I'm starting to relate to nationalists (Friendly discussion, share your opinions)

[Invrlose]

Before I get started, note the University example is just one of many.

I just finished registering for university a few weeks ago and there is tonnes and tonnes of programs for immigrants, ethnic people, people who have just recently moved to Canada and are permanent residents (Therefore not foreign students) to get reduced education cost and government assistance.

I've been thinking lately, why do people who have just recently moved to Canada and hardly contributed a damn thing get so much assistance? Why does a middle class tax paying person like me get chit on, and literally anyone from a third world country who moves here gets completely catered to? I'm not saying they shouldn't be allowed here, I'm saying they should get the same damn treatment as me. I don't really make that much money right now since I got laid off from my mine job. It's not like I'm a rich ballin upper class white kid going to a pretentious private school. My tax money is being sent to some of these people who are basically sponsored by the government and competing against me in the education / business world.

I almost get this feeling that here in Canada we are made to believe we owe impoverished countries something. I do not agree with sending billions of dollars of foreign aid to countries that are rife with corruption and power concentration. It's not our job to sort out other country's problems. Taxes are paid to the canadian government in trust that they will use those funds to help Canadians by building roads and creating infrastructure. The purpose of taxes is not to bring over uneducated people from a poor country to compete with me in the business / education world.

There are even privately owned companies like Tim Hortons and Maple Leaf who have business deals with the Canadian government where the Canadian gov' will subsidize wages for temporary foreign workers, give companies like Tim Horton's and Maple Leaf tax breaks for employing these temporary foreign workers, supply TFW with government housing, and then these TFW take money out of the Canadian economy and send lots of it home to the phillipines. Effectively, companies like Tim Horton's and Maple Leaf are getting away with paying these workers less than minimum wage.

Why does it seem like people who were born in Canada, pay taxes, vote, etc. are being marginalized and the government is basically giving people from other countries free tax dollars and putting them in situations where they are competing with us? I have a feeling situations like this are what breed nationalism and even home-grown terrorism.

[taliey]

Why are foreigners always the first on the chopping block?

[Invrlose]

Why are foreigners always the first on the chopping block?

Because a lot of people are frustrated that their country is being flooded with people of a different background, culture, tradition, and values. And many of them don't give a shit about Canada. How does it make any sense that the Canadian government takes Canadian tax dollars, pays people who are not from Canada, have not contributed a single thing to Canada in their entire life, and then these people take money out of the Canadian economy and send a large portion of their money back home?

[taliey]

Because a lot of people are frustrated that their country is being flooded with people of a different background, culture, tradition, and values. And many of them don't give a shit about Canada. How does it make any sense that the Canadian government takes Canadian tax dollars, pays people who are not from Canada, have not contributed a single thing to Canada in their entire life, and then these people take money out of the Canadian economy and send a large portion of their money back home?

Of all the things that I've heard, biting the hand that feeds you takes the cake.

Also you mentioned that the people that the Canadian government are assisting are impoverished citizens from third world countries. So perhaps the money that they are earning here is also going to assist their families? And how are they not spending and contributing to the economy exactly? Living is expensive.

[Invrlose]

Also you mentioned that the people that the Canadian government are assisting are impoverished citizens from third world countries. So perhaps the money that they are earning here is also going to assist their families? And how are they not spending and contributing to the economy exactly? Living is expensive.

Why is it the Canadian taxpayer's job to support people in another country? The purpose of taxes is to support Canadians, not to be given freely to people in other countries. Living is expensive, but not when the government pays for your rent, pays for half of your wage and then you send the other half of your wage back home to another country where the money disappears forever to be spent in that country's economy.

If someone from Canada wants to send money to help an impoverished nation, they can do so. Nobody is stopping them. But taxes are public funds that you are forced to pay.

[Bathory]

Why is it the Canadian taxpayer's job to support people in another country? The purpose of taxes is to support Canadians, not to be given freely to people in other countries. .

No, taxes go to the government. The government DOES give money to other countries. So yeah, your tax dollars are meant for that whether you agree with it or not.

[taliey]

Why is it the Canadian taxpayer's job to support people in another country? The purpose of taxes is to support Canadians, not to be given freely to people in other countries. Living is expensive, but not when the government pays for your rent, pays for half of your wage and then you send the other half of your wage back home to another country where the money disappears forever to be spent in that country's economy.

Again, there's a reason for why they immigrate from third world countries to first world countries - a chance to obtain a better living. You conceded that they were from third world countries.

And Canadian tax payers supporting citizens of countries outside of Canada? I'm just as surprised as you are.

[Invrlose]

No, taxes go to the government. The government DOES give money to other countries. So yeah, your tax dollars are meant for that whether you agree with it or not.

Taxes were put in place to build and create things that would benefit the population that pays them. Instead of one person paying 10 million dollars to build a road and charge people, we all agreed as a society that maybe 10 million people could pay 1 dollar and then that way we can all share the road. That's the purpose of taxes. Not to be sent off to another country.

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Again, there's a reason for why they immigrate from third world countries to first world countries - a chance to obtain a better living. You conceded that they were from third world countries.

And Canadian tax payers supporting citizens of countries outside of Canada? I'm just as surprised as you are.

Why is it my job to take care of another country's problems? And why is it my job to subsidize their wage and living expenses so that they can compete against me?

[Polyxo]

Here's a little idea/thought process. It's not necessarily true, and I don't have any evidence to say it is this way, but consider the possibility here: Let's say that the Canadian government has looked at the way Canadians contribute culturally/economically per capita, and the way that immigrants do. Let's say that while the majority of immigrants do not do very well, enough of them do quite well, so that the mean of supporting/subsidizing masses of immigrants is a better investment for the country at large than supporting native-born Canadians. What should the government be doing in this case? Is the Canadian government's responsibility to native-born Canadians, regardless of performance, or is the Canadian government's responsibility to build the strongest country possible, regardless of their background?

[taliey]

Taxes were put in place to build and create things that would benefit the population that pays them. Instead of one person paying 10 million dollars to build a road and charge people, we all agreed as a society that maybe 10 million people could pay 1 dollar and then that way we can all share the road. That's the purpose of taxes. Not to be sent off to another country.

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Why is it my job to take care of another country's problems? And why is it my job to subsidize their wage and living expenses so that they can compete against me?

And the purpose of taxes is to further the society's interests through the funds that the taxpayers paid. That's the social contract between government and the citizens.

[Invrlose]

And the purpose of taxes is to further the society's interests through the funds that the taxpayers paid. That's the social contract between government and the citizens.

Yes. And how is it in the taxpayer's interest to subsidize a temporary foreign worker's wage and housing? How does that benefit me, as a tax payer? I pay taxes to the government to build roads for me, to build hospitals to take care of me, to protect me from danger, and increase my quality of life.

[taliey]

Yes. And how is it in the taxpayer's interest to subsidize a temporary foreign worker's wage and housing?

What's the point of foreign aid and student exchange programs? What's the point of having a naturalization process and a citizenship process for immigrants? They only serve to be competition for the real citizens of their country.

[Invrlose]

What's the point of foreign aid and student exchange programs? What's the point of having a naturalization process and a citizenship process for immigrants? They only serve to be competition for the real citizens of their country.

Thats.... Exactly what I'm saying? They're using my own tax dollars against me.

[taliey]

Thats.... Exactly what I'm saying? They're using my own tax dollars against me.

You're pretty much complaining about something on the off chance that something might threaten your interests in the future. Or present to be fair.

Better question, as I'm genuinely interested in your response is this: why do first world countries have relationships with third world countries? Why do first world countries help these third world countries?

[Captainn]

Taxes were put in place to build and create things that would benefit the population that pays them. Instead of one person paying 10 million dollars to build a road and charge people, we all agreed as a society that maybe 10 million people could pay 1 dollar and then that way we can all share the road. That's the purpose of taxes. Not to be sent off to another country.

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Why is it my job to take care of another country's problems? And why is it my job to subsidize their wage and living expenses so that they can compete against me?

Because after World War 2 the United States seems to have convinced people that it's better to prop up powerful, if not shitty governments that can at least keep things under control rather than see another Hitler.

At least your country isn't giving to Israel and Egypt like ours has been. :P

[Invrlose]

You're pretty much complaining about something on the off chance that something might threaten your interests in the future. Or present to be fair.

Better question, as I'm genuinely interested in your response is this: why do first world countries have relationships with third world countries? Why do first world countries help these third world countries?

In the future? No, it's happening right now. A temporary foreign worker can only work in Canada for 24 months. The canadian government pays half of these people's wages, they send the other half back home, and they get their housing subsidized too. You avoided my question. How does that benefit me or any tax payer?

You've also avoided the point I've made that if people want to be charitable, they can. But taxes are by Canadians for Canadians, they should not be used to basically undermine the people who are paying them.

[Crushima]

What's the point of foreign aid and student exchange programs? What's the point of having a naturalization process and a citizenship process for immigrants? They only serve to be competition for the real citizens of their country.

Indeed. It should be stopped asap. Let them stay in their mud huts where they belong.

[Dhurn]

Without immigration, population growth in much of the West is stagnant or negative. That leads to an aging tax base which is not being replenished by enough young workers to support social programs to take care of the larger amount of old folks. Immigration might look detrimental from a the narrow view of an individual, but it's actually very important. Government has good reason to support immigrants who are willing to work.

[taliey]

In the future? No, it's happening right now. A temporary foreign worker can only work in Canada for 24 months. The canadian government pays half of these people's wages, they send the other half back home, and they get their housing subsidized too. You avoided my question. How does that benefit me or any tax payer?

You've also avoided the point I've made that if people want to be charitable, they can. But taxes are by Canadians for Canadians, they should not be used to basically undermine the people who are paying them.

You didn't read my response. I added 'the present out of fairness' and consideration for your point. As for the immigrant getting their housing subsidized, working in Canada, temporarily, those are usually for goodwill with third world countries that first world countries want to establish relationships with.

Now let me accuse you of dodging my question - why do you think first world countries engage with third world countries? The third world countries have nothing to offer, and yet the first world countries keep engaging with them. That money spent engaging with third world countries harms the taxpayer, because that money could have been better spent on the taxpayer.

[Invrlose]

Without immigration, population growth in much of the West is stagnant or negative. That leads to an aging tax base which is not being replenished by enough young workers to support social programs to take care of the larger amount of old folks. Immigration might look detrimental from a the narrow view of an individual, but it's actually very important. Government has good reason to support immigrants who are willing to work.

I'm not talking just about immigration. What about temporary foreign workers? People who come to Canada for 24 months and never come back. Basically residents of another country who are given tax dollars to work low-skilled jobs and then never return to Canada again. I have no problem with immigrants who are willing to work, live in Canada, and create wealth but do they deserve special treatment over a Canadian citizen?

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You didn't read my response. I added 'the present out of fairness' and consideration for your point. As for the immigrant getting their housing subsidized, working in Canada, temporarily, those are usually for goodwill with third world countries that first world countries want to establish relationships with.

Now let me accuse you of dodging my question - why do you think first world countries engage with third world countries? The third world countries have nothing to offer, and yet the first world countries keep engaging with them. That money spent engaging with third world countries harms the taxpayer, because that money could have been better spent on the taxpayer.

Name an example, since your question is fairly broad. "Engaging" can mean anything.