Help me rate our Paladins

[Deleted]

Hello everyone,

i would like you to evaluate our guild members, look at logs included and try to post here what they are doing wrong or what should they improve about their raid performance.

warcraftlogs . com/reports/FkZAyXcnWbCRh3fg

Thanks ahead for your help

[xentropa]

Hello everyone,

i would like you to evaluate our guild members, look at logs included and try to post here what they are doing wrong or what should they improve about their raid performance.

warcraftlogs . com/reports/FkZAyXcnWbCRh3fg

Thanks ahead for your help

Basic analysis:

Gruul:

Hurdoslav
1. AW Usage: 3/3. Late on 2nd usage. 53 sec uptime out of potential 60.
2. STR Pot Usage: Only used 1.
3. ES Usage: Good (5/5)
4. EDS Usage: Missed 2 (17/19)
5. Wasted HoPo: 0
6. aCD on CS: 6.59 sec. This is sort of poor for only having 1 petrify. Should be closer to 4.9-5.2 on Gruul.

Rotation priority seems out of whack. Too few CS uses, proportionately too many Judgements and Exo's for not having 4p.



Tankladinka
1. AW Usage: 3/3. 2nd use was ~11 sec late. 3rd use was ~12 sec late. 74 sec uptime out of potential 90.
2. STR Pot Usage: Good.
3. ES Usage: 5/5. Was late on 3rd and 4th casts (4th especially). 47 ticks out of 50 potential.
4. EDS Usage: Missed 1 (12/13)
5. Wasted HoPo: 0
6. aCD on CS: 7.69 sec. Very high. Target ~4.9-5.2 sec. With 4 petrifies something in the realm of 5.4-5.7 is more reasonable though.


Got petrified 4 times which is unlucky. Rotation priority seems out of whack. Too few CS uses, proportionately too many Judgements and Exo's for not having 4p.

Mysthic
1. AW Usage: Good (3/3)
2. STR Pot Usage: 2/2. 2nd pot timing didn't make a lot of sense. Should have been sync'd with AW.
3. ES Usage: Good (5/5)
4. EDS Usage: Good (13/13)
5. Wasted HoPo: 0
6. aCD on CS: 6.02 sec. W/ estimated 2p compensation: 5.89. Not terrible but could use work, especially with only 1 petrify.

Rotation priority is better than the others but looks a little trigger happy on Exo. Increased CS usage would boost DPS a bit.

[Deleted]

Their dps is low. 25k dps on Kromog with 678 ilvl is bad when I was 676 I did 34k dps on Kromog which is not amazing but its okay. Back in Highmaul I used to do really bad dps too and I could never figure out what the problem was as my rotation was perfect. I noticed I had barely any Mastery gear and it was the root cause of my bad dps. Maybe that is their problem too? Get them to get BRF gear as it has TONS of Mastery. IF they already have BRF gear then they are simply bad players and should focus on learning the class properly or trying a new class. Thats all the advice I can give hope it helps.

[Ktperry]

Their dps is low. 25k dps on Kromog with 678 ilvl is bad when I was 676 I did 34k dps on Kromog which is not amazing but its okay. Back in Highmaul I used to do really bad dps too and I could never figure out what the problem was as my rotation was perfect. I noticed I had barely any Mastery gear and it was the root cause of my bad dps. Maybe that is their problem too? Get them to get BRF gear as it has TONS of Mastery. IF they already have BRF gear then they are simply bad players and should focus on learning the class properly or trying a new class. Thats all the advice I can give hope it helps.

Im sorry, but do you have logs to prove that?
Also you come here with shit attitude, when i had X iLvl i did Y DPS, they did alot less, so they suck.
You should've atleast opened their armories/logs to see the issues, like the poster above you did.
You're not helping, nor your post is constructive.

[ogloque]

25k is low...
warcraftlogs . com/reports/Cb1LhYmJDK4PGFkj#fight=39&type=damage-done

[andz]

compare with Mysthic at Gruul, he does quite all right, thats how often each attack should be used (plus minus a few casts)
The 2 other Rets have SERIOUS issues with thier rotation. Tell them to use Hekili or clcret or any other rotation helper. If you are a progress guild and thier DPS doesnt rise by 5k kick them.

[Deleted]

Their dps is low. 25k dps on Kromog with 678 ilvl is bad when I was 676 I did 34k dps on Kromog which is not amazing but its okay. Back in Highmaul I used to do really bad dps too and I could never figure out what the problem was as my rotation was perfect. I noticed I had barely any Mastery gear and it was the root cause of my bad dps. Maybe that is their problem too? Get them to get BRF gear as it has TONS of Mastery. IF they already have BRF gear then they are simply bad players and should focus on learning the class properly or trying a new class. Thats all the advice I can give hope it helps.

34.000 dps with 678 with "barely any" mastery gear? I have some serious doubts about the validity of your claim. Can you please provide some proof?

You also call them out for being bad players, yet 2 of them are doing quite ok.

[Deleted]

Rotation priority is better than the others but looks a little trigger happy on Exo. Increased CS usage would boost DPS a bit.

You are overegging this far too much. If you check out the logs of the top parsing rets on these fights, they'd all be failing badly by your arguments. With the 4-set, crusader strike has a much lower priority; it is simply higher priority than other HP generators in most cases.

[xentropa]

You are overegging this far too much. If you check out the logs of the top parsing rets on these fights, they'd all be failing badly by your arguments. With the 4-set, crusader strike has a much lower priority; it is simply higher priority than other HP generators in most cases.

I am simply looking at the logs that were supplied. Of the 3 palis there, none of them had the 4p and 1 of them had the 2p. In the absence of the 4p having a very high aCD on CS and/or too similar of cast counts between CS and Judgement on a low movement fight generally indicate wrong priority of HoPo generators.

[Astynax]

Their dps is low. 25k dps on Kromog with 678 ilvl is bad when I was 676 I did 34k dps on Kromog which is not amazing but its okay. Back in Highmaul I used to do really bad dps too and I could never figure out what the problem was as my rotation was perfect. I noticed I had barely any Mastery gear and it was the root cause of my bad dps. Maybe that is their problem too? Get them to get BRF gear as it has TONS of Mastery. IF they already have BRF gear then they are simply bad players and should focus on learning the class properly or trying a new class. Thats all the advice I can give hope it helps.

Straight DPS value vs lvl without looking at anything else isnt useful. Lots of players can get scumbag dps when they save all their CDs for the hands and do gimped single target on the boss. I could be at 685 lvl and do 20k dps if I wore tank and healing jewelry/trinkets. I could be using garbage HM gear at higher level vs 4 set using a few 665 pieces or 4 set pvp.

Raid comp matters too. With our comp I'd be lucky to get a second EDS in on darmac adds before they're all dead which would significantly reduce overall DPS vs some other raid who has ST heavy comp and can spam cleaves all fight. We're doing mythic brf now and I do 34k kromog at 684. If I were to spam AOEs and blow CDs any more we'd bust out of hands before hes done thundering blows = get people killed with how much AoE & cleave our group has.

[tyronian]

I don't meant to hijack the thread but, xentropa, or anyone who has thoughts, I'm curious how you might go about calculating what a good aCD on CS is on any given log where a pally does have the 4set. This is the position I'm in myself, and I've been guilty of not correctly prioritizing CS over J consistently in the past, so I'm wondering how I can check in on myself now that I'll be casting a ton more exo. Ty for any thoughts.

[SolaronTich]

The problem with looking at the effective CD for CS is that if they spec DP and/or use 2-set, their are plenty of times where you end up hitting nothing but finishers and HoW, especially during wings. While it reduces the eCD on CS, it doesn't necessarily mean they're prioritizing incorrectly. Kromog also has a few seconds of downtime as you wait to be picked up by your hand.

[xentropa]

I don't meant to hijack the thread but, xentropa, or anyone who has thoughts, I'm curious how you might go about calculating what a good aCD on CS is on any given log where a pally does have the 4set. This is the position I'm in myself, and I've been guilty of not correctly prioritizing CS over J consistently in the past, so I'm wondering how I can check in on myself now that I'll be casting a ton more exo. Ty for any thoughts.

This is something I have been working on... and have not found a single easy way to get to it, even approximately.

The first part I worked on is 2p compensation. This can be found exactly with a TON of work, or it can be approximated with significantly less work.
In warcraftlogs you can load the buff graphs for AW and Crusader's Fury. You can approximate the final 35% via time (although it's not going to perfectly represent the actual boss health). You basically count the # of CF's that did not fall during AW or during the final 35%. e.g. if the fight lasts 5 min there will be 3 sections of AW and you'll be looking at the other CF procs from 0:00 to 2:15. This is usually a reasonable number to count (CF HoW). The next imperfect approximation comes from haste. If you assume 0% haste, and there are 10 available CF HoW, this would eat 15 seconds worth of GCDs from the CS calcluation. If the player has 15% buffed haste, it would be 12.75 seconds worth of GCD's.
Let's say the person had an aCD on CS of 5.56 (54 uses in 300 seconds).
Using the 0% haste method would adjust the aCD to 5.28
Using the 15% haste method would adjust the aCD to 5.32
Seeing as how those results are fairly close together, either approximation would probably be okay. The real weakness I'm worried about here is the 35% boss health approximation by using time. If you time warp on the pull front loads damage but execute time also increases damage on the back end.

4p compensation is a lot trickier.
If you graph Blazing Contempt Buffs and Exo casts it's actually pretty clear which Exo uses did not have the BC buff. This is the first part to calculate how many GCD's were occupied that may have shifted down CS priority. e.g. if there were 25 Exo uses, 20 of which were with BC, you would do a similar calculation on GCD x 20 (30 sec at 1.5 sec GCD, 25.5 sec at 15% haste 1.275 GCD).

Another part is approximating the # of additional finishers via DP/DC procs and their GCD occupation. (# of DC procs + # of DP Procs - AW DC Procs - AW DP Procs) x 1.5 (or 1.275) = Proc occupied GCD time.

I finally got my 4p last night but don't have enough data to work from yet to really try to match the theoretical to the actual (nor am I playing it particularly well yet... averaging ~11 wasted HoPo per fight). I will see what I can do with number crunching after a few Gruul kills.

[Tokanowa]

are you guys trying any rotation help at all like clcret? i used to not use one myself but after i tried it out and got used to it with a proper 4pce string i upped my dps a ton

[Stiaar]

ilvl 678 dps 37k warcraftlogs . com/reports/BLg3AXK2ZMVqWD7C/#fight=2

[Stiaar]

25k is a seriously low. I got 3 Petrifying Slams with 678 gear and still did 37k dps. They just dont know how to retri properly, which is sad with that gear they have..

warcraftlogs . com/reports/BLg3AXK2ZMVqWD7C/#fight=2&type=damage-done

[BurningSkies2018]

25k is a seriously low. I got 3 Petrifying Slams with 678 gear and still did 37k dps. They just dont know how to retri properly, which is sad with that gear they have..

warcraftlogs . com/reports/BLg3AXK2ZMVqWD7C/#fight=2&type=damage-done

Yet on heroic you only managed 33k.

RNG can be unkind at times.

I did 36.5k on butcher at 673, because I had lucky procs.

If you can't at least be constructive, why are you even posting?

[Wrecktangle]

You are overegging this far too much. If you check out the logs of the top parsing rets on these fights, they'd all be failing badly by your arguments. With the 4-set, crusader strike has a much lower priority; it is simply higher priority than other HP generators in most cases.

I am simply looking at the logs that were supplied. Of the 3 palis there, none of them had the 4p and 1 of them had the 2p. In the absence of the 4p having a very high aCD on CS and/or too similar of cast counts between CS and Judgement on a low movement fight generally indicate wrong priority of HoPo generators.

Thete, while you're not wrong about 4pc you can't assume everyone has it, especially people coming in these threads looking for help. Even though I'm 10/10H, I JUST got my 4pc last night or so in a pug, because no conq tokens dropped for the past 2 weeks on either slot I could use to get 4pc.

It's like me, I never really would look at peoples seraphim logs, because I didn't take the time to really get to learn it so I don't have a lot of experience reading it or using it. Just like 4pc. I would avoid 4pc logs because I'm still learning how it plays.

Xentropa - keep up the good work; I was getting a little lonely in the fix my thread, but my new job actually has me working in AM instead of reading logs so I am glad someone picked up in my absence.

>.<

[Stiaar]

Yet on heroic you only managed 33k.

RNG can be unkind at times.

I did 36.5k on butcher at 673, because I had lucky procs.

If you can't at least be constructive, why are you even posting?

First of all that is a heroic kill. If I remember correctly I did some SW DP switches thus difference in dps (sometimes forgot to change clcret string haha).
Fair point for not being constructive. So, my advice is, download CLCret, figure out your rotation, done.

[BaP]

Great job people...just derail the thread so you can bicker about who did what and please don't help the OP!!!!