[6.0 Guide] Fury - "I just spent 10 seconds mastering Arms, now what?"

[VanirWoW]

Even with this buff, M T18 is only slightly better on ST than M T17. The gap between H T18 v M T17 would tilt back in T17's favor, and for anything with even one extra target there is no contest.

What has to change for that to change outside of nerfing T17 though?

[neck deep]

Even with this buff, M T18 is only slightly better on ST than M T17. The gap between H T18 v M T17 would tilt back in T17's favor, and for anything with even one extra target there is no contest.

hurray for "buffs" then. hopefully i'm able to get the last couple of pieces i need from mythic for t17 then, or otherwise i'm going to have to go back during hfc and get the remaining couple of pieces. i hope this isn't all they have planned for the tier set bonuses, because after trinket nerfs, warriors don't have very much to look forward to in hfc.

[Ryanite]

hurray for "buffs" then. hopefully i'm able to get the last couple of pieces i need from mythic for t17 then, or otherwise i'm going to have to go back during hfc and get the remaining couple of pieces. i hope this isn't all they have planned for the tier set bonuses, because after trinket nerfs, warriors don't have very much to look forward to in hfc.

I don't remember seeing any trinket nerfs? what were they?

[zyen]

I think Fury's mastery should be similar to most of the other classes.. just give a flat % damage increment even without enrage.

It's frustrating for everything to be balanced around "did BT crit?"

[Archimtiros]

I don't remember seeing any trinket nerfs? what were they?

I don't think any of our trinkets got nerfed, but I have to double check. Hungering Blows got buffed, as did the Gladiator version of Worldbreakers. Both are still pretty meh however.

- - - Updated - - -

hurray for "buffs" then. hopefully i'm able to get the last couple of pieces i need from mythic for t17 then, or otherwise i'm going to have to go back during hfc and get the remaining couple of pieces. i hope this isn't all they have planned for the tier set bonuses, because after trinket nerfs, warriors don't have very much to look forward to in hfc.

Warriors are actually looking very good in T18. Although our tier bonuses may not be very great, or even used, we've got a lot going for us.

- - - Updated - - -

What has to change for that to change outside of nerfing T17 though?

Eh, not too much can change honestly. There's a limit on what Recklessness does for us, even gaining over 30% uptime doesn't make a huge difference. Regardless, even if it is useful for single target, it's not going to do any good on AoE.

T17 probably won't get nerfed though. The reason Arms got nerfed is because synergies with other items in HFC made it stronger than it should have been. This isn't happening with T17, it is exactly the same in HFC as it is in BRF. It is simply better than T18. While I won't disclose the possibility of it getting nerfed, the core of the problem is that T18 is so lackluster.

[neck deep]

I don't remember seeing any trinket nerfs? what were they?

the damage of empty drinking horn was changed from 3500 over 15 seconds per stack to 1100 over 15 seconds per stack, and the cleave trinket was taken from 50k to 30k

Warriors are actually looking very good in T18. Although our tier bonuses may not be very great, or even used, we've got a lot going for us.

Whether or not we're looking very good is only partially motivating to me to stick with it this time around. The "fun tier" of neat proc trinkets/proc weapons/good set bonuses is the one I'd much rather play what's the most fun since I have that flexibility. Trinkets taking a giant hit, and shit set bonuses are bringing down the excitement level a new tier would usually bring, and I'm sure that's understandable for most.

[Zenlogic]

the damage of empty drinking horn was changed from 3500 over 15 seconds per stack to 1100 over 15 seconds per stack, and the cleave trinket was taken from 50k to 30k

It really raped ST.

[Aquariun]

So because our t17 is pretty awesome compared to t18, is it worth taking a backseat to let other people take Protector tokens in HFC because we won't get much out of them anyway?

[DDM]

Never trust its trinket suggestions. For other gear, as long as you import your own stat weights it should be fine.

And i'am not pretty sure about this either.
I sim my char with every new piece i get. And after i got my mythic socketed gloves, AMR tells me now, that Heroic The Black Hand is better than a Mythic Weapon (can't remember if it was Thogar or Flamebender). That's just ... well ... i don't know what to say.

And as long as i am not enraged the whole time, i prefer to go crit>mastery>haste because everybody is saying different things about haste. With this in mind, my equipment choice is pretty easy.

(If somebody is interested, my Char is DDM on Mal'Ganis EU. Can't post any links by now. Need more posts )

[Archimtiros]

And i'am not pretty sure about this either.
I sim my char with every new piece i get. And after i got my mythic socketed gloves, AMR tells me now, that Heroic The Black Hand is better than a Mythic Weapon (can't remember if it was Thogar or Flamebender). That's just ... well ... i don't know what to say.

And as long as i am not enraged the whole time, i prefer to go crit>mastery>haste because everybody is saying different things about haste. With this in mind, my equipment choice is pretty easy.

(If somebody is interested, my Char is DDM on Mal'Ganis EU. Can't post any links by now. Need more posts )

I believe you. I honestly haven't used AMR myself since WoD released, precisely because I don't trust it! Honestly, just get on board with simcraft, I can guarantee you that it is on point for Warriors.

As for Stats, Haste becomes worthwhile in between certain percentages, it all depends on where your stats lie. Although I am past the point where I need to pick up Haste, thanks to using a Thogar weapon, I would probably not bother to gem/enchant for Haste anyways, simply because the mediocre gains aren't that important to me, especially not when we are going into a new tier shortly that will change everything anyways.

- - - Updated - - -

the damage of empty drinking horn was changed from 3500 over 15 seconds per stack to 1100 over 15 seconds per stack, and the cleave trinket was taken from 50k to 30k

Thanks for the update, I don't know why I didn't see that. I'll have new simulations out tomorrow. Just guesswork but unless they changed the proc on cleave, it's probably going to come out ahead of DoT. We'll see if the improved Hungering can keep up with it. Haste will still be the go-to pick for AoE and ST.

[ReclusiarchGrim]

Never trust its trinket suggestions. For other gear, as long as you import your own stat weights it should be fine.

- - - Updated - - -



Actually it was done to make T18 (2p and 4p) better, as both are very lackluster. Trust me, it's a good move.

Thanks for the feedback.

What about Avatar vs Bloodbath?

I was always under the impression that you use Avatar as Fury and Bloodbath for Arms, but my guildie warrior seems to think otherwise.

I get that bloodbath is awesome with Multistrike and seeing how I have Vial, it could synergize well, but I just don't feel that it outweighs Avatar with that flat damage buff.

[Khelon]

Is it worth it to use mythic forgemaster over heroic vial? My sim is showing about same result, would that mean in single target fights vial beats it but forgemaster pulls ahead on aoe?

Armory: EU -> Kazzak -> Khelon if that helps.

Also is forgemaster a better choice for arms due to cs being 20 sec cd?

Thanks for the feedback.

What about Avatar vs Bloodbath?

I was always under the impression that you use Avatar as Fury and Bloodbath for Arms, but my guildie warrior seems to think otherwise.

I get that bloodbath is awesome with Multistrike and seeing how I have Vial, it could synergize well, but I just don't feel that it outweighs Avatar with that flat damage buff.

I used avatar because vial is 20 sec duration and avatar is too. Sure you get to use 1 more bloodbath in between the 2 avatars you do, but I dont think it matters that much.

Bloodbath is good for arms because it lines perfectly up with ravager & roar, fits perfectly for a fight like maidens.

[bladeXcrasher]

Heroic Vial is better than Mythic Forgemaster, I've been waiting forever to replace mine, it was the first item I got from a cache. Mythic Forgemaster is barely better than Mythic Tectus, due to the large amount of static strength.

[Deleted]

T17 probably won't get nerfed though. The reason Arms got nerfed is because synergies with other items in HFC made it stronger than it should have been. This isn't happening with T17, it is exactly the same in HFC as it is in BRF. It is simply better than T18. While I won't disclose the possibility of it getting nerfed, the core of the problem is that T18 is so lackluster.

Legendary ring says hello. With T17M gear, Fury currently sims with a ~140s interval on Recklessness, and I would imagine that the haste trinket and improved gear in general would bring that to sub-120s, meaning perfect synergy with the ring. Here's hoping the T17 bonuses remain unchanged, though.

[DDM]

I believe you. I honestly haven't used AMR myself since WoD released, precisely because I don't trust it! Honestly, just get on board with simcraft, I can guarantee you that it is on point for Warriors.

As for Stats, Haste becomes worthwhile in between certain percentages, it all depends on where your stats lie. Although I am past the point where I need to pick up Haste, thanks to using a Thogar weapon, I would probably not bother to gem/enchant for Haste anyways, simply because the mediocre gains aren't that important to me, especially not when we are going into a new tier shortly that will change everything anyways.

How are you evaluating your gear and stats?
Just sim every piece of gear and see, which one is best? Also socketed, wf, socketed+wf ... (this means a lot of simulations ;-) )?



In MoP i used the combination of simcraft and AMR to get the best results and you were always able to rely to the results.
Get a new piece of gear, sim it, take the new ratings to AMR and you got your reforgings, sockets, enchants ...
(Exactly what i do, or at least did until the problem mentioned in the last post. Now, i don't trust AMR any more!)

With reforging gone and also enchants mostly it's on the one hand a lot easier to optimise, even without simulating after every new piece of gear. But on the other hand it seems, like it is still very complicated because nobody really nows what is best. But to be fair, all the rng in fury makes especially the haste stat not that easy.

With WoD now, even with changing the stats in AMR to the simmed stats, AMR doesn't provide the best information like i said.
Atm i am fine with using the stat priority like i said.
Just get as much gear with crit/mastery on it and enchant + socket with crit.
But i also use a Thogar weapon. Changing this one, if i get maybe someday a mythic one, i wouldn't know if i should keep the HC Thogar weapon or the HC The Black Hand, even if i lose a lot of haste.

I mean, i am not a big theorycrafter, but i want to improve my character and i understand, why there is a big debate about haste. But i think you will never find a perfect solution because haste and crit are playing off against each other in some way.
If you have a lot of crit, you have to rely on your luck to crit with every BT. If it doesn't crit, you can do nothing. So you probably want more haste to get more BTs for a higher chance to stay enraged even if 1 or 2 BTs doesn't crit in a row. But you still want (a lot of) crit. So you mostly have to change mastery with haste. But if you crit now with every BT, you overwrite the enrage buff "to often" but still can't pull enough dps because you lack of mastery.

[Crisius]

Wonder how long into the tier it will be before they realize they need a mechanical change on the tier bonus.

[Deleted]

Wonder how long into the tier it will be before they realize they need a mechanical change on the tier bonus.

My guess is 1day before mythic opens.

[bladeXcrasher]

Wonder how long into the tier it will be before they realize they need a mechanical change on the tier bonus.

Wouldn't align with Celestafails vision of a 'furious berzerker, WS feels furious to me'. They could change it to 'While Bloodsurge is active Wild Strike always critical strikes and your critical strike chance increases its damage.' and it will still suck, just less.

[Deleted]

My guess is 1day before mythic opens.

You seem to have typed "3 weeks into Mythic progression" - np, I got you

[Deleted]

My guess is 1day before mythic opens.

Probably 1 week later than that