UK PM Theresa May to seek snap election.

[Kalis]

True I guess but if it's going to be a decade or two of being pushed to the sidelines and the selection process putting in more and more corbynites it's essentially necessary to get out of the party and form the own one, because unless something happens soon Labour are going to be in the worst position it's been in for generations. Even worse than under Foot. (Not sure if pun.)

They would not have the funding required to start a new party and the Lib Dems would have to accept becoming New Labour 2.0 if they joined them, which I am not too sure the Lib Dems would be keen on. There are practical reasons why you cannot just up and start afresh.

They are going to have to fight to wrestle control of the Labour Party from the Corbynistas, not sure it is a fight they will win unless Corbyn resigns on 9th June and is replaced by a centrist, but it is their best chance.

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From the Guardian Comments:

And now, the end is near
As Labour face the final curtain
And Jezz? Well one things clear
He voted Leave, of that I'm certain

He's lived, a Trotsky fool,
Presented shows, for men who kills gays.
And now, it's come to this
He did it May's way.

Mistakes? he's made a few,
Again and again, too many to mention
He did, things he didn't have to do
Now we all wish, he'd draw his pension

His plans-just 6th form dreams
His every step, voters stay a-way
And now, it's come to this
He did it May's way

Yes there were times, we all could see
The sort of "friends" he had to tea,
But through it all, when there was doubt,
His Momentum mates, would bail him out,
As Labour fall, Jezza stands tall
And does it May's way

Not loved, we've laughed and cried
Now Labour's had, their fill of losing
Diane, and Ken and John, no longer seem, so amusing,
They think, we'd vote for that?
They make Michael Foot - look like Atlee
And now, it's come to this,
He did it May's way

For he's his own man, and what has he got?
His chance of winning? Far less than nought
He'll say the things he truly feels
While the PLP are forced to kneel
The record shows
He snubbed the "Noes"
And did it May's way.

Yes…..it was Maaaaaaaaaaaay's way.

[ButterBeast]

Robert Peel (police), William Ewart Gladstone and Benjamin Disraeli (free education) were socialists, globalists or open borders advocates?

you'll figure out the point eventually.

[Kallisto]

Well the former Conservative, UKIP, now independent (and formerly my own MP before the 2010 boundary changes took effect) Carswell is completely stepping down and is going to vote conservative. Makes me wonder what the backward hicks in that area of Essex will be voting this time around.

[Kalis]

you'll figure out the point eventually.

The point being that you incorrectly think the police are a socialist idea? That is presuming you are not saying those are globalist or open borders policies.

None of those three who brought in the policies were socialists, two of them are Conservative Party Prime Ministers, the other a Liberal Party one.

[Deleted]

Honestly the centre left of the Labour party should just up and leave. Either by forming their own party or latching onto the Lib Dems. The far left won't go anywhere since even if Corbyn is ousted the members will just vote in someone else like him who will try to push too much too fast. While calling anyone slightly less to the left as Red Tory or Tory light.

This wouldn't matter so much if we had a PR system of voting. For one I doubt what we see as the conservatives and Labour would exist anywhere close to the current forms. The Conservatives in the past few elections have shown they know how to win by sacrificing their base just enough to get the centre ground voters. UKIP got 3rd overall in the national vote last time around but the conservatives still won in Parliament because conservatives played it smart. Sacrifice voters spread out the country to win voters in marginals to bring them over the necessary line for a majority. Which the Corbynistas refuse to do. They don't realise that they can be palatible to the centre ground while at the same time push for what they want, they just need to slow down the process and do it in tiny steps while leading from the centre.

They'd rather be board holding, marching around London in protest instead of being in government. That's the point of the opposition, to oppose the Government (logically) and ready themselves to be the next Government.

I'd argue that the UK is a majority center right and its very easy as a political party to be there and attract center left voters. It's impossible to do it at the extremes though. Which is why UKIP and Labour votes are diminishing. If the Corbinites don't get out of power and this trend continues the next opposition might just come from a large group of conservative MPs...

In the case of the left, they have basically given up getting into power(getting their way) via democratic means. I suppose that's the problem when they live in a bubble (academia/unions)

[Huehuecoyotl]

I'd argue that the UK is a majority center right and its very easy as a political party to be there and attract center left voters. It's impossible to do it at the extremes though. Which is why UKIP and Labour votes are diminishing. If the Corbinites don't get out of power and this trend continues the next opposition might just come from a large group of conservative MPs...

In the case of the left, they have basically given up getting into power(getting their way) via democratic means. I suppose that's the problem when they live in a bubble (academia/unions)

If the majority are centre right, then why do so many people agree with the policies that Corbyn is promoting, right up to the point they find out they are Labour policies?

Simple, because pretty much the entirety of the media in this country are either owned by the people that fund the Tory party, or are wildly biased in their favour like the BBC. And too many people allow themselves to be led by Daily Mail headlines rather than their own minds.

The policies that the Tories follow are actively damaging for the vast majority of people in this country. They make it less likely they will ever own a home, less likely that their children will get a decent education. Less likely that their jobs will be decent, safe, well paid ones. Less likely that they will continue to receive universal free healthcare. They will damage the environment with their fracking plans, and ensure that the gap between rich and poor gets ever wider. They attack the poor and disabled, while bringing in policies that put more money in the pockets of millionaires.

It is depressing to see people fall for this at election after election. I can only hope that the next generation can avoid the MSM sufficiently that they can make up their own minds, and ensure that these self-serving scumbags never get back in power again. But whether that happens before the Tories have done too much damage to be undone is questionable. If they succeed in destroying the NHS, it might not be possible to ever get it back.

[draykorinee]

My local mp said we can either have stability under may or chaos under Corbyn...sounds very much like he learnt fuck all from Cameron saying the same thing just 2 years ago.

Cameron has given us the most chaotic two years in a decade.

[caervek]

You brought them into this so you explain it.

I can't explain your post, that's why I asked you to explain what you meant lol. You quoted one of my posts then replied with something about Hitler, the BNP and time travel. That kinda needs elaborating on lol.

[Kallisto]

Well Corbyn just buried any remaining little chance he had to win the election. There's a reason you shouldn't let your shadow chancellor and number 2 to bring Mao's red book even if to mock the Tories and it's the same reason you don't use the word Comrades you make yourself look communist to the wider country, even if you're making a joke. Just don't do it.

Paul Nutter has shown that he's pushing UKIP to BNP light, just not as light as it was under Farage.

[Deleted]

I can't explain your post, that's why I asked you to explain what you meant lol. You quoted one of my posts then replied with something about Hitler, the BNP and time travel. That kinda needs elaborating on lol.

You made a silly comment about Hitler when discussing BNPs socialist policies. Obvious response is obvious.

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Well Corbyn just buried any remaining little chance he had to win the election. There's a reason you shouldn't let your shadow chancellor and number 2 to bring Mao's red book even if to mock the Tories and it's the same reason you don't use the word Comrades you make yourself look communist to the wider country, even if you're making a joke. Just don't do it.

Paul Nutter has shown that he's pushing UKIP to BNP light, just not as light as it was under Farage.

What's actually wrong with Corbyn? Isn't he doing what labour should be doing as the working mans party?

[Kallisto]

What's actually wrong with Corbyn? Isn't he doing what labour should be doing as the working mans party?

Being a working mans party is fine and all but the way he goes about it alienating the floating voters who flip between Labour and the other two parties. Sometimes you have to sacrifice your base to win right out. You need to come to the centre left if you're Labour. Not using communist words that scares off potential voters and can be used as ammunition against you. Especially when you have a history of linking yourself to groups that are Terrorist organizations.

[Deleted]

Being a working mans party is fine and all but the way he goes about it alienating the floating voters who flip between Labour and the other two parties. Sometimes you have to sacrifice your base to win right out. You need to come to the centre left if you're Labour. Not using communist words that scares off potential voters and can be used as ammunition against you. Especially when you have a history of linking yourself to groups that are Terrorist organizations.

I agree with this mostly, I find myself cringing at Corybn's strategy to win people over often, I'd prefer a Labour government in charge out of the options we have, but he constantly does things that I know, for example, my conservative grandparents will turn around and use against him instantly, it's infuriating seeing it happen time and time again, he seems incapable of perceiving himself and his actions the same way they do.

[Kalis]

Especially when you have a history of linking yourself to groups that are Terrorist organizations.

They are trying to spin those by saying he was working toward brokering a peace, but there is no evidence he ever tried to do that - no records of him talking to the other sides, no records of him offering to act as a go between, etc. Everything points to him siding with the likes of the IRA, Hamas and Hezbollah.

"Mr Corbyn also strongly opposed a precursor to the peace process, the Anglo-Irish Agreement. He said on two occasions that the agreement “strengthens rather than weakens the border between the six and the 26 counties, and those of us who wish to see a united Ireland oppose the agreement for that reason.”"

Then you have John McDonnell: "Mr McDonnell initially opposed the peace process. In January 1998, during the negotiations for a new power-sharing assembly which three months later became the Good Friday agreement, he told the IRA’s official newspaper, An Phoblacht: “An assembly is not what people have laid down their lives for over thirty years. We want peace, but the settlement must be just and the settlement must be for an agreed and united Ireland.”"

Diane Abbott: "In a 1984 interview with Labour and Ireland, she attacked the Unionist population of Northern Ireland as an “enclave of white supremacist ideology” comparable to white settlers in Zimbabwe."

Source.

How the hell are they going to sell that?

[Kallisto]

They are trying to spin those by saying he was working toward brokering a peace, but there is no evidence he ever tried to do that - no records of him talking to the other sides, no records of him offering to act as a go between, etc. Everything points to him siding with the likes of the IRA, Hamas and Hezbollah.

"Mr Corbyn also strongly opposed a precursor to the peace process, the Anglo-Irish Agreement. He said on two occasions that the agreement “strengthens rather than weakens the border between the six and the 26 counties, and those of us who wish to see a united Ireland oppose the agreement for that reason.”"

Then you have John McDonnell: "Mr McDonnell initially opposed the peace process. In January 1998, during the negotiations for a new power-sharing assembly which three months later became the Good Friday agreement, he told the IRA’s official newspaper, An Phoblacht: “An assembly is not what people have laid down their lives for over thirty years. We want peace, but the settlement must be just and the settlement must be for an agreed and united Ireland.”"

Diane Abbott: "In a 1984 interview with Labour and Ireland, she attacked the Unionist population of Northern Ireland as an “enclave of white supremacist ideology” comparable to white settlers in Zimbabwe."

Source.

How the hell are they going to sell that?

I'm not even sure how you can spin what Corbyn has done and said as a means to procure peace between either the Northern Ireland factions or his speeches about Hezbollah and Hamas. For one he's always been a back bencher which in many ways gave him no power or real influence until he became Labour leader a couple of years ago. He was never in any position to even think of bringing peace and his actions and words make him look like mix of Michael Foot and George Galloway.

I agree with this mostly, I find myself cringing at Corybn's strategy to win people over often, I'd prefer a Labour government in charge out of the options we have, but he constantly does things that I know, for example, my conservative grandparents will turn around and use against him instantly, it's infuriating seeing it happen time and time again, he seems incapable of perceiving himself and his actions the same way they do.

I think he doesn't want to be prime minister. He loves being the leader of the opposition so much he can point, accuse, bring up placards and play the eternal victim. His supporters have put themselves in such a position that anything even slightly to the right of Corbyn or even honest criticism of his words and actions make you at best a Blarite at worst a Tory as if somehow you have to be near communist to be a Labour voter.

I myself in the past 3 General elections since I turned 18 have voted Labour twice (2005 and 2015 would have done in 2001 too if I were 1 month older) and Lib Dem (2010) once. Always as a means to hopefully keep the conservative candidate out. Likely will vote one of the two again, depends on who has the better chance in ousting the Conservative MP here.

That said most of the Labour party members are making it so I feel less and less likely to want to vote for the party. When Labour loses and Corbyn resigns these people will likely double down and push for another one like him. The Labour MPs will once again realise how such a person is not electable to the general public meaning the party is done. The select committee will bring more of Corbyn's lot effectively killing the party as anything other than an opposition, alienating the electable portion of the party. At best we're entering the 80s again in which someone will be able to bring the party members back to sanity with a second Kinnock. At worse it's the end for the party and a new centre left party will be needed. One that can win the centre left, centrist and even some centre right voters in England and Wales, while at the same time bringing former Labour voters in Scotland who went to the SNP.

[Kalis]

I'm not even sure how you can spin what Corbyn has done and said as a means to procure peace between either the Northern Ireland factions or his speeches about Hezbollah and Hamas. For one he's always been a back bencher which in many ways gave him no power or real influence until he became Labour leader a couple of years ago. He was never in any position to even think of bringing peace and his actions and words make him look like mix of Michael Foot and George Galloway.

It is the current Corbyn-supporter line, that he is somehow responsible for the peace in Northern Ireland.

If Corbyn tries to use that excuse in public, then people will just ask him to prove he was a peace negotiator and he would only have the IRA as witnesses. Nobody is going to buy that, I would say that Corbyn is not stupid enough to try and use that excuse, but I am not convinced.


Current polling in Wales is...



Which translates to...



That would mean Labour not winning in Wales since 1918 and the first Tory majority there since before the Crimean War.

[draykorinee]

The worst tory government for a long time, goes to show how bad the opposition is.

[Huehuecoyotl]

I think he doesn't want to be prime minister. He loves being the leader of the opposition so much he can point, accuse, bring up placards and play the eternal victim. His supporters have put themselves in such a position that anything even slightly to the right of Corbyn or even honest criticism of his words and actions make you at best a Blarite at worst a Tory as if somehow you have to be near communist to be a Labour voter.

Corbyn isn't far left. He is a left of centre Social Democrat. Suggesting that he, or his supporters, are somehow communist seems to be the standard smear tactic of the moment. Feel free to point me towards the policies he is suggesting that could be described even slightly as communist.

However, saying that I agree with you that he probably doesn't want to be Prime Minister. I would go further than that; I don't believe he actually wants to be the leader of the Labour party. It is a position he has found himself in, which provides the opportunity to turn the Labour party back into a genuinely left of centre option that they used to represent. The party that gave us so much that we take for granted today; the NHS, education, social housing.

Corbyn is aware that this may be the last chance to fix a Labour party that was hijacked by a group of people that wanted to reposition it to be a fag-papers distance from the Tories. Slimy bastards like Mandelson, a corrupt self-serving little scab of a human being whose ideologies and world view shouldn't ever have been allowed in a million miles of the Labour party. But getting the party away from that group won't be quick or simple. It will require significant efforts, the rewriting of party rules to place power back in the hands of the membership, rather than the career politicians. The selection of a new group of MPs to become the next generation of Labour politicians. People who have the desire to server the majority of the population, rather than the elite few. People who believe that fixing the country starts with improving the lot of the many, rather than providing tax cuts for the few. People with morals and empathy, rather than being in it for themselves.

Do all of that and Corbyn will be only too happy to pass the mantle on to a more charismatic politician, I suspect. Someone who can bridge the link between Labour and the general population. Someone that even the MSM won't be able to undermine as the voters aren't put off from policies that they actually want to support. That is the thing that the Tories are genuinely terrified of. A Labour party back in the hands of the members, espousing policies that have wide general support, with a leader like Blair, but with a genuine Labour heart. A party that would be in a position to destroy a Tory party that shouldn't have the natural support of more than a tiny minority of the country.

The only hope the Tories have is to hope they can win this election by such an extent that they can force Corbyn out with the job half done. Then we will go back to having a choice between three (or actually two) centre to centre right parties, none of which really stand for the vast majority of people. And so the next generation of people will be disenfranchised, turned away from politics for the lack of decent representation. Which can only be a bad thing for democracy in this country.

[Deleted]

I don't know when the Left forgot that if you want to have any say, you have to actually win elections, but they really need to remember it.

[Kalis]

I don't know when the Left forgot that if you want to have any say, you have to actually win elections, but they really need to remember it.

Winning elections is for the bourgeois imperialist pigs and traitors to the proletariat.

[CostinR]

This is what's going to happen