I can't believe we've just forgotten about N'Zoth and Azshara.

[Madruga]

Y'know, speaking of Lich Kings, Arthas' body is still somewhere unknown, just lying around empty, in many ways the perfect vessel...

Just checked the whole "Spider Kingdom" idea, and it blew my mind. I so wish that were true!

I know it has been just one expansion since we last saw Old Gods, what with Y'shaarj and the Sha all over Pandaria, but I kind of miss them already.

Specially since the Iron Horde feels so... bland... in comparison. But that may be just bad writing.

[Fatalfuror]

Just checked the whole "Spider Kingdom" idea, and it blew my mind. I so wish that were true!

I know it has been just one expansion since we last saw Old Gods, what with Y'shaarj and the Sha all over Pandaria, but I kind of miss them already.

Specially since the Iron Horde feels so... bland... in comparison. But that may be just bad writing.

Iron Horde = ME CRUSH ALL
Burning Legion = LOL I'M SO EVIL

It's because there's no depth to their motivations. Moreover, there's little mystery in their stories.

There's still so much not known about the Old Gods that makes them interesting as focal points for expansions. About the only thing we have left to find out about Sargeras is how much more powerful he is than any player or group of players, because we already know his end-game. He wants to destroy the universe and remake it as his own, undoing the work of the Titans and everything else he sees as imperfect.

We still don't know where Old Gods come from. How large they really are. How powerful they are unchained. How exactly their battle with the Titans went down on Azeroth. How far ahead do their plans go? Their true motivations are still unknown - what little we've seen is focused primarily on escaping. It's that large chasm of the unknown that's enticing to me. Their forms are chaotic and lend itself to a much different artistic design than we've seen lately, too. Horde/Burning Legion designs are so .. normal, typical. Demons and Orcs, oh my.

The storyline has far more places to go when you throw Old Gods into the mix, too. WoD has been pretty boring, except for Cho'gall's brief appearance (RIP, you'll still be my favorite as far as boss dialogue goes).

[EasyButter]

I hope Azsahara is in the next expac, would be fun to see another naga storyline.

[Octavius]

Naga will be playable, trust me. When blizzard is going to be ready to introduce naga, then We will have naga-old gods expansion. Btw it's true, lot of mistery around the old gods while the legion is so predictable. IMO they made a mistake introducing kil'jaeden in such way during BC. They wasted his apparence.

[Lolretadin]

Iron Horde = ME CRUSH ALL
Burning Legion = LOL I'M SO EVIL

It's because there's no depth to their motivations. Moreover, there's little mystery in their stories.

You could also oversimplify the Old Gods and their motivations to "BECAUSE ME WANTS TO," but that would be rather stupid.

There's still so much not known about the Old Gods that makes them interesting as focal points for expansions.

That's not really true, we do have a relatively comprehensive idea of what they are and their motivations, or at least what they are as far as we are concerned. In fact, we really know less about the Titans than we do the Old Gods, especially seeing as almost all information about the Old Gods we have gotten directly from the Titan constructs, whereas the only information we have really gotten on any of the Titans has come from non-canon sources.

About the only thing we have left to find out about Sargeras is how much more powerful he is than any player or group of players, because we already know his end-game. He wants to destroy the universe and remake it as his own, undoing the work of the Titans and everything else he sees as imperfect.

So you're asserting:
(1) We know Sargeras' end-game, hence the road by which we get there will be uninteresting.
(2) We don't know the Old God's end game, hence the road by which we get there will be interesting.
These are both completely asinine statements.

We still don't know where Old Gods come from. How large they really are. How powerful they are unchained. How exactly their battle with the Titans went down on Azeroth. How far ahead do their plans go? Their true motivations are still unknown - what little we've seen is focused primarily on escaping. It's that large chasm of the unknown that's enticing to me. Their forms are chaotic and lend itself to a much different artistic design than we've seen lately, too. Horde/Burning Legion designs are so .. normal, typical. Demons and Orcs, oh my.

Do we need to know where they come from? Does it really matter? We don't even fully understand Demons in that regard, yet you are asserting that because we are unaware as to where Old Gods originate from, it must be interesting?
Do we care how large they are? It seems like a rather inane thing to want, especially seeing as we have many examples of powerful beings being able to change their size on a whim.
While we do not know how powerful an Old God is at "full power," it seems like a silly thing to care about. Hell, we haven't even fought demons like Mannoroth at full strength, what makes you think that knowing the extent of their power matters?
We have a fairly good idea how the war with the Titans went, and it was a one-sided fight from the get-go... I don't believe that there was an instance in which the Titans did not have an upper hand. The only thing I would say that there is left to understand is why the Titans did not destroy them all, and why they did not capture and imprison N'zoth.

The storyline has far more places to go when you throw Old Gods into the mix, too. WoD has been pretty boring, except for Cho'gall's brief appearance (RIP, you'll still be my favorite as far as boss dialogue goes).

That's a rather subjective thing to say.

[Octavius]

We have a fairly good idea how the war with the Titans went, and it was a one-sided fight from the get-go... I don't believe that there was an instance in which the Titans did not have an upper hand. The only thing I would say that there is left to understand is why the Titans did not destroy them all, and why they did not capture and imprison N'zoth.

Not true. "The panthéon united barely triumphed over the old gods, divided". This is a statement I saw somewhere which is also reported on wowpedia (old gods section). And N'zoth seems quite powerful, he did notable things like breaching the dream and trasforming it in a nightmere, corrupting Neltharion. And all your retorical question " does that matter?", "do We care about it?" and others are completely personal. For example, I care little of the legion until Sargeras shows out or kil'jaeden shows us exactly why he is THE DECIVIER with a great plot against azeroth. The sunwell was not such a great idea. Even if the scourge was quiet a triumph if not Ner'zhul rebellion. On the other hand I hardly desire to know more about the titans, expecially what did it mean the last words of murozond "Aman'thul what I've seen...". The titans could not be benevolent after all.

[Lolretadin]

Not true. "The panthéon united barely triumphed over the old gods, divided".

The Mogu, by themselves, were able to kill Y'shaarj.

And N'zoth seems quite powerful, he didn't notabile things like breaching the dream and trasforming it in a nightmere, corrupting Neltharion.

The transformation of the Emerald Dream was due to the Nightmare Lord, Xavius (who was a Demon that worked for N'zoth).
Corrupting Neltharion took tens of thousands of years.

And all your retorical question " does that matter?", "do We care about it?" and others are completely personal.

I must say, "WOOSH!" The point went over your head. The point of the questions was to point out how inane their comments that "the Old Gods are more interesting than the Legion", which is subjective.

[Octavius]

Maybe the old gods were different in strenght. And if I remember correct it is a speculation/interpretation (strong and supported but still a speculation) the mogu killing Y'shaarj. Y'shaarj maybe was weak compared to N'zoth and Yoggy. Who knows. This is part of the mistery. All right, it is all subjective: many think the legion is interesting, but many think the old gods are too. About the nightmare, Malfurion sensed the nightmere borning in the rift of Aln, where an "ancient evil" lurks. Xavius spread it.

[Aquamonkey]

Not true. "The panthéon united barely triumphed over the old gods, divided". This is a statement I saw somewhere which is also reported on wowpedia (old gods section).

...because the titans stopped trying to kill the Old Gods and switched to non-lethal force. It is quite easy for titans to kill them, they've actually killed a lot.

Maybe the old gods were different in streght. And if I remember correct it is a speculation/interpretation (strong and supported but still a speculation) the mogu killing Y'shaarj.

That is exactly what the mogu legend says.

"Stone struck at the heads of the beast.
The shadow bled into land and sky -
Fear and rage that would not die.
Storm's will was done.
Stone's purpose fulfilled."

[Octavius]

Not true. "The panthéon united barely triumphed over the old gods, divided". This is a statement I saw somewhere which is also reported on wowpedia (old gods section).
...because the titans stopped trying to kill the Old Gods and switched to non-lethal force. It is quite easy for titans to kill them, they've actually killed a lot.

It is unclear. It is true the titans stopped killing Old gods after they killed Yshaarj first (and the last old god? What about him? Is he dead?) but blizz also stated the titans could not kill N'zoth, nor imprisoning him. It feels to me that he was too powerful and/or dangerous for some reason. The whole war against the old ones is unclear. And the fact that the old gods were divided still remain relevant: could the titans have killed them if United?

[Aquamonkey]

It is unclear. It is true the titans stopped killing Old gods after they killed Yshaarj first (and the last old god? What about him? Is he dead?)

Yes, Y'Shaarj was killed.

but blizz also stated the titans could not kill N'zoth, nor imprisoning him. It feels to me that he was too powerful and/or dangerous for some reason. The whole war against the old ones is unclear.

Blizzard said the titans couldn't "defeat" N'Zoth. Said nothing about not being able to kill it, which no longer became their goal after Y'Shaarj.

And the fact that the old gods were divided still remain relevant: could the titans have killed them if United?

The Old Gods did join forces to fight the titans.

[Octavius]

Nope, they were fighting among themselves. As I wrote, blizz stated "the pantheon united barely triumphed over the old gods, divided". Fine, killing him was no more their goal, so they could not defeat and imprison him, what does it change? It is strange. And I mean the fifth, not Y'shaarj: We know nothing about him, not even his name.

[Verdugo]

They cannot die not in the mans they are "immortal and indesctructible" but because they do not live in the first place (full quote: "they do not live, they do not die, they are outside the cycle") - ergo, are not alive in OUR, mortal meaning. On the other hand, from the Yogg Saron Puzzle Box:



Meaning that everyting has an end, even Old Gods. Nothing is eternal.

Really? It sounded to me like a random gibberish that some Blizz intern wrote, because he heard about cthulhu mythos only from indie games.

[Deleted]

I find them both pretty forgettable.

With the Neptulon raid scrapped I don't know if we'll ever see a resolution on that storyline. They COULD just edit the end of Throne of the Tides so that Ozumat doesn't grab him at the last second. There isn't even any quest text or speech in game to acknowledge that happened, I didn't notice it the first few times I ran the dungeon.

Honestly I'd much rather they resolved the Magatha Grimtotem storyline...



There's no evidence he was taking a direct role in those events. The Faceless generals may have been acting of their own volition, serving Deathwing and the Twilight Cult on the assumption that this is in line with N'Zoth's goals (probably would've been). There's also no evidence he was influencing Deathwing directly, rather than simply the suggestion he implanted milennia ago in his mind turning him further and further to madness. For all we know N'Zoth remains safely imprisoned wherever the Titans trapped him.

The devs made some suggestion that we'd see more of him before DS came out, but nothing came of those comments, so I can only assume they changed story direction. Maybe they'll revisit him in the future, maybe not.

'N'Zoth was giving DW cheques' said at a blizzcon board

[Aquamonkey]

Nope, they were fighting among themselves. As I wrote, blizz stated "the pantheon united barely triumphed over the old gods, divided". Fine, killing him was no more their goal, so they could not defeat and imprison him, what does it change? It is strange. And I mean the fifth, not Y'shaarj: We know nothing about him, not even his nane.

The Old Gods' armies were led by the most powerful elemental lieutenants: Ragnaros the Firelord, Therazane the Stonemother, Al'Akir the Windlord, and Neptulon the Tidehunter. Their chaotic forces raged across the face of the world and clashed with the colossal Titans. Though the elementals were powerful beyond mortal comprehension, their combined forces could not stop the mighty Titans. One by one, the elemental lords fell, and their forces dispersed. (Source)

Also, Metzen said the Old Gods lorded over the ancient civilization tentatively named the "Black Empire".

We've had a lot of discussion about the ancient, ancient history of Warcraft. The era of the Titans. The era of when the Old Gods came. We have a running idea on kinda loosely calling it the Black Empire. It was kinda one the first primordial civilizations on Azeroth, lorded over by the Old Gods and their Elemental Lord lapdogs. But there were a number of races that comprised this ancient civilization. Some of you guys will remember like the Faceless Ones and things like that were lost under the arctic ice of Northrend. Back in the day, there were lots of these guys creeping around and various proto-insectoid humanoids. The Aqir are kinda what were left of this ancient species. So, in a lot of ways, all the insect people you see creeping around the world of Azeroth at various states, in one way or another, were once corrupted by and lorded over by the Old Gods. (Source)

[Deleted]

Aquamonkey, that underlined part of the text refers to Elemental lords that they joined their forces. I did have to read it twice, but it talks about Elementals, not Old Gods. Yes, Elementals were ruled by Old Gods, but Blizz has stated that Titans fought each Old God separatedly.

[Aquamonkey]

Aquamonkey, that underlined part of the text refers to Elemental lords that they joined their forces. I did have to read it twice, but it talks about Elementals, not Old Gods. Yes, Elementals were ruled by Old Gods, but Blizz has stated that Titans fought each Old God separatedly.

The Elemental Lords were not all ruled by a single Old God. It says the Old Gods' armies were led by the Elemental Lords. When they combined armies, they represent their respective Old God masters also combining forces.

And as Metzen stated, the Old Gods lorded over a single civilization/empire.

[Deleted]

Yes, that is true. But since the battle took place eons ago, we can only speculate how vast that empire was. Metzen's statement about them lording over a single empire sounds odd, because they were fighting each others. But then again we propably won't comprehend the plans of the Old Gods. It could be that Elementals were fighting against each others and Titans interfered, but i can't claim it to be true.

Destruction of Well of Eternity blew up around 80% of the land mass of the ancient supercontinent. As we have seen the presence of the Old Gods from Northrend to Pandaria, i doubt Pantheon could had attacked them at the same time. Tho it could be possible as Titans can alter planets how ever they want.

[Octavius]

Maybe is a comprehensive definition. As We call the union of our nations "Humanity", but our nations aren't a single governament body. Afterall, "old goddy" doesn't sound very cool. The various forces lorded by the OG could have been called the Black Empire. The same black empire sounds odd to me, blizz often said the old gods want only azeroth as a chaotic land of madness, chaotic is not a good definition for a true civilization. Very unclear stuff.

[Errtu]

OK, if we're playing it like that, Archimonde didn't actually die, he let himself be banished to the nether and has been absorbing all of the latent magic there to become Sargeras 2.0. Sound like bullshit? Well, you can't prove me wrong, so I must obviously be right!

But really, saying things like "these losses are actually victories!" is inane when you have no evidence to prove it.
Extraordinarily claims require extraordinary evidence.
A claim without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

man, it's theories, those theories are about nzoth and azshara, you want a theory thread about archimonde, set one up.

no one needs to give any evidence for anything, it's talking about possibilities, chill out.