Classmate killed a women and only got 10 days in jail.

[Gephyrophobia]

Would teach him to pull over when he's tired....or not get on the road at all.

Oh, you don't think splattering someone on his windshield taught him that?

[Melkandor]

I don't think anyone just passes clean the fuck out while at the wheel. You feel yourself getting tired then make the decision that you'll be okay and continue driving.

I think it's obvious as to who still gets driven around by their parents all day

Being really exhausted and driving is far more dangerous than distracted driving, such as using your phone while driving, drunk driving, and drugged driving. Sometimes you just slip in and out of slumber and then you remember you're driving a 2 ton death trap.

[Tisane]

In my country a driver killed 3 cyclists including a few years old kid because he drove 50 kilometers too fast and slipped off the road due to it. He only received 120 hours of community service because the evidence wasn't 100% clear, even though police had 90% evidence that he drove too fast. I bet they used the same reasoning in your classmate's case.

[hellosaltygoodness]

people are a bit too quick to put people in prison. prison should be a place to hold dangerous criminals, not a place to store non-dangerous people we just feel need to be "punished" for an accident they made.

[Septik]

I don't think anyone just passes clean the fuck out while at the wheel. You feel yourself getting tired then make the decision that you'll be okay and continue driving.

sounds like someones never done a long haul or worked a hard day in their life! :P

[OmniSkribe]

people are a bit too quick to put people in prison. prison should be a place to hold dangerous criminals, not a place to store non-dangerous people we just feel need to be "punished" for an accident they made.

I would be really interested to hear how you'd sing if it was your mother/father/wife dead and the guy got out of jail sentence simply by "Oh sorry I was asleep".

Reckless homicide is a death in the end and should have a real sentence (not as harsh as willful killing, but still sentence). Stupidity, laziness, carelessness and disregard for others is not a excuse.

[Themius]

I would be really interested to hear how you'd sing if it was your mother/father/wife dead and the guy got out of jail sentence simply by "Oh sorry I was asleep".

Death by negligence is a death in the end and should have a real sentence (not as harsh as willful killing, but still sentence). Stupidity, laziness, carelessness and disregard for others is not a excuse.

Actually in a documentary about sleep deprivation in america (and how it's almost part of our culture) there was a husband and his two children who said that there were two victims, his family that died, and the driver because they have to live with that and it's partly because our culture expects so much of people.

Stupidity laziness and carelessness? I guess this describes the majority of Americans who function day to day on too little sleep then, and the majority of night time workers, all those doctors working nights are stupid and lazy.

[OmniSkribe]

Actually in a documentary about sleep deprivation in america (and how it's almost part of our culture) there was a husband and his two children who said that there were two victims, his family that died, and the driver because they have to live with that and it's partly because our culture expects so much of people.

Stupidity laziness and carelessness? I guess this describes the majority of Americans who function day to day on too little sleep then, and the majority of night time workers, all those doctors working nights are stupid and lazy.

Wha? Driving 101 is: You don't drive if you feel yourself tired. Why? Because you can cause an accident that could take someones (not only yours) life, justice system shouldn't give a flying fuck that the "Driver" thought that coffee/pills (or even without it) would be enough for him to stay awake behind the wheel. It's absolutely the same situation as with alcohol and driving. You by your own chose decided to sit in the car and and all the responsibility on you for this action. Or this is not taught to people in American driving schools?

The second part, I won't even comment, no words. You logical assumption has nothing to do with my comment.

[poser765]

You're contradicting yourself. Why would someone drink a bunch of coffee if they aren't fatigued? If you're having to drink a ton of coffee to keep going, maybe you shouldn't be behind the wheel of a car? Most normal people know if they're having to continually consume caffeine, especially in large doses, that they're fatigued. It's pretty rare that someone goes, gee I'm just low on caffeine.

Yes, you're very aware of the ways fatigue affects you. That doesn't mean the average person doesn't know when they're fatigued. If you need a stimulant to get behind the wheel, you shouldn't be behind the wheel. Period.

I'm not really contradicting myself at all. I'm not saying people aren't able to recognize when they may be getting fatigued...I am way too many people have the mistaken idea that just because they don't FEEL fatigued that they are not fatigued, which is not the case. I feel fatigued, and slam a coffee. Now I don't feel fatigued. The reality is I am still fatigued it's just not nearly as obvious. I feel fine, self assess, and assume I am safe to operate a vehicle...all the while those symptoms of the fatigue are still manifest.

That's just one example. how about a more passive illustration that doesn't require action on my part. Fatigue is cumulative. Lets say for several nights I have failed to get sufficient sleep. I start to build up what is referred to as sleep debt. I can still feel perfectly fine and rested, but in actuality I am still fatigued. This is where it starts to get really not apparent. All of the same symptoms (poor judgement, delayed reactions, etc) are still very likely to occur despite the fact I can still self assess as being properly rested.

This issue has hit my industry rather hard recently. Fatigued has been linked to several accidents that has caused substantial property damage and loss of life. The NTSB and the FAA found that people where often working in safety sensitive rolls in a situation where fatigue was not apparent or misjudged. As a result of that fatigue assessment, management, and awareness training has become a priority and focus area. Essentially requiring people in my field require training to help us better understand when we are fatigued...and what it really means to be fatigued. All this in a group of highly skilled, and highly trained professional who work in a very complex environment.

So no, recognizing fatigue is not nearly as simple and as self evident as you want it to be.

[Ayla]

If you are sufficiently tired you can easily fall asleep sitting in a chair. In fact for some people and under certain road conditions you can get highway hypnosis despite being well rested. Which I think is what happened to truck drivers especially the one that hit Tracy Morgan.

I have only fallen asleep on an airplane once (and lets say I have 200 hours of flying or so in me). I had a 30 minute nap and the only reason I fell asleep was because I was high on gravol and had 1 hour sleep the previous night. Even then, I knew I was going down.

The other times I have fallen asleep in a sitting position was due to surgery and having to sleep like that for 2 weeks. Even then drugs drugs drugs. I have to be extremely fatigued to fall asleep sitting up and even then I know its coming.

[Masoner]

So last year a classmate of mine fell asleep while driving and ended up killing a pedestrian.

Today he was told he only had to serve 10 days of a 90 day sentence, 5 years probation, 300 hours of community service, and license suspension for a year. I'm pretty sure they dropped the charge from vehicular homicide to something lesser as well.

I feel bad for both sides and my classmate is a nice guy but is that really it? Just fishing for other opinions on this.

If you don't set out to kill someone or set out to kill someone specific it's not murder and the justice system is not gonna put you away for life.

[poser765]

I have only fallen asleep on an airplane once (and lets say I have 200 hours of flying or so in me). I had a 30 minute nap and the only reason I fell asleep was because I was high on gravol and had 1 hour sleep the previous night. Even then, I knew I was going down.

The other times I have fallen asleep in a sitting position was due to surgery and having to sleep like that for 2 weeks. Even then drugs drugs drugs. I have to be extremely fatigued to fall asleep and even then I know its coming.

I've sort of trained myself to sleep in the back of an airplane. It's almost a Pavlovian response at this point. "Ladies and gentlemen, the main cabin door has been closed, all large electronics need to be powered down and stowed and all handheld devices need to be in airplane" is pretty much Pavlov's bell the puts me right to sleep.

I'll go one step further and mention something that some of you may or may not be aware of...the pilots up front sleep often. Not both at the same time, obviously, but cat naps (or "studying the overhead panel" as we refer to it) happen a lot. And it does nothing but increase safety of flight.

[OmniSkribe]

If you don't set out to kill someone or set out to kill someone specific it's not murder and the justice system is not gonna put you away for life.

No one is talking about "for life". You can't kill someone even due to negligence and simply walk away from it with no real punishment.

[Themius]

Wha? Driving 101 is: You don't drive if you feel yourself tired. Why? Because you can cause an accident that could take someones (not only yours) life, justice system shouldn't give a flying fuck that the "Driver" thought that coffee/pills (or even without it) would be enough for him to stay awake behind the wheel. It's absolutely the same situation as with alcohol and driving. You by your own chose decided to sit in the car and and all the responsibility on you for this action. Or this is not taught to people in American driving schools?

The second part, I won't even comment, no words. You logical assumption has nothing to do with my comment.

You say anyone who does that is stupid lazy and so on, so I mentioned the people that often do.

[pucko97]

If it wasn't on purpose I think living with the memory for the rest of his life is punishment enough.

[OmniSkribe]

You say anyone who does that is stupid lazy and so on, so I mentioned the people that often do.

I don't. I say that people who are to lazy or careless or simply don't give a fuck about other people around them should get punished. Night shift workers always can take bus/taxi/train etc. without risking pedestrians/other driver's life. Your university degree or IQ or job has nothing to do with personal qualities. Medic can be a shit person too.

If you as a person worked whole night and by the morning rubbing your eyes and yawning who will sit in the car thinking "Oh it's like 30 minutes to my house, nothing bad will happen" and not understanding that you will endanger people around you. If you don't give a fuck and start your engine, you deserve the punishment for killing someone. "Negligent homicide" article of law is exactly for this.

If you don't understand that the guy in OP took someones life, LIFE, something that you will never return or will be able to pay off to relatives of the victim and will hide behind american's society lifetsyle or other arguments then we have nothing further to discuss.

[Themius]

I don't. I say that people who are to lazy or careless or simply don't give a fuck about other people around them should get punished. Night shift workers always can take bus/taxi/train etc. without risking pedestrians/other driver's life.

If you as a person worked whole night and by the morning rubbing your eyes and yawning will sit in the car thinking "Oh it's like 30 minutes to my house, nothing bad will happen", you will endanger people around you. If you don't give a fuck and start your engine, you deserve the punishment for killing someone. "Negligent homicide" article of law is exactly for this.

If you don't understand that the guy in OP took someones life, LIFE, something that you will never return or will be able to pay off to relatives of the victim and will hide behind lifestyle or other arguments then we have nothing further to discuss.

Why do you instantly assume this person is that then?

[poser765]

I don't. I say that people who are to lazy or careless or simply don't give a fuck about other people around them should get punished. Night shift workers always can take bus/taxi/train etc. without risking pedestrians/other driver's life.

If you as a person worked whole night and by the morning rubbing your eyes and yawning will sit in the car thinking "Oh it's like 30 minutes to my house, nothing bad will happen", you will endanger people around you. If you don't give a fuck and start your engine, you deserve the punishment for killing someone. "Negligent homicide" article of law is exactly for this.

If you don't understand that the guy in OP took someones life, LIFE, something that you will never return or will be able to pay off to relatives of the victim and will hide behind american's society lifetsyle or other arguments then we have nothing further to discuss.

the fun thing is most people aren't knowledgeable about fatigue to properly evaluate themselves. If you do any substantial amount of driving I can almost guarantee you have driven fatigued at some point. You can claim you haven't, but I will just assume you are like most and can't properly asses their own fatigue, or have assessed improperly. It's sort of a don't judge others, lest ye be judged situation.

Also, capitilizing the word "life" really doesn't do anything other than offer an appeal to emotion.

[petej0]

I have only fallen asleep on an airplane once (and lets say I have 200 hours of flying or so in me). I had a 30 minute nap and the only reason I fell asleep was because I was high on gravol and had 1 hour sleep the previous night. Even then, I knew I was going down.

The other times I have fallen asleep in a sitting position was due to surgery and having to sleep like that for 2 weeks. Even then drugs drugs drugs. I have to be extremely fatigued to fall asleep sitting up and even then I know its coming.

A little off topic and not the same as this situation, but part of basic training is sitting in class learning basic combat life saving etc... well anyways the room is warm from so many people in it, plus the fact that you are operating on little sleep. I have been so tired that I didnt realize I was asleep until I woke up. I have nodded of (seconds mind you) while standing in formation. It is funny and scarey at the same time.

Wha? Driving 101 is: You don't drive if you feel yourself tired.

Look up highway hypnosis. You dont even have to be tired, you can just zone out from a boring drive. I actually feel a lot of "fell asleep driving" accidents are actually highway hypnosis. Regardless, each case has to be taken in context. In most cases, the death of someone on their conscience is punishment enough for these people. They are not a danger to people, so they shouldnt be placed in prison. A probation period and license suspension is sufficient.

[Captain N]

I'll go one step further and mention something that some of you may or may not be aware of...the pilots up front sleep often. Not both at the same time, obviously, but cat naps (or "studying the overhead panel" as we refer to it) happen a lot. And it does nothing but increase safety of flight.

This applies to the railroad as well. When stopped at a signal the Engineer and Conductor will decide who gets to nap first and who gets to stare at a red light and listen to the radio for the first hour. Since it's fairly common to spend 3-4 hours staring at the same signal this doesn't hamper operations and allows the crew to work safely once their train does get the departure signal or allows them to drive home more rested if they are being re-crewed.