Some Still Believe...

[Advent]

This:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...31431098&sid=1

/sigh


Shamefully, the server I am on is full of people who think the exact same way. Thoughts?

[Bananengurke]

nice avatar, however I'm not sure if it fits a wow forum, unless that is a picture if you yourself




about the link:
haaaaaahaaaahaaaaahaaaaaahaaa
I wish I could post "Don't feed the troll" but I know its not a troll Dx

[Advent]

nice avatar, however I'm not sure if it fits a wow forum, unless that is a picture if you yourself




about the link:
haaaaaahaaaahaaaaahaaaaaahaaa
I wish I could post "Don't feed the troll" but I know its not a troll Dx

@ my Avatar: No, that's Hitomi Tanaka. She's F*ck*ng hot as hell. I might change it, but I like looking at it.

And yeah....the OP of that thread was just...it was incredibly disappointing.

[Somerandomhobo]

nice avatar, however I'm not sure if it fits a wow forum, unless that is a picture if you yourself




about the link:
haaaaaahaaaahaaaaahaaaaaahaaa
I wish I could post "Don't feed the troll" but I know its not a troll Dx

Hot woman are always relevant

[Retrogames]

So, this thread is for mocking people who still believe that content should be accessible for the majority of paying customers, rather than the elite few who can dedicate several weeknights and all of their weekend evenings to a computer game?

Don't get me wrong, I love a good challenge, but people need to accept that the majority of subscribers have work and social obligations that trump phat lootz. I think the reason this group has been so vocal in regards to Ulduar is because Patch 3.1 contained very little else besides it. Apart from Tournament Dailies (yawn) and class changes, Ulduar was it. Everyone who took the time to level to 80, slowly geared up in Naxx PUGs, and was expecting to continue experiencing the new content they've been paying and playing for were quickly given a metaphorical middle finger.

I'm not going to try to settle the Casual vs. Hardcore debate, as there is no easy way to settle it and this is hardly the context in which I'd like to try. I do hope that Ulduar has convinced Blizzard not to release raid content without including meaningful (i.e. non-coma inducing) content for more casual players on the side. I'm of the opinion that no raid should launch without at least a new 5-man dungeon, maybe even two.

Now, I know it's cool to look down upon the average Joes who only a few hours to play each week, wagging an enormous epic e-peen mockingly in their general direction. But do try to remember that not everyone can afford to play quite as hard as the hardest of the hardcore poop-sockers, while everyone still pays the same subscription fee. While you may feel entitled to all the digital dick-wagging Ulduar's exclusivity represents, remember that the majority, as paying customers, are entitled to their money's worth in the form of new content.

In the end, World of Warcraft is a game, and you can't get upset at or mock people for treating it as such.

[Whitcher]

This thread simply validates the new system blizzard is implementing with the new raid in 3.2. Making the "normal" modes accessible to everyone while guilds focused on progression can do the raids on "heroic" and feed their epeens.

[Flielow]

So, this thread is for mocking people who still believe that content should be accessible for the majority of paying customers, rather than the elite few who can dedicate several weeknights and all of their weekend evenings to a computer game?

Don't get me wrong, I love a good challenge, but people need to accept that the majority of subscribers have work and social obligations that trump phat lootz. I think the reason this group has been so vocal in regards to Ulduar is because Patch 3.1 contained very little else besides it. Apart from Tournament Dailies (yawn) and class changes, Ulduar was it. Everyone who took the time to level to 80, slowly geared up in Naxx PUGs, and was expecting to continue experiencing the new content they've been paying and playing for were quickly given a metaphorical middle finger.

I'm not going to try to settle the Casual vs. Hardcore debate, as there is no easy way to settle it and this is hardly the context in which I'd like to try. I do hope that Ulduar has convinced Blizzard not to release raid content without including meaningful (i.e. non-coma inducing) content for more casual players on the side. I'm of the opinion that no raid should launch without at least a new 5-man dungeon, maybe even two.

Now, I know it's cool to look down upon the average Joes who only a few hours to play each week, wagging an enormous epic e-peen mockingly in their general direction. But do try to remember that not everyone can afford to play quite as hard as the hardest of the hardcore poop-sockers, while everyone still pays the same subscription fee. While you may feel entitled to all the digital dick-wagging Ulduar's exclusivity represents, remember that the majority, as paying customers, are entitled to their money's worth in the form of new content.

In the end, World of Warcraft is a game, and you can't get upset at or mock people for treating it as such.

Pure gold!!

;D

[AK_47]

Let them dream ^^

[TanAxys]

IMHO, the achilles heal of WoW is forcing players to PuG in the first place. When leveling, players spend at least 85% or more of their time soloing content. Then when they hit 80, everything comes to an abrupt halt. At L80, players are completely reliant on other people to do anything--heroics or raids. Having spent so much time alone, they have no real idea how to play their class in a group/raid environment. All of their gear comes from random world drops or quest rewards so there's no real decission or thought process about what "good" gear is.

Sites like MMO, EJs and a few select others are required reading to be a successful raider--and it's not like Blizz makes that kind of information available in game.

At 80 your choices are: do the same dailies every day, go fishing, get a group of 5 to 25 non-retards and try to do something fun, or log out and re-roll.

There's hunderds of guilds on every server, and players that don't know how to play can't differeniate between the good guild and the less good ones shall we say. On top of that, the "good" guilds seldom take in "n00bs" to teach them how to play. The other guilds are mostly the blind leading the blind.

What WoW really needs is challenging solo content with some kind of in game help that teaches players how to get better.. not just be good enough to get some green P.o.S. gear for basically no effort or skill. Do that, and the gap drastically closes bewteen PuGs and raiding guilds, and all of the talk about power gamers vs casuals goes on the back burner.

[Pheonixis]

So, this thread is for mocking people who still believe that content should be accessible for the majority of paying customers, rather than the elite few who can dedicate several weeknights and all of their weekend evenings to a computer game?

Don't get me wrong, I love a good challenge, but people need to accept that the majority of subscribers have work and social obligations that trump phat lootz. I think the reason this group has been so vocal in regards to Ulduar is because Patch 3.1 contained very little else besides it. Apart from Tournament Dailies (yawn) and class changes, Ulduar was it. Everyone who took the time to level to 80, slowly geared up in Naxx PUGs, and was expecting to continue experiencing the new content they've been paying and playing for were quickly given a metaphorical middle finger.

I'm not going to try to settle the Casual vs. Hardcore debate, as there is no easy way to settle it and this is hardly the context in which I'd like to try. I do hope that Ulduar has convinced Blizzard not to release raid content without including meaningful (i.e. non-coma inducing) content for more casual players on the side. I'm of the opinion that no raid should launch without at least a new 5-man dungeon, maybe even two.

Now, I know it's cool to look down upon the average Joes who only a few hours to play each week, wagging an enormous epic e-peen mockingly in their general direction. But do try to remember that not everyone can afford to play quite as hard as the hardest of the hardcore poop-sockers, while everyone still pays the same subscription fee. While you may feel entitled to all the digital dick-wagging Ulduar's exclusivity represents, remember that the majority, as paying customers, are entitled to their money's worth in the form of new content.

In the end, World of Warcraft is a game, and you can't get upset at or mock people for treating it as such.

Even casuals should be able to make guild runs.

[Aravar]

Even casuals should be able to make guild runs.

I don't have a problem with that. I have a problem when they don't know what they're doing.

[ManaMoon]

It makes me sad that the content is more for casuals now then ever before. We have one of the best guilds in the US on our server. I remember in Vanilla being like, holyhell hes geared. Now I'm just as geared as they are and I barely play / care. I dunno, the magic is gone.

[Iosif]

The problem is that many players simply do not know how to play... Bad players should not expect to be able to PuG ULD with other BAD players and be successful.

ULD is not hard, really it is a challenge for many players but in relation to previous content its allot easer then SSC/TK.

Blizzard made the huge mistake of making Naxx25 way way to easy, now people expect that all 25m raids should be "Puggable". Something that Blizzard admitting may have been a mistake. I think overall they should have Left 5-10 man raids for the Casual Guilds/PuG's with slightly better rewards for 10man Hard-Modes for the slightly better players to strive for. Then left the 25Man Raids for the Raiding guilds and 25M Hard Modes for the most elite of the Raiding guild offering levels of difficulty for players of all skill levels. Kind of the way they have left BG for the Casual PvP'er and Arenas more for the Hard-Core PvP'er.

Everyone would be much happier if Blizzard would draw lines and stick to them instead of moving the line all over the place and never taking a firm stand on ANYTHING.

[BlackZero]

The problem is that many players simply do not know how to play... Bad players should not expect to be able to PuG ULD with other BAD players and be successful.

ULD is not hard, really it is a challenge for many players but in relation to previous content its allot easer then SSC/TK.

Blizzard made the huge mistake of making Naxx25 way way to easy, now people expect that all 25m raids should be "Puggable". Something that Blizzard admitting may have been a mistake. I think overall they should have Left 5-10 man raids for the Casual Guilds/PuG's with slightly better rewards for 10man Hard-Modes for the slightly better players to strive for. Then left the 25Man Raids for the Raiding guilds and 25M Hard Modes for the most elite of the Raiding guild offering levels of difficulty for players of all skill levels. Kind of the way they have left BG for the Casual PvP'er and Arenas more for the Hard-Core PvP'er.

Everyone would be much happier if Blizzard would draw lines and stick to them instead of moving the line all over the place and never taking a firm stand on ANYTHING.

These are my thoughts exactly. Honestly ULD really is not that hard. I lead a guild 3 nights a week for only 4 hours and we are on Yogg. People need to understand that if you don't take the time to learn your class your not going to get anything fresh content clear. Casual or Hardcore, you should know what you doing.

[kaleck]

Even when we all pay the same we cant expect to get the same results, we r not all equal.
Compare this to a gym membership where all pay a monthly fee, u cant expect to get in the same shape as a person going everyday, if u only go once twice a month for 20 min, put in the time if u want results.

[SBS]

So, this thread is for mocking people who still believe that content should be accessible for the majority of paying customers, rather than the elite few who can dedicate several weeknights and all of their weekend evenings to a computer game?

Don't get me wrong, I love a good challenge, but people need to accept that the majority of subscribers have work and social obligations that trump phat lootz. I think the reason this group has been so vocal in regards to Ulduar is because Patch 3.1 contained very little else besides it. Apart from Tournament Dailies (yawn) and class changes, Ulduar was it. Everyone who took the time to level to 80, slowly geared up in Naxx PUGs, and was expecting to continue experiencing the new content they've been paying and playing for were quickly given a metaphorical middle finger.

I'm not going to try to settle the Casual vs. Hardcore debate, as there is no easy way to settle it and this is hardly the context in which I'd like to try. I do hope that Ulduar has convinced Blizzard not to release raid content without including meaningful (i.e. non-coma inducing) content for more casual players on the side. I'm of the opinion that no raid should launch without at least a new 5-man dungeon, maybe even two.

Now, I know it's cool to look down upon the average Joes who only a few hours to play each week, wagging an enormous epic e-peen mockingly in their general direction. But do try to remember that not everyone can afford to play quite as hard as the hardest of the hardcore poop-sockers, while everyone still pays the same subscription fee. While you may feel entitled to all the digital dick-wagging Ulduar's exclusivity represents, remember that the majority, as paying customers, are entitled to their money's worth in the form of new content.

In the end, World of Warcraft is a game, and you can't get upset at or mock people for treating it as such.

Of course it's a game, but the time investement needed to clear ulduar 25 is not that high. My guild has a maximum of 2 raid days a week for 25 man raiding (one of the days being sunday afternoon/evening) and we managed to kill yogg within a reasonable time frame. Due to not attempting hard modes in the summer, we have cut the amount of raiding days down to _1_ where we clear ulduar 25. We have never had more than 2 raiding days for 25-man a week and that is something people working 5 days a week and having other commitments (as most in the guild have) can do without problems.

There is a difference between not giving a shit and being bad at the game and using little time to play. People have used that half hour that is needed to read up on their class, people bring consumables and they know the tacitcs. This isn't a huge time investement, it's all about using the time spent effectively.

As many has said before me: Casual != bad

[Advent]

The thread wasn't to mock anyone about their playstyle. The title says half of my statement, I suppose I should finish it. "Some still believe that Ulduar is too hard?"

Ulduar is NOT as hard as some people seem to believe. Frankly, I believe it was much better when it was first released, before the nerfs to the normal mode. How many people did we see flood the forums saying they loved the difficulty? Does anyone even remember how difficult Mimiron's normal mode was? The Mimiron where mistakes caused wipes and everyone was responsible for themselves?

I think it all boils down to personal responsibility in raids. If no one is ready and willing to come prepared for difficult mechanics, then yes, Ulduar will be hard. And that shouldn't be toned down simply because random PuG A wasn't prepared for something that required more than two brain cells. If Ulduar was PuG-friendly, what logical, meaningful point would there be for guilds to exist?

I don't believe that casuals are bad. Some/most are actually quite good and I find myself rather sad that they can't play more with me. But the fact of the matter is, they can't, and it doesn't necessarily make them any worse players than us. The only "Casuals" that are bad are the ones who can play their class, but choose not to attempt to use them to the fullest potential. The bad casuals are the lazy ones who want things handed to them. That, and the ones who play for an hour to three hours a day and feel they're 'elitist' and 'geared' because of the heroic emblem loot that blizzard seems so keen on handing them so easily.

At some point challenge needs to be equal to reward. And as we draw closer to 3.2 I find that the challenge of heroics simply doesn't meet the rewards.

How many more people will we have to sit with in, for example, an OS25 PuG who are consistently hit by flame walls? Those people with tunnel vision who's sole thought processes only include 1,1,3,4,1,1.

[Tigercat]

So, this thread is for mocking people who still believe that content should be accessible for the majority of paying customers, rather than the elite few who can dedicate several weeknights and all of their weekend evenings to a computer game?

Don't get me wrong, I love a good challenge, but people need to accept that the majority of subscribers have work and social obligations that trump phat lootz. I think the reason this group has been so vocal in regards to Ulduar is because Patch 3.1 contained very little else besides it. Apart from Tournament Dailies (yawn) and class changes, Ulduar was it. Everyone who took the time to level to 80, slowly geared up in Naxx PUGs, and was expecting to continue experiencing the new content they've been paying and playing for were quickly given a metaphorical middle finger.

I'm not going to try to settle the Casual vs. Hardcore debate, as there is no easy way to settle it and this is hardly the context in which I'd like to try. I do hope that Ulduar has convinced Blizzard not to release raid content without including meaningful (i.e. non-coma inducing) content for more casual players on the side. I'm of the opinion that no raid should launch without at least a new 5-man dungeon, maybe even two.

Now, I know it's cool to look down upon the average Joes who only a few hours to play each week, wagging an enormous epic e-peen mockingly in their general direction. But do try to remember that not everyone can afford to play quite as hard as the hardest of the hardcore poop-sockers, while everyone still pays the same subscription fee. While you may feel entitled to all the digital dick-wagging Ulduar's exclusivity represents, remember that the majority, as paying customers, are entitled to their money's worth in the form of new content.

In the end, World of Warcraft is a game, and you can't get upset at or mock people for treating it as such.

Ulduar is not hard unless you want it to be. Ulduar without hardmodes does not take long unless you are a terrible player, time investment has nothing to do with it.

If you're not skilled enough to be able to take on 10man easymode Ulduar and accomplish something with just, say, 4 hours a week then the problem is that you're bad.

[Izenhart]

Well...Believing something to be difficult is purely a subjective thought, it's not that there is something EASY for everyone and HARD for other, some of them probably always wiped in there and then they believe is hard, let them believe too.

It's true, anyways, that an error of someone in Ulduar bosses encounters is way more dangerous than an error that might have occurred in malygos/sarth/naxxramas encounters, so basically, having 5 retards in a 25 man raid can make you wipe endlessly.

And this is only for normal modes, I think is pretty much obvious that Hardmodes, are somewhat to be considered HARD, aren't they? (although the one in the link isn't talking about HM's).

[Advent]

Ulduar is not hard unless you want it to be. Ulduar without hardmodes does not take long unless you are a terrible player, time investment has nothing to do with it.

And now I shall officially state that I ...am a terrible player.

Even so...Ulduar isn't hard. Tigercat is right on the money.