I can't believe we've just forgotten about N'Zoth and Azshara.

[Octavius]

Or, maybe, Old Gods being a things of pure chaos don't act "rationally" or "logically" in our understanding? I mean - they have one ultimate goal (freeing themselves) - but how do they achieve it and when do they achieve is something the don't care about?

We know very few things about the Old gods afterall, so it is definitely possible. They are creatures outside the cicle. And what if the corruption of the bronze is a work of THE OTHER old god? We don't even know what his name is. Ry'uleh? Or something else?

[Lolretadin]

Well, it's true the flight are depowered. About the big-bad-very intentional plan of N'zoth, I don't know. Depowering the aspects is a good result but he lost vast forces too. And if he was capable of hitting hard even in the immediate aftermath of the cata, why he didn't it while horde and alliance butchered each other?
Maybe, as krasus supported in the Wofta, he simply switchs to another plan which requires time.

The point of the sarcastic statement was to say that there's nothing to say that the Bronze Dragonflight has any more/less influence in the time-ways than the Infinite Dragonflight, and that to assume that the Bronze Dragonflight is in some way less influential solely based on the fact that they are, in essence, outsourcing to us for problems that we can deal with. There are far too many assumptions that must be made to state that they have more or less influence than one another, and would require us to also assume that the only anomalies in the time-ways are caused by the Infinite Dragonflight.

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We know very few things about the Old gods afterall, so it is definitely possible. They are creatures outside the cicle. And what if the corruption of the bronze is a work of THE OTHER old god? We don't even know what his name is. Ry'uleh? Or something else?

The issue with saying that they are literally outside the cycle of life and death, based on the fact that there is fallout from when they die (which is true for many Demons as well), would mean that we would also have to include many other races to this "maybe they can't die" list.

[Errtu]

Really? And who's gonna execute me? I annihilated entire armies with my sword alone.

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A super strong man also can lift a limited amount... but when you have 100 men there is little they cant lift. Same with mages.

If we had a 100 khadgars we probably wouldn't be needed in the first place.

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He was cast into a deep sleep for 5 years after the fusion with Nerzhul. Convenient, of course, but still plausible. N'zoth, on the other hand, simply seems to vanish.

the fact that there is no new info doesn't mean they vanish. if i was them, i would want the silence before the storm, so everyone thinks there's nothing bad coming their way and, well, we had pandaria and now draenor that are more pressing matters, than something that doesn't actually manifest itself in any way (and a smart move too)

[Madruga]

the fact that there is no new info doesn't mean they vanish. if i was them, i would want the silence before the storm, so everyone thinks there's nothing bad coming their way and, well, we had pandaria and now draenor that are more pressing matters, than something that doesn't actually manifest itself in any way (and a smart move too)

Yes, some silence is indeed good, may get the opponent to lower his guard - which we did. We can indeed expect that N'zoth's attack, when he attacks, will hit hard.

However, imagine this... We got our armies severed in the Siege of Orgrimar. The most powerfull army in the world (the True Horde) was being attacked by the rest of the armies of the world. Why not attack when the True Horde and the Horde/Allaince were at each other throats? Both armies were weakened, and there was the presence of Y'shaarj. Maybe N'zoth could contact whatever is left of Y'shaarj's conscience, and we would have to deal with the power of 2 Old Gods!

Or even, N'zoth could attack NOW, when all of our forces are in Draenor. He would make quick work of Azeroth's weak defenses!

All of that makes me think the only plausible explanation is that N'zoth CAN'T attack now. He doesn't have enough troops, even considering the Naga are mostly unharmed from the aftermath of Vashijr. Probably N'zoth is in a state that, if he attacks now, he would probably fail.

[Errtu]

Which we know is untrue, because the races of Azeroth have defeated two Old Gods (C'thun and Yogg-saron in the second War of the Shifting Sands and Ulduar respectively), both of whom believed they had recovered enough to retake the world. They were both wrong and summarily defeated.



What evidence is there to substantiate this? He has failed at every turn -- the only pawn he really has left is Azshara. He has lost Ragnaros, Al'akir, and Deathwing because of the failure of the Cataclysm, and that isn't including the Faceless generals and others that were sent to aid Deathwing. He has realistically lost more firepower than we have.

It's not about evidence, no one can really have any evidence, just guesses based on some small snippets of information.

But as for the point provided - have you ever played chess ? it's a perfectly reasonable strategy to sacrifice your figures in order to get the enemy's king.

[DesoPL]

I guess, Metzen might no go kill Thrall even in WoD why? Because Thrall is like Captain Price in CoD, a bloody icon. Many players remember Thrall from WC3, where he is a warchief of the (true for me) horde, and Thrall demise would be not nice for fans i guess.

At this point i curious... What color skin Thrall and Aggra children could have? Since Thrall is green, while Aggra bronze. Huh...

Ok back to the topic.

I agree that N'Zoth could even now laid siege on Azeroth, while champions(Players) are in Draenor dealing with Iron Horde. But who said, if old god could not appear in WoD? Remember TBC Netherwing Ledge and Black Blood Of Draenor?

[Lolretadin]

It's not about evidence, no one can really have any evidence, just guesses based on some small snippets of information.

But as for the point provided - have you ever played chess ? it's a perfectly reasonable strategy to sacrifice your figures in order to get the enemy's king.

OK, if we're playing it like that, Archimonde didn't actually die, he let himself be banished to the nether and has been absorbing all of the latent magic there to become Sargeras 2.0. Sound like bullshit? Well, you can't prove me wrong, so I must obviously be right!

But really, saying things like "these losses are actually victories!" is inane when you have no evidence to prove it.
Extraordinarily claims require extraordinary evidence.
A claim without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

[RigidCannibal]

To be fair, the so-called "manipulation" of the Old Gods amounts to a bunch of failures and idiotic ideas. The best example of this is when they decided that summoning Sargeras to Azeroth, hoping that his presence would free them, would be a good idea, because they would try kill him afterwards, assuming themselves powerful, even though they had never really seen what a Titan with no regard for life can really do (the Titans who actually cared about Azeroth handed the Old Gods their behinds pretty easily, with their creations even being able to kill Y'shaarj). Before anyone quotes Krasus, keep in mind that his ramblings have been dismissed by Blizzard as hyperbole.

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I would think that the Titan's "ultimate" defense system for the Old Gods would be Algalon, who had the ability to send out a signal to request re-origination of Azeroth to remove the Old God infection completely.

The only reason the old gods have been unsuccessful so far is because those pesky mortal races have managed to stop them while they are still in a weakened state. Even if you think it was foolish of the Old Gods to want Sargeras to be summoned so the chains binding them would be released (it really wasn't, because five old gods versus one Titan, even an insane one, would likely win), Sargeras is gone, at least for now, seeing as Kil'jaedan is the current leader of the Burning Legion in the main universe.

Also, I wouldn't call a massive war that resulted in the demise of a Titan to be "pretty easy." Clearly, the Titans and Old Gods are at least somewhat evenly matched, seeing as they are the only known creatures to have slain an actual Titan.

[Rafoel]

We know very few things about the Old gods afterall, so it is definitely possible. They are creatures outside the cicle. And what if the corruption of the bronze is a work of THE OTHER old god? We don't even know what his name is. Ry'uleh? Or something else?

They cannot die not in the mans they are "immortal and indesctructible" but because they do not live in the first place (full quote: "they do not live, they do not die, they are outside the cycle") - ergo, are not alive in OUR, mortal meaning. On the other hand, from the Yogg Saron Puzzle Box:

Even death may die...

Meaning that everyting has an end, even Old Gods. Nothing is eternal.

[Aquamonkey]

Consider also the effects of an ancient, massive, sunken city being raised from the depths of the oceans. We could have another Cataclysm, with zones being reworked and revamped again, but this time with more water and tidal waves, than fire and lava. This would easily sidestep the whole "Nobody likes underwater zones" issue, because the city rising to the surface out of the water is the event that precipitates the expansion.

Blizzard is not going to do a Cata-style revamp of zones again. And raising something from the bottom of the ocean won't create a cataclysm. Gul'dan did it in the 2nd War and nothing happened.

We know very few things about the Old gods afterall, so it is definitely possible. They are creatures outside the cicle. And what if the corruption of the bronze is a work of THE OTHER old god? We don't even know what his name is. Ry'uleh? Or something else?

"Outside the cycle" was said by a fanatical follower of the Old gods. It can't be taken literally when it's been explicitly stated that many Old Gods have been killed, with Y'Shaarj being "very, very, very dead."

Not every Old God is still alive and plotting. The Titans actually did kill a lot, so this particular Old God is dead. And is safely dead. Not all of the Old Gods were entombed. (Source)

At the end of the Klaxxi questline, the mantid mentioned that at one point in time, they worshipped Y'shaarj, an old god. However, he was slain by the Titans and was split into "shadows of his former self". Is he, in some way, in relations with the Sha and will we see Y'shaarj in future content patches?
Y'shaarj breathed love and exhaled hate, inhaled peace and breathed violence... Plus, his name was y'SHAarj. It's pretty safe to connect the dots. :smileyhappy: But Y'shaarj itself is very, very, very dead. (Source)

[grexly75]

Well here is something very interesting, http://wow.joystiq.com/2014/05/04/kn...koa/#continued this little article talks about the Arakkoa and how they acknowledge and know of the the old gods and know of one unnamed old god.. It also goes on to say about how Anzu is supposedly tied to the Emerald Nightmare..

Looking at this article it really makes ya think there are a lot of possibilities..

[Lolretadin]

The only reason the old gods have been unsuccessful so far is because those pesky mortal races have managed to stop them while they are still in a weakened state.

Whether or not they are or aren't in a weakened state is an asinine distinction to make -- they have shown themselves to be arrogant and known to overestimate their influence/power (as seen with C'thun and Yogg-saron).

Even if you think it was foolish of the Old Gods to want Sargeras to be summoned so the chains binding them would be released (it really wasn't, because five old gods versus one Titan, even an insane one, would likely win)

Give me concrete proof that 5 Old Gods could defeat Sargeras. Sargeras was the most powerful member of the Pantheon, which are all known to be extremely powerful Titans in their own right, but none leave 1 was really combat-oriented; most of them were creators, not destroyers. Really, the ONLY evidence that people have to say that the Old Gods were, together, powerful, was the statements from Krasus who thought that the Old Gods would be able to drive Sargeras to madness and beg for death, which has been explicitly stated by Blizzard to just be hyperbole.

Also, I wouldn't call a massive war that resulted in the demise of a Titan to be "pretty easy." Clearly, the Titans and Old Gods are at least somewhat evenly matched, seeing as they are the only known creatures to have slain an actual Titan.

No, they really aren't. Before we get into why, it should be said that we never even confirmed if the Titan died, don't lie and say that the war resulted in the demise of a Titan, we don't know that. The story explicitly states that both a Titan and C'thun fell, that's all. Even then, that's a rather inane thing to point out, because you are then assuming that all Titans are relatively the same strength, when we know that is untrue. That aside, it really wasn't difficult for the Titans, seeing as the Mogu, Titan constructs, were capable of killing Y'shaarj. I wouldn't be surprised if we find out that The Prophecy of C'thun was not factually correct, seeing as it was a prophecy that was created by the Qiraj Prophet Sekeram, who is known to be an important religious figure to the intelligent Qiraj.

[Golden Yak]

Y'Shaarj's heart whispers to the players during the Siege encounter after being doused in the rejuvenating waters of the Vale... the whispers also makes mention of 'feeding' when the axe Xal'atoh, made from Y'Shaarj's power is used.

I almost wonder if Y'Shaarj might have been able to resurrect itself completely, if Garrosh hadn't been stopped - Garrosh planned to fuel his army with the heart's power, all of which would have been funneled back to the heart itself. Garrosh's transformation might only have been a prelude to a full rebirth of Y'Shaarj. That seems to have been halted now that Y'Shaarj's power is completely used up. So he was 'extremely dead'... but could still have come back to life with enough power. Maybe now he's extremely very super-dead.

The Old Gods might be in a Sauron-type situation - Sauron technically didn't and cannot die, but his power was utterly depleted and so thoroughly reduced that he's nothing now, not even a whisper on the breeze or a bad dream in the night. That's what it means for the Old Gods to be 'outside the cycle' or 'extremely dead' - they can't really die, but can be reduced, defeated, or have their bodies destroyed to the point where they're never going to be a threat to anything again.

[Aquamonkey]

I almost wonder if Y'Shaarj might have been able to resurrect itself completely, if Garrosh hadn't been stopped

The Klaxxi'va Paragons certainly thought Y'Shaarj would be fully revived, hence why they joined Garrosh.

[Golden Yak]

I also see some parallels between Garrosh's transformation using Y'Shaarj's remains and Cho'Gall's transformation using C'Thun's remains.

Wonder what's going on with Yogg-Saron's carcass up in Northrend...?

[Rumred]

Though he got the sweet consolation prize of taking out the Aspects, the Titans' ultimate defense system.

He did but in terms of the numbers he has to throw at us he took a hit in that department that's why i said he at least thinks long term so in the end it was a fair trade. If his forces failed at the very least he makes the aspects a none factor compared to what they once were. That doesn't change he will have to regroup and muster new forces.

[DesoPL]

Funny thing is, that after the Dragon Soul events, is mentioned that the N'Zoth forces is not destroyed, but damaged. So it might be recover and some day, another takes places after Zon'Ozz and Yor'Sahj.

Also funny is fact, that cenarion circle want keep in balance Firelands and don't allow to rise a new Firelord after Ragnaros fall. I wonder throught what's happend with Skywall, since no intrest is there much.

[Madruga]

I also see some parallels between Garrosh's transformation using Y'Shaarj's remains and Cho'Gall's transformation using C'Thun's remains.

Wonder what's going on with Yogg-Saron's carcass up in Northrend...?

Just wait, it is going to be a Yogg-Bolvar-Lich King! Rise of the Old-Lich-God!

Ugh, that actually gave me nauseas, sorry...

[Golden Yak]

Just wait, it is going to be a Yogg-Bolvar-Lich King! Rise of the Old-Lich-God!

Ugh, that actually gave me nauseas, sorry...

Y'know, speaking of Lich Kings, Arthas' body is still somewhere unknown, just lying around empty, in many ways the perfect vessel...

[AbalDarkwind]

Y'know, speaking of Lich Kings, Arthas' body is still somewhere unknown, just lying around empty, in many ways the perfect vessel...

I wouldn't be surprised to see either Arthas' dead body or Bolvar become corrupted by Yogg-Saron. I mean, ICC is made of pure saronite, and Yogg's visions definitely hinted that something was up between it and either Arthas, Bolvar, or both.