Healbot Hate

[Fenixdown]

And you know this, how?

Two ways.

One, I ask. I know, asking questions is a hard thing to do nowadays.

Two, you can't tell me that a person that is as bad as most of the HB users I have been grouped with has ever had experience healing before. When I say experience, I don't mean healing ZF or your daily heroic. That's about as much experience as I can claim to have tanking on my level 65 prot paladin.

I leveled as holy. In any group I went into, I was healing. Most of your standard hybrids level as DPS because it's easier. Therefore, they go into groups generally as DPS as well. Then when they hit 80, they go "okay I want to heal". Never have done so in their entire leveling process. So it's a totally brand new experience to them and they have a steeper learning curve.

Also, note I said "generally". That is to state it is a normal consistency, not that it is an absolute. I did not say "all healers that use HB have never healed". Call it a stereotype, if you will.

If you feel better doing so, you can replace the word "people" with "noob". However, I was trying to be civil.

Though frankly, if you had bothered to read the entire post, you would have seen that each point tied in to the others.

I will say, most good HB users that I have come across are actually holy pallies. The other healing specs, however, tend to fall under all of my previous categories.

[Fenixdown]

But those few people that can use Healbot to it's fullest limit shouldn't be flamed at. And I know I have been once, but I don't see me healing differently then other Holy Paladins using Grid...It makes me so sad so much...I don't wanna change a stupid addon just to please others. I already tried that 'Oh, you'll heal much better' Sure, weeks of training, no improvement. I'm sorry but not gonna bother with it.

Also, I am not in disagreement with this statement. I don't flame good healers for using HB. I flame bad ones for it. However, this is the new WoW where every elitist thinks that everyone has to play the same way he does.

Also, I do not flame good healers for clicking (and I know a few of those, as well). If you are a good healer you should stick with the playstyle you know because you are good at it.

That being said, bad healers with HB only have it as a crutch and use it poorly on top of the fact. I don't hate the mod, I hate people that don't know what they're doing with it.

[blahism]

Fenix and Blahism are perfect examples of what I said earlier..

Fenix makes some massive and in my experience very wrong generalisations about heal bot users. You will tend to find Grid+Clique users have an air of elitism about them.. just my own personal Generalisation thrown in there for good measure.

Blahism obviously has not used heal bot himself or at least not recently. If he had then he would know that pretty much everything he says grid can do that makes it amazing you con actually configure in heal bot as well. For example I off spec tank and use my heal bot for seeing who pulls aggro and quickly taunting off them as well as hand pf protections, freedoms all sorts.. these things are not the exclusive domain of Grid!!!

Me personally i think both are the same in that, its an add on and as long as you knwo what your doing both can give you what you need. I know Excellent healers who use both types as well as shit ones that use both.

The stigma i think comes with healbot being easier to pick up and in some peoples minds that means its not as good as the one you need to spend a month tweaking to every single encounter that ever exists.

and for the record I did give Grid+clique a try and after spending a week with it i went back to heal bot, in fact the only one I have ever consdiered leaving healbot for is Vuhdo.. which is also very good.

I used healbot for 2 years and gave the biggest reason why i ditch it, it completely failed in hardmodes. Even the latest healbot where they finally added raid icon support

Healbot doesn't work for me on hardmodes.. its way to cpu intensive. Healbot on 25 man hardmode twin valkyrs dies a horrible death and causes my phenom II 955 overclocked to 3.9ghz to die a horrible death with 7-9 fps.. the very same PC and setup running grid handles the fight at 25-33 fps.. obviously all the eye candy in healbot and UI interractions take up more CPU cycles than grid does and that translates into less heals.

On that fight i have 10-15 targets to rejuv all the time and if healbot doesn't keep up, we die. Perhaps if you're a pally spamming your heals it may not be that bad watching a single target.


btw, love you're generalizations and the fact you didn't read my posts that hinted to my previous experiences

I'm willing to bet that top guilds pushing progression probably require grid ui.. its just good for everyone and light weight enough that it doesn't get in the way - not just cpu wise of impacting performance but UI wise in screen real-estate. Its usefull for any utility class which includes everyone these days.

Healbot was good to me for heroics and naxx.. but i grew out of it for reasons stated, and yes, healbot is sort of a "Freshman" mod - great to get your feet wet but pretty lacking when you push progression. It has improved greatly over the years but will proibably never out grow its "bot" roots perhaps a name change would help.

[Raëlle]

Also, I am not in disagreement with this statement. I don't flame good healers for using HB. I flame bad ones for it. However, this is the new WoW where every elitist thinks that everyone has to play the same way he does.

Also, I do not flame good healers for clicking (and I know a few of those, as well). If you are a good healer you should stick with the playstyle you know because you are good at it.

That being said, bad healers with HB only have it as a crutch and use it poorly on top of the fact. I don't hate the mod, I hate people that don't know what they're doing with it.

I agree with you on that hun.
@ Blahism I think it depends what your assigments are, which class you are. Though, like I explained it is possible to setup Healbot as Grid.
While doing Hard Mode Val'kyr for example I heal the raid more then my tanks, because it's a risky fight on the soakers. My fellow Holy Paladin is also healing raid up and tank with it. Healbot is strong enough for Hard Modes, but...only if you set it up right.

[DaGhostDS]

its way to cpu intensive.

I thought the same about grid+clique+the million other addon that you need when i tried it..

obviously all the eye candy in healbot and UI interractions take up more CPU cycles than grid does and that translates into less heals.

Configuration are there for something

[kungfumonkey]

@ Firecrest... look what you started.. ok ok.. maybe i helped a little to turn this into YET ANOTHER grid v's healbot thread

@ Blahism... its actually quite nice to see a grid user who is not agressivly defensive.. to be honest the only really common theme I tend to see that distinguishes healbot and grid users is Grid users tend to be FAR more defensive about there add on than healbot users.. nice to meet one who isnt.

[Fenixdown]

Fenix and Blahism are perfect examples of what I said earlier..

Fenix makes some massive and in my experience very wrong generalisations about heal bot users. You will tend to find Grid+Clique users have an air of elitism about them.. just my own personal Generalisation thrown in there for good measure.

I actually use neither Clique or Grid, but I will agree that many who do have that aura about them.

My opinion was based completely off of personal experience and nothing more. Speaking from the perspective of what is likely a person who "gkicks HB users", my examples are likely what leads to their bias.

I have no personal bias against the mod. I have a personal bias against the people that cannot use it properly. From my own exxperiences, that number is far higher than the number of those that do.

It's actually funny because I had this same discussion with a holy pally friend of mine. She's a very solid healer and she uses HB, and if I were to handpick my healers for a raid she would be on my list.

Apologies if it came off in a different tone, that was not my intent. I was simply stating to the OP why a GM who is "anti-Healbot" would likely be so. I may not like using the mod, but I do not think it is a tool to be steered clear of if it is in the right hands. Much the same as any mod, really.

-Note, if you are curious I simply use X-perl, keybinds, and my mouse.

[scism]

I was going to go on a long rant about some things in here, but some work has come up so i'll be brief:

1) Just because you only do 10 man normal modes does not make you casual / a scrub (its not been explicitely stated here, but insinuated heavily in many posts)
2) Healbot is very easy to use out of the box, whereas grid + clique takes a lot of setting up to do - this is probably why you find no bad players using g+c but many using healbot
3) As a holy priest using healbot, i can have every spell i every need using left click, right click, ctrl and shift modifiers and keybinding `-5 and R. The only time i've missed a heal was due to RL things (flatmates coming in room, phone call etc) not due to not being able to hit the spell

Now i can't argue on the 25-man hardmodes front, and perhaps it is true that heabot is too intensive / lacks customising needed. Perhaps the guild referred to is right to say no healbot if they are purely looking for the absolute creme-de-la-creme of players - but there aren't that many.

On my mage, if i wanted to significantly improve my game i could spend hours setting up power auras to show exactly when trinkets / effects proc and line up all my CD's for maximum dps. I could probably increase my 10 man dps from 6K to 7-8K, but if we are getting the boss down, it doesnt matter - for hardmodes, sure it does, but back to my first point, not doing hardmodes does not make you a scrub.

[Ducon]

I used healbot for 2 years and gave the biggest reason why i ditch it, it completely failed in hardmodes. Even the latest healbot where they finally added raid icon support

Healbot doesn't work for me on hardmodes.. its way to cpu intensive. Healbot on 25 man hardmode twin valkyrs dies a horrible death and causes my phenom II 955 overclocked to 3.9ghz to die a horrible death with 7-9 fps.. the very same PC and setup running grid handles the fight at 25-33 fps.. obviously all the eye candy in healbot and UI interractions take up more CPU cycles than grid does and that translates into less heals.

On that fight i have 10-15 targets to rejuv all the time and if healbot doesn't keep up, we die. Perhaps if you're a pally spamming your heals it may not be that bad watching a single target.


btw, love you're generalizations and the fact you didn't read my posts that hinted to my previous experiences

I'm willing to bet that top guilds pushing progression probably require grid ui.. its just good for everyone and light weight enough that it doesn't get in the way - not just cpu wise of impacting performance but UI wise in screen real-estate. Its usefull for any utility class which includes everyone these days.

Healbot was good to me for heroics and naxx.. but i grew out of it for reasons stated, and yes, healbot is sort of a "Freshman" mod - great to get your feet wet but pretty lacking when you push progression. It has improved greatly over the years but will proibably never out grow its "bot" roots perhaps a name change would help.

Healbot alone is definitely not your problem killing your comp. Maybe youre using too many addons?

[blahism]

Healbot alone is definitely not your problem killing your comp. Maybe youre using too many addons?

Healbot was the lone module i switched out.. Whent from healbot to grid+clique.

Again, anyone running healbot here a resto druid doing hardmodes? healbot didn't fail for me until then.. if you're not doing hardmodes then you're not running into the circumstances i had

[blahism]

@ Firecrest... look what you started.. ok ok.. maybe i helped a little to turn this into YET ANOTHER grid v's healbot thread

@ Blahism... its actually quite nice to see a grid user who is not agressivly defensive.. to be honest the only really common theme I tend to see that distinguishes healbot and grid users is Grid users tend to be FAR more defensive about there add on than healbot users.. nice to meet one who isnt.

I would never kick anyone or call anyone who runs with healbot a newb or deny their app. I believe our primary tank healer/paly healer still likes healbot.

For me though, i had a hell of a time in a particular situation where healbot really failed me. Switching to grid+clique fixed it and thats the advice i share. I posted about this finding a few weeks ago as well asking if anyone else had similar issues but everyone who chimed in didn't do hardmodes so they couldn't possibly understand the amount of work i'm trying to shove down hb's throat lol

[kungfumonkey]

@ Fenix - Damn it.. why did you have to go and be so nice and understanding.. now i feel bad

can I call for a quick group hug before things get nasty... lol

/target all
/hug

[Harmacy]

Man, I just went to go get some popcorn, to sit back an enjoy a nice flame war during the server resets, and what happened?

You guys kissed and made up.

LAME

[Bigbluedruid]

Healbot was the lone module i switched out.. Whent from healbot to grid+clique.

Again, anyone running healbot here a resto druid doing hardmodes? healbot didn't fail for me until then.. if you're not doing hardmodes then you're not running into the circumstances i had

I heal hardmodes all the times as a resto druid and I love healbot. It helps keep track of who has hots rolling on them and allows use of plenty of keybinds and o shit buttons. If you are only healing a tank, like a holy palli, then healbot wouldn't help much but if you are responsible for keeping the entire raid up, it helps a lot. Using a good addon makes you a better player, not a bad one.

[bigfoot1291]

There's so much fail in this thread I can't even begin to start to argue with it all.

In short, if you think healbot makes someone bad, you're fucking retarded.

[aminidab]

dispelling a couple myths:

healbot can set up to 18 spells with a 3 button mouse, 27 with a 5 button mouse.

It can be used as a raidframe with all buffs and dispels for non-healing classes as well.

I personally use it for my pally (healing and tanking) my priest (dps and healing) my druid (feral tanking and dps) and my DK (tanking and dps).

It is fully customizable and I have yet to find anything that grid can do that it can't.

for my pally when healing it tracks (with timers) my beacon, sacred shield, all incoming heals (even other healers) HoT timers and icons for myself and other healers. buffs and debuffs. I have binds for ALL my spells (a good pally doesnt just cast two spells). hand of salvation, hand of freedom, hand of protection, holy light, flash of light, beacon of light, sacred shield, DI, LoH, Cleanse (although I do still use decursive, even though i dont have to) and all greater blessings (although I still use pallypower, again even though i dont have to). It tracks aggro as well.

when tanking on my pally it allows me to taunt off of people without changing targets so i can keep my attention on the boss.

you can bind any skill you use on other players in it.

for my priest and druid I again have ALL my healing spells bound into it and I'm well known and respected on my server for being very good at what i do.

Any guild that limits the use of addons is only gimping thier players.

Healbot not only has all the functionality of grid + Clique +whatever other addons you tie into it to make it work how you want it to but it does it all in one addon. Neither healbot nor Grid+ is a better choice for any reason other than thats what your comfertable using.

Anyone that is against healbot or thinks it's inferior to grid+ simply doesnt understand healbot, the same as anyone that thinks that grid+ is inferior to healbot simply doesnt understand grid+.

someone that knows healbot can not only get the same functionality as grid+ but can also configure it to look exactly the same, I gaurantee I can make my healbot look and act EXACTLY like your grid setup with this one addon.

The only drawback to healbot are that it encourage clicking (same as grid+clique) as a healer this generally isnt a problem in PVE, and it serves the same purpose as grid for a DPS mostly as a neat and clean raidframe that can be configured to take up very little real estate on your screen and still give you all the info you could possibly want. but like any other addon it has to be set up properly to work how you want it to.

[Googolplex]

However, I was reading a guild's application page today and it said "Anyone found running Healbot or similar addons will be removed from the guild without warning."

Just a clear sign that you should not join the guild. I use grid+mouseover, but healbot can do the same pretty much.

[blahism]

I heal hardmodes all the times as a resto druid and I love healbot. It helps keep track of who has hots rolling on them and allows use of plenty of keybinds and o shit buttons. If you are only healing a tank, like a holy palli, then healbot wouldn't help much but if you are responsible for keeping the entire raid up, it helps a lot. Using a good addon makes you a better player, not a bad one.

so does grid+clique..

i never mentioned healbot makes a bad player, infact i said the opposite. Just gave resaons why i made the switch to grid after years of healbot

[Belajas]

There's so much fail in this thread I can't even begin to start to argue with it all.

In short, if you think healbot makes someone bad, you're fucking retarded.

I think the general point around would be healbot or anykind of such addons combos can make bad healers possibly even worse :P

edit: and OP, why dont you ask Chronalis straight then why they have such rule around, its the guild he/shes in anyway...

[Raiss]

Healbot doesn't make you bad. The real problem is: real bad healers normaly use it. When people are just too lazy to make (or copy) their own macros and a good raid frame, they normaly just download Healbot. So, by logic, if most healers that use Healbot are bad (or just beginners, newbies), you will most likely want to avoid players that use this add-on. This can be unfair, I'm sure, but people are afraid of the unknown, a healer stop must be a trustable spot, and you will hardly want to give it to a player that is using one of the most notorious addon avaiable for a healer.

Its the same thing with Gearscore. It can be a good add-on if you pc is to laged to alt+tab everytime you want to check a pug. Armory and wow-heroes are too heavy, I understand. But, as a guild leader, when someone whispers me saying "I have xxxx GS", I won't recruit him, he might be a good player, but the fact he won't think I will armory him, talk to old guildleaders and ask questions about the raid content really annoys me. Any guild leader that cares about raw GS doesn't know anything about the game. Still, is one of the most download add-on on curse.com. Actually, if anyone in your guild is using this add-on, he is lagging everyone. When we first started raiding TOGC (and lag was a HUGE issue), i had to ban gearscore, not only for raiders, but to everyone that was online.

TL;DR: It isn't the add-On's fault, its because bad people use it.


edit: sorry about grammar, long time without studying