. I am going to be speced into Shadow Focus, don't give a crap, Cheat Death, don't give a crap, Anticipation for another expansion. Fine.

What bothers me is we are not even getting some attention during the damage pass now either? But Rogue damage is fine! Well simple minded commenter, damage pass isn't just about tuning over all damage. For example.

Death from Above is a a talent and a dps loss... hmm... we might want to fix that. Oh yea did I mention it still does not working a fraction of the time this late into the beta. Oh well here is hoping for 6.1.

Main gauche is leading up to be combat's highest damage whereas SS/RS are kinda crap. This will most likely lead to people equipping their highest damage weapon in their offhand. There is even talk of using a dagger main hand just because SS/RS damage is so bad.

Shadow Reflection still does not copy poison damage making it extremely weak for Assassination. Even in a single target situation Venom Zest as far as my experience goes is only slightly behind Shadow Reflection for Assassination.

So unless Blizzard has this magical foresight with Rogues that allowed them to hit the nail on the head for every spell and talent the first week, some tuning would be nice.

[Creed]

Apparently another beta build is incoming- Might we see our class on that list? Time will tell.

If not; We revolt!

[Feali]

Apparently another beta build is incoming- Might we see our class on that list? Time will tell.

If not; We revolt!

Burst of Speed energy cost increased to 50.

[Geckoo]

Burst of Speed energy cost increased to 50.

WoW dev orgasm: Burst of Speed energy cost will now scale with haste.

[Nightman]

WoW dev orgasm: Burst of Speed energy cost will now scale with haste.

Pickpocket: Enemy target now drops everything in their inventory

[darthbear]

Problem is the rogue changes missing from patch notes. Last 5 builds there had been a single line of change that is either rename/typo fix of toolip or increase in cost of burst of speed. How can they change hunter rotations making them more "dynamic" and in the same breath saying that its too late for making rogue changes. That is why we are frustrated and scared that things will remain the way they are and bugs and issues will make it to live game and it will take blizz a whole patch to wake up, just like it happened in MoP.

Let's not forget Warriors, who they just about turned upside down in yesterday's patch. o.o; This late in an expansion, we're still not important enough to be worked on. Forget the talents or making our damage less passive. I just want the buggy things fixed at this point. >< The CPs display, the L100 talents who's name isn't Venom Rush, and this insanity of... Combat Daggers?! And for them to just stop screwing with BoS. Come back later when you really want to fix the class, and then give us a solution that actually works.

Though we shouldn't have to wait a patch in to get fixed. Ah well, adapt and assassinate I spose.

[Vigilate]

Forget changes for a moment. We won't get them, I've accepted it already. I am going to be speced into Shadow Focus, don't give a crap, Cheat Death, don't give a crap, Anticipation for another expansion. Fine.

What bothers me is we are not even getting some attention during the damage pass now either? But Rogue damage is fine! Well simple minded commenter, damage pass isn't just about tuning over all damage. For example.

Death from Above is a a talent and a dps loss... hmm... we might want to fix that. Oh yea did I mention it still does not working a fraction of the time this late into the beta. Oh well here is hoping for 6.1.

Main gauche is leading up to be combat's highest damage whereas SS/RS are kinda crap. This will most likely lead to people equipping their highest damage weapon in their offhand. There is even talk of using a dagger main hand just because SS/RS damage is so bad.

Shadow Reflection still does not copy poison damage making it extremely weak for Assassination. Even in a single target situation Venom Zest as far as my experience goes is only slightly behind Shadow Reflection for Assassination.

So unless Blizzard has this magical foresight with Rogues that allowed them to hit the nail on the head for every spell and talent the first week, some tuning would be nice.

I can confirm the Dagger in MH hand math. Simc Comparisons:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/kkcljza1rt..._new.html?dl=0

[pentavelant]

It burns when i pee,can they fix that?
Infracted.

[Coldkil]

I can confirm the Dagger in MH hand math. Simc Comparisons:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/kkcljza1rt..._new.html?dl=0

LOL. The great return of combat dagger.

I expect a tweet telling us they did it on purpose to give us more options.

[ymirsson]

4 Sec CS into a 5 sec kidney, is that even possible?

[Sativ]

4 Sec CS into a 5 sec kidney, is that even possible?

You can do 4/4 as Combat.

[Hitei]

I apologize if someone brought this up already and I missed it, but it seems like Holinka and Celestalon have cut back massively on their responses to tweets. Celestalon now only does a couple a day and Holinka has been tweeting random crap unrelated to wow or retweet announcements from the game's main twitter lately.

I wonder if they finally got tired of dealing with players.

[Grayjoy]

Transparency is great to a point, but that kind of access and buddy-buddy chit chat can sometimes be a PR disaster if you misstep. I don't mind them not tweeting. It's a stressful experience for everybody, honestly.