Let's Talk About Class Fantasy - Priests

[thesmall001]

In Legion, we're taking a strong look at how well individual specs meet up to the given fantasy of their intended design which is, perhaps, the most exciting feature for many long-time players. So I'm making a thread in each class forum to invite people to share their ideal visions for each Spec.

Try not to focus too much on balance-QQ unless it's somehow relevant to the fantasy (and no, "I always fantasized I'd be viable" doesn't count), instead, try to focus on whether you feel your spec meets up to the hype or whether it lacks (or has) a strong fantasy to begin with; are you happy with aspects such as cooldowns and abilities and how they represent those ideas? Finally, would you like to see the fantasy changed or modified in a world where drastic re-designs aren't off the table?

Are you happy with them switching the focus of Discipline to an Atonement DPS-Healing Hybrid? What do you feel will make that feel good and exciting as a play-style that, in the past, has been largely on auto-pilot? Holy is often lamented as the eternal underdog of the Healing specs, do you feel it meets up to the design of the supposed "quintessential pure healer class" and where, if anywhere, does Chakra fit into that? Shadow are intended to get a significant overhaul in Legion with it being likely Shadow Orbs are going away so what's the fantasy behind Shadow for you? Beyond many DoTs, what types of utility and cooldown do you feel is appropriate for the Vampire/Mindtwisting/Shadow muddle?

[Edlarel]

I'm fine with atonement hybridization. I've always enjoyed having the throughput to do both as Disc. I am curious, though, how they realign shadow dps without orbs.

[Feigr]

For me the Holy Priest fantasy is pretty much what I want and expect. However I have never liked Chakras, and I don't think that they fit the Holy Priest.
Priests have always been kind of generic because of how diverse the different Priests are lore-wise across the races. That's why we have a lot of somewhat generic spell names (we are the class with the heal spell called Heal and the resurrection spell called Resurrection etc). Chakras don't really fit into that in my opinion, it is a concept that is better suited for Monks due to its eastern buddhist/hindu flavor.

I do agree that we are the "quintessential pure healer class" and I really like that about Priests. The numbers right now might not be that impressive compared to Discipline Priests or Holy Paladin due to how broken absorbs are, but in terms of design and playstyle I would say that Holy Priests are what we are supposed to be (excluding Chakras).

When it comes to ideas for re-design it's hard to come up with something that is not just a gimmick. I do like the increased healing from all sources that Divine Hymn provides and I could see that mechanic being used more for Holy Priests. That would make us better in raids since we would indirectly contribute more healing without the need to just buff our output numbers, which would be great but not that interesting. Sure a lot of people might not think it fun to be bottom of meters, but as long as you and your raid leader knows what's going on behind the scenes that shouldn't be a problem.

---

For Shadow I would welcome the removal of shadow orbs. I have never been a fan of these kinds of tertiary resources. I also don't like that Devouring Plague is a disease, it doesn't fit thematically with the rest of Shadow's spells.
An overhaul of Shadow is something that feels like it is very much needed at this point, Blizzard seemed during WoD to not really be sure what they wanted to do with Shadow Priests, with the Clarity of Power talent giving us a secondary rotation and playstyle, something that would probably have been it's own complete spec if Shadow Priest was a class.
I want Shadow Priests to be more about DoTs and ailments of the mind (not devouring plagues) and I think that Mind Flay is kind of boring and could do with some sort of change-up. Apart from the Insanity talent, Mind Flay is just a filler that does nothing interesting.

These are just some quick thoughts on Holy and Shadow (I don't really play Discipline enough these days to have anything to say).

[CorpShephard]

Holy
Holy priests need more thematic identity.

My first instinct was that they should be more radiant. Radiating light that bathes the group in healing. That's sort of a neat idea! This is already covered by Holy Paladins though. Holy Radiance, several 'beacons' of light, effects that radiate off of a target like Light's Hammer and Light's Prism, or off of the Paladin himself with Light of Dawn. Positional healing and radiance motifs are already sort of covered by Paladins.

How do you give a "Jack of all Trades" healer like Holy identity beyond that? I find Holy pretty underwhelming right now. Obviously the power level is poor but the class fantasy is really... generic and lacking. There are themes I identify with all other healers:

• Druids are about rampant growth through HoTs, blooming heals and versatility through form. HoT masters.
• Shaman have surging heals. They have the tidal theme: high tide happens when health is lowest. Clutch healers. Water, rain, elemental purity. Strong fantasy.
• Mistweavers have a weaker fantasy. Their misty healing is odd, subtle and inscrutable but pervasive. Slow and steady with a couple of huge play making moves like Revival. Cool mechanics and at least a theme.
• Holy Paladin is about radiant light bathing the group from their beacons. They're also about reaching out and saving a life with things like Lay on Hands and other "Hands" skills.
• Discipline yells "shields up!" and "brace for impact!". Bubbles are cool. No one handles preventative care better.

Holy though... circle of healing is basically invisible. Light well is neat, but it feels tacked on. Renew, heal, all of these spells are very generic and have almost no interesting secondary effects.

The only thing that Holy has that's remotely unique is Prayer of Mending. I would encourage Blizzard to try to carve something out of a "Prayer" motif. Quiet, reactive prayers that gather in strength before their blessing is finally released. Building up power through worship that explodes and causes miracles. That'd be neat. A more interesting direction than the jack of all trades.


Discipline
I mostly play Discipline and I don't mind the idea of going back to a more offensive style of priest. I like getting my hands dirty with some attack. From a class fantasy point of view it weakens that "force field master" feeling you get now. It's very fun to slam down a Power Word: Sanctuary and have the raid group huddle within during Gorefiend. Ghosts are exploding left and right but your priest is holding her hands out and maintaining the shield! I love the "preventative care" that defines discipline where you look forward and try to predict where/when the damage will come. As a raid caller the role suits me quite nicely as I need to be thinking two steps ahead on how to guide the group to stay safe. While I call out "Incoming attack soon!", I can prepare the group for that damage with bubbles. Yet I also acknowledge the issues that this playstyle creates. I would love to see that style continue but limit it. Make that style only viable when Spirit Shell is available or somesuch? Hopefully the switch to a more offensive Discipline Priest will still allow for some clutch moves involving shields and bubbles.

Shadow
Shadow... it's sort of a mess. I dislike the direction that Clarity of Power went. As long as Affliction Warlocks exist side by side with Shadow Priests there will be an overlapping in "king of DoTs" theme. Haunt and other mechanics have really revolutionized Affliction. I don't know what direction to go to split the two apart but I am far more interested in a DoT based Shadow Priest than what Clarity of Power was.

So many aspects of Shadow have been left in the dust. Vampiric Touch. What's vampiric about this now? It's just a normal ass DoT now. Maybe that's what Shadow Priests should work torwards for fantasy. Sapping power. Leeching power. Darkness that swallows the light. Vampiric Embrace and Devouring Plague are somewhat like this. Vampiric should be more than just "has life steal" though.

What about a priest that bides their time in the darkness, growing in strength and power, laying down their DoTs and stealing the enemy's power and then tips over and uses spells like Mind Spike to "spike" that power back at them?

Either that or create a greater link with the "void". We've see a lot of Void stuff during WoD. Dark Stars. Shadowmoon clan using void power to be necromancers. Void lords in the Twisting Nether. Maybe hone in on some of that stuff. Shadowfiends come from the Twisting Nether during the Archimonde fight. Maybe there's some other void powers that can be tapped out there...?

[Blacklabel]

What I would love for holy priests is the theme of angels. We already have some spells with that theme but they have some restrictions.
Glyph of Angels should last longer or even be permanent for holy. Its also to small and should be in size of the wings from Guardian Spirit.
And the Spirit of Redemption has 2 amazing looks but I hope to never see that spell effect since I never hope to die. How cool would it be to have an option (Glyph) to have a permanent Spirit of Redemption form (or Val'Kyr form)

Or a holy version of the animation that Warlock T6 has.

Other option for wings would be a holy version of the "Blazing wings" toy, ofc also as a permanent option for holy priests.


Those perma wings would increase the HOLY feeling of the spec and its totally different from the holy feeling Paladin gives.

[thesmall001]

Yum. Great stuff. I think Blizzard have echoed sentiments expressed here that "ailments of the mind" and Shadow magic is more baked into the fantasy of Shadow than Plagues and Orbs. I'm curious, who likes the Auspicious Spirits talent in concept? How do people feel about Mind Flay as a filler? Thematically it's pretty great but does it feel potent enough to your rotation or should it be more prominent? How would you like to see Shadow Orbs replaced? Where should the damage come from as Shadow without forcing them into only being good on spell-cleave fights?

I've never much toyed with Holy since Wrath. Does anybody actually like Chakra? They've tried to make it more of a bonus in the past and they've tried making it more adaptable but I can't see that they've ever really succeeded. I once joked that Chakras were the reason Ghostcrawler resigned from Blizzard in disgrace having been unable to make them cool. (He played Holy. Scrub.) I think the idea of radiance is great for Holy but, as you stated, Paladins kind of have that market cornered (it's all that shiny, reflective plate they wear) so we can't really steal too much of that. What if you could activate the healing on your Echo of Light instantly with AoE "Light Bombs". That infringes a little bit on Druid's Genesis ability but in a way that feels unique to Priests.

Personally I always liked Atonement so I'm fine with things shifting that way for Disc but I hope they don't nerf their ability to pre-bubble too badly. It's still a core theme of Disc and honestly I thought they were going to go in a totally different direction to address the Absorption problem.

[Beej]

One thing that I think would be cool for Holy Priests (I main a pally but I used to play a priest) is a "holy form". Like mentioned earlier in this thread, I feel that chakras do not fit in with the theme of the priest. That is very eastern buddhist/hindu in flavor and not what I envision when I see a priest. When I think of priest I imagine divinity, calming, soothing selfless spiritual individuals that inspire those around them with their near presence, a class that grants comfort and serenity to those around them.

Holy priests to me should be all about bright holy lights and prayers. I feel like angelic wings should be a major part of the holy priest. Spells like guardian spirit or angel form when a priest dies should be more common in terms of graphics for the class. I personally think the spec should not have chakras per say, but perhaps two stances (not 3 like with chakra). Holy Form would be a stance that has no dps abilities. Its all about healing. The holy priest is the iconic healing class and as such they should have a spec that is dramatically focused on the role. They will still have holy dps abilities, but not usable in holy form. In Holy Form the priest grows angelic wings that stay present so long as in the form and they have a slight "glowing aura" similar to power infusion. Their healing spells while in Holy Form will be dramatically increased in potency while also allowing access to various healing spells that they cannot access when not in holy form.

When not in holy form they have access to DPS abilities like smite and what have you, but their healing is weaker and they don't get the cool angel form. Holy Form would be a form that is all about "saving and healing" as such it is calm in nature and does not allow the priest to DPS, that's how I view the class from an iconic standpoint.

Further, I hate the idea of using shadow abilities as a holy priest. Mind Sear, shadow word pain, not spells I feel like a holy priest would ever consider using. They should have holy versions of said spells. I also hate on the flip side, shadow priests using holy spells. I feel like as shadow you "sell your soul to the void" so to speak, where as holy you "offer your soul" to the light. Shadow priests should have their holy heals replaced with void heals, imo, dark unnatural shadowy heals that function the same way as the current holy ones do for the spec. Disc is the class that walks the balance between light and dark imo. Holy is one extreme, shadow is the other with disc being in the middle. Disc should be the class that uses both light and shadow magic and the reason its called discipline is because the priest has to maintain a strong level of control to not give in too much to one extreme or the other, but to remain balanced with both.

Thats my two cents on the class!

[Torch068]

For me, I think priests are unique in that their class fantasy isn't tied just to the concept of the class, but to the race.

Even in the in-game priests reflect the diversity, Anduin is the Disc priest, Tyrande's quality is devotion and loyalty, Velen has domain over prophecy and vision, Moira is the Holy priest.

And for me, absolutely part of the fantasy is being a Priestess of Elune.

[thesmall001]

For me, I think priests are unique in that their class fantasy isn't tied just to the concept of the class, but to the race.

Even in the in-game priests reflect the diversity, Anduin is the Disc priest, Tyrande's quality is devotion and loyalty, Velen has domain over prophecy and vision, Moira is the Holy priest.

And for me, absolutely part of the fantasy is being a Priestess of Elune.

I'd actually love for them to revisit the idea of Priest Racials in some form or another. Even if the abilities all functioned the same and they just went in and gave different icons and names to them. That's the sort of fantasy I love. But then that opens a whole can of worms. Different Paladin races. Different approaches to Shamanism.

Angelic Form is a good shout, actually. I think that'd be really interesting. It is silly that you only get to see such an iconic effect when you die... which is counter-intuitive!

[allanon3031]

What I would like to see for holy is a way to pop spirit of redemption whenever you want. Give it a 3 min cooldown, and if it's not on cooldown when you die, have it activate automatically. Maybe even have it toss out lightwell heals in addition to its normal effects since you can't move with it active.

[Nzete]

Chakra really doesn't suit a holy priest. The inflexibility of chakra and the part where mastery doesn't affect healing over time spells really keeps us from being really flexible and adaptable. A jack of all trades healer also becomes a lot more useful to a healing team if other healers have strong niches.

[Planeshaper]

Discipline

I wanted to start with Discipline Priests, because I wanted to talk about how their class fantasy evolved over the years. Originally, the Discipline class fantasy was that of the "Enlightened, Transcendent Monk." Those Monks in Scarlet Monastery? Discipline Priests. The Monks in Auchindoun? Discipline Priests. That's what the original direction was for the specialization's theme. Way before the game even released, they were a melee spec, using a staff like a martial artist.

Somewhere along the line, that was dropped for the Pandaria school of Monks to be a class of their own. So, does the theme of Discipline as a rigidly structured and ordered school of martial arts + the light still make sense for them? Does the name "Discipline" itself even still make sense for the spec?

Can we distill a fantasy for Discipline that is different enough from both Holy and from the themes that were given to the Monk class? If given an Inquisition-esque offensive theme, does that make them too much like Paladins? I think the area within which Discipline's theme can be carved out of is very narrow, with all of these other specializations butting in on their "territory."

I feel like Discipline could have a place with a class fantasy of a "Purifier." I know that Paladins have the ability "Exorcism" and they've always wanted Shockadins, but Disc is ripe for the Holy pseudo-DPS spec instead. I'd like to see the spec have the ability to remove more affliction types than Holy's ability to remove magic and disease. I'd like to see a Cauterize heal for them. I'd like to see them deal damage when they Dispel buffs from an opponent. Unlike a Ret Paladin, who is a Holy Warrior with a blade (or hammer), Disc Priests should be "bathing their enemies and allies in the Makers' Flame!" They should be wielding the Fire of Life, of Creation, with a literal emphasis on Fire.

And to that end, folded into the WoW lore, I think it would be good for a sect of Disc Priests to have favor with Alextrasza and the Red Dragonflight. That could be their WoW class fantasy. Blood Elves could use the Sunwell itself as part of their fantasy, Trolls could use a heretofore unknown Phoenix Loa (a Firebird of Life), Tauren could use the Sun, etc, etc.

But overall, since they probably won't have "Monks" as a class fantasy anymore, a "Holy Fire-wielding Purifier" is probably their best class fantasy.

Holy

When I think of Holy Priests, I think of Miracle Workers, or Patron Saints as a class fantasy. These are the people who create food for the hungry, rid the ill of their diseases, champion the poor, and cause actual, large-scale miracles (like saving a village from a natural disaster). I think Holy Priests could get mage tables as an ability, creating manna for their hungry and thirsty allies.

While a Discipline priest might be a kind of fire-and-brimstone pastor when engaging a congregation, a Holy priest would be the type of preacher that teaches humility and grace. I don't really mind the Chakra element of a Holy priest, as I disassociate it from its Real Life mythos within Hinduism. Instead, I simply consider it to be the Priest channeling a particular Divine Focus of their specific faith. But again, it requires a removal of the real world mythos of the term "Chakra." I do like the idea of Spirit of Redemption being a cooldown, rather than a death effect.

If Discipline Priests are the "Purifiers" to me, Holy Priests are the "Saviors" of the faith. While I see Paladins as "Martyrs," "Defenders," and "Holy Warriors." I have a Holy Paladin friend who always wants to stand in melee range during boss fights, and really hates raid mechanics that consider him a target with the ranged cluster. He wears plate armor, is his reasoning, he should be wading into the fray to heal people. Holy Priests should be rescuing people from the clutches of death, but Holy Paladins should be rushing into those clutches. The difference between a hospital doctor and a combat medic.

Shadow

Shadow's fantasy, to me, is something of a gothic subculture priest. They are the black of the black-and-white, the yin of the yin-and-yang.

Shadow Priests protect through the Void. After all, you can't hurt something that isn't there. They use shrouds as safeties, and bring "others to darkness" offensively. They demoralize, make insane, and otherwise induce feelings of hopelessness. I think that Shadow should mechanically have a stun effect -- or an incapacitate that does not break on their own dots (but will break on other damage). Their darkness can also be terrifying.

Of religious figures within the Churches, I would see Shadow Priests as those performing death rites, embalming and preparing the dead, and memorial services. As far as mechanics go, I would love for Shadow Priests to get the ability to grant some sort of boon or buff by using the corpses of the dead -- perhaps a eulogy for a fallen companion boosts the morale of allies. I think there is a "good" side to Shadow that doesn't get built on in-game, but could be. Something that doesn't have to be Vampiric in nature. At the same time, I do think vampirism fits the class fantasy for Shadow.

[Danner]

This is an excellent topic. And it ties in to something a lot of the other classes are dicussing right now - de-homogenization.

Disc
Disc's core thing from a mechanical point of view is obviously absorbs. But from a thematic point of view, I am honestly not sure what they are. They're not monks, because that's a separate class. I could mark them down as pain specialists I guess. But apart from flagging the entire spec as kinky followers of Marquis de Sade, I really do not know what this spec is all about - thematically. I suppose Blizzard faces the same problem.

I would LIKE the old vision of priests being mentalists apt at controlling the minds others to prevail here. Think Onyxia in her stormwind days. I think disc are the spec with the strongest willpower. That's their thematical thing. But I'm not sure it is a thing on its own. Because it would overlap a lot with shadow. Shadow using the domain of mental powers to control and harm others... while disc using the same kind of powers to deny or convince opponents.

I still do not know what to call this 'defensive mentalist' kit. But I would like to see Disc getting more of that. Mind Control in a way that doesn't suck. Barriers. Force Walls. Erasure of the priest from the minds of the opponents (Ie, Fade, only useful). Suggestions of who is important or not. I would like to see disc do more of this. It would make for a really interesting toolkit if it could develop in this direction!

Heck, I could even start to like Disc if it went down this route.

Holy
Holy's thing is obviously raw pure healing. Both from a mechanical and thematic point of view. However, in a game where every healer does this, that's not enough of a thing on its own.

Holy obviously need something else. I think Chakra is a travesty, both from a game mechanic and thematic point of view. It does not fit the spec (it COULD fit disc!), and it does help the spec to do our thing. The Holy Light and all that hallelujah is in the end just a colored flavour. I think the holypriest really only have one thing of their own: healing after death.

From a flavour point of view, this is an excellent thing! But from a game mechanic point of view, it's a travesty. Because it is tied to a game failure state. As the old joke go: "Join the priesthood! Become a holypriest! We are superior at dying! ... and the recruit went on to become a druid".

I think it can be salvaged. Make it triggerable. With a downside of course. But it is our special thing. It's allowed to situationally be a little bit OP.

[Eliot123]

For Holy, I always imagined them as a mix of prophets, monks (not the in-game class), great healers and spiritual leaders, with some addition of Zedd from Terry Goodkind's Sword of Truth series (Light magic, etc). Mechanics-wise Chakra does seem good on paper but I wish there was more to it, Holy has a very nice flow to it which gets blocked a bit by Chakras. I think addition of temporary Holy Form would be pretty neat, both as a healing increase and fantasy feel. I don't really care about numbers, I rerolled from Resto Shaman like 6 months ago and I'm having insane amounts of fun as Holy.

As for Shadow, I do wish Vampiric Touch had more, well, vampirism to it. Add some sort of a leech mechanism or something, rather than it just being a DoT.

[Deleted]

I never got to max level during the release of WoD, and just this week started playing again. And only after 2 days of playing I quickly realised why I stopped playing when WoD was released, and why I quickly changed to my warlock during the first couple of months of MoP. The reason why is because of how different the shadow priest play style is from what I used to enjoy.

My damage over time effects feel so useless. I feel like there is zero incentive to put up my dots on some targets other than getting procs. Back then it felt like you ruled the world if you got your full dots up on a PvP target or if you could have 3 or 4 VTs rolling in raids or dungeons. Regarding procs... Some times it feels like playing fire mage hoping for that instant pyroblast.
When I logged on my lvl 90 demonology warlock it felt so much better. Awesome interactive way of AoE'ing, a lot of very powerful cooldowns, pet micro managing, better mobility, a lot more interactive survivability and self healing cooldowns, and a lot more demanding play style.

My fantasy for shadow priests would be completely changing them back. I don't mind them being immobile, but give back the very powerful passive self healing and passive damage reduction capability. Make their damage stack up on the target. Shadow word pain up? Increased mind flay damage. Vampiric touch up? Powerful damage and mana regen. Make mind blast trigger shadow orbs, but don't let the whole play style revovle around shadow orbs. Bring back the shadow damage multiplier on a single target (similiar to the old vanilla/tbc one that stacked up to 15%).
Shadow priests also need back their cooldowns. Make a talent revolving around either making shadowfiend permanent or a big but cooldown dependent dude. I also loved having those powerful wings in Cataclysm. A whole new cooldown would be great as well, as well as having a damage reduction cd that doesn't CC the caster.

But most importantly, please remove the heavy proc dependency, and completely remove mind spike from the rotation.

If not then I am not going to play priest in the upcomming expansion. Sure healing ok as a priest (not super exciting), but I prefer being a DPS or tank.

[Annesh]

Shadow

I think a shadowpriest should be more "slippery" and hard to pin down. Something with very powerful escape options but is relatively frail if you can keep up. Spectral Guise actually adds to that fantasy really well, the ability to disappear into the shadows and pop back up somewhere else. Problem is, healer priests can get it too.

One insane concept I haven't seen anyone mention is:

The Shadowpriest should be stealthy. As in, actual stealth. Why the hell not? Magically wrap yourself in shadows and walk unseen/in the void. A stealthing caster, isn't that cool?

What we don't want is to step on the rogues' toes, obviously. Stealth is their thing, they should have the best kind. Their role/identity is already under attack this xpac, from demon hunters. (I personally don't have much sympathy for them since they've been bending me over for years now but hey whatever)

So why shouldn't we have some kind of actual strong stealth mechanic, weaker than rogues' version of course, but still meaningful nonetheless?

[Yumae]

I've played priest for several expansions now, and have always understood the thematic difference between holy and discipline to be a largely theological one. Discipline priests are those who understand divine power through their namesake–discipline. They understand that insight comes from rigorous study of the divine, cultivating their knowledge through having the discipline to do so. Consider, for example, how disc priests had an intellect boost in the old talent trees over holy. Just as disc priests understand the need for discipline within themselves, they also discipline others in order to help them learn and grow. This includes the ability to punish–to Smite, invoke Holy Fire, demand Penance, etc.–and thus it makes a lot of sense for disc to involve offensive and defensive abilities as part of that discipline. To return to themes, disc is the more cerebral priest, the teacher who criticizes as well as encourages.

Holy priests, on the other hand, are the more purely spiritual priest. Rather than understanding the divine through rigorous study and a focus on knowledge, holy priests rely on feelings, intuition, and spiritual or emotional connections. Consider how holy has serendipity–a word for a pleasant surprise, or a joyful, unexpected occurence. Rather than spending years in the library or on the podium as a disc priest would, holy discovers its truths through spiritual exploration and the freedom involved with that. As such, holy has no need for the punishment/offensive capabilities of a disc priest, and instead focuses completely on Renewing, restoring, uplifting, encouraging. As a teacher, a holy priest would be less demanding and critical than a disc priest, and instead encourage students to explore their own truths.

To return to theology, disc priests believe the divine is something encountered intellectually as well as emotionally/spiritually. The divine operates by rules/laws that must be understood and followed. One must have strong discipline to stay in accordance with these laws. Disc is faith, justice, knowledge.

Holy priests believe the divine is something beyond understanding, it is felt rather than known. Holy requires less rigid discernment and discipline, and more understanding. Holy is love, hope, feeling.

[Blacklabel]

How I would see Holy Priests

[bloodmoth13]

Hmmm i think that we need more distinction between our core specs, at the moment shadow simply doesnt belong, it feels randomly attached and wholly unnecessary.

This i believe is because its a complete outlier spec that has an opposite thematic to the other 2 specs, holy is holy based, discipline is holy based, shadow is shadow. it simply doesnt fit.

To address this i propose making discipline a hybrid shadow and light spec, so that both holy and shadow get even representation in the class rather than having one half feel like a random tack on.

This could also be used to distinguish holy from disc better too.

Holy would play as a pure holy spec, using smite holy fire etc as offensive moves, having no shadow spells

Disc would play as a hybrid shadow and holy spec, using holy spells to heal and shadow to attack, with its shadow toolkit less about death and sadistic themes but rather making the opponents feel guilt, remorse, shame and other negative emotions that would be considered dark and shadowy, which fits with the idea of 'atonement' pretty well. could still keep pennance. Also some thematics about casting light on your allies and allowing the shadow to fall on your enemies.

Shadow would be pure shadow dps obviously. I would like to see devouring plague removed, i dont think that it belongs on shadow priests, it belonged to forsaken only in my opinion. I would like to see shadow themed around shadows, opposition to light and psychological powers.

these changes would quickly make shadow priests not only feel like it belongs but is a required discipline to beccoming a fully fledged priest, rather than just having one extreme or the other.

I think that this incarnation of discipline would fill the role of witch doctor really well, just as a side note

Also, we already have 2 other holy pure healers, the theme is stretched way too far.

Though for holy paladins i would like to see them function better in melee, something like: every third auto attack and every crusader strike makes your next holy light instant, stacks up to 3 times. This wont make it mandatory, but it would make holy paladins a melee healer spec while holy can be ranged.

This along with a healer hybrid revamp where healers could opt in to fulfill a hybrid dps/healer role through talents for lulls in damage at the cost of a major cooldown. Through this healer specs could level decently without needing to swap specs, which will be important considering the nature of artifact weapons. The damage would be decent, considering that they will be trading off direct healing while dpsing, it should feel worth it, and this will reward good healing with the ability to help your team deal damage, meaning you wont waste time waiting for health bars to drop, maybe about 80% of the average damage dealers dps? with a limited number of abilities and no dps cooldowns i think that this would feel fair

Following suggestions:
Talent to buff holy priest offensive chakra up to hybrid standard
Talent to buff Resto shaman offensive damage
Talent to buff Resto Druids cat form ( i personally really liked leveling as resto in dungeons and doing this)
Talent to buff Holy paladins to shockadins (an old class favorite)
Innate ability for discipline to sacrifice the healing resources it gains through attonement for more damage (using discipline as the template)
Etc.

I think that this could make the healer role more attractive, Personally i HATED healing in WotLK with a passion as it was the single most boring gameplay i have experienced, attonement however, i felt was a blast.

[Juicebox]

The Shadowpriest should be stealthy. As in, actual stealth. Why the hell not? Magically wrap yourself in shadows and walk unseen/in the void. A stealthing caster, isn't that cool?

Wow, yes! Thematically shadowpriests would be perfect as a stealth class imo. We blend into the shadows!

And like others have said regarding shadow, old racials that went baseline spells needs to go completely. We need a unified theme. Right now we're vampiric, we cast plagues, we summon pets from the twisting nether and we control minds. It's just a clusterfuck that no longer makes sense.
Controlling minds is what it should be all about.