Rules all random PuGs should (try) to follow

[Kallixenia]

Given that there's been a lot of people running Heroics now that the Dungeon Finder system has been implemented, I figured I'd post these (somewhat) common sense rules to follow in PuGs.

These rules have been culled from a massive list of suggestions/basic ideas/etc., mostly from talking to people both in and out of Heroics.

1.) If you are not the tank, you don't pull! Even if you're wearing plate, or have bear form, if you're there as DPS, your job is to kill what the tank pulls, not to make the pull. The tank is the tank, and only the tank pulls. DKs, that also means NO DEATH GRIPPING!

2.) Be responsible for your actions! If the Tank dies, it's the Healer's fault. If the Healer dies, it's the Tank's fault. If DPS dies, it's their own damn fault for either over-aggroing, pulling, or standing in something they shouldn't have been.

• That notwithstanding, if DPS dies to anything that is out of their control, but is within the Healer's ability to control, it is the Healer's fault.

3.) Be realistic and fair about loot! No, Blizz's exclusionary system is not perfect, so fork it over if you won on greed because the Boomkin couldn't roll need on the cloth item.

• Also, nothing should be needed unless agreed upon beforehand (H CoS timed run drake, Skadi's mount), or it's an actual gear upgrade.
• Frozen Orbs don't count as upgrades, and just because your server rolls need on them, does not mean everyone else's servers do.

4.) Be aware of your party's capabilities! Tanks should not move faster than your healers can keep up. If they're at 75% mana, pull. If they're under 30%, stop and make them drink.

• DPS does not count, they can mana on the fly and suck it up.
• NO ONE should move faster than the tank, or assume that the tank is always ready to pick up your "oh shit I pulled haha gogogo" messes.

5.) Make sure you're capable!

• Tanks: 29-30k minimum unbuffed HP, 535 DEF minimum (540 is for raids), and make sure your "OH SHIT" buttons are where you can get at them.
• DPS: If you're not capable of doing at least 900 DPS, go run regulars until you get the gear. If you're in all iLv200 gear or better and you can't break 1.2k, find someone who can and get advice, because you're doing something wrong.
• Healers: I got nothing. Someone post some minimum healer requirements, I'll edit this back later.

6.) Know your role! The DF system tells you what you've been pulled for, so if you queue for Tank/DPS, or Heals/DPS, etc, it'll tell you what your role is. Don't queue for Tank/DPS and bitch when you're the only tank-capable class in the group. Yes, the queue for DPS sucks. Get over it.

7.) DON'T BE A DICK. I understand that the tank may not be as fast as you like, or some random DPS isn't doing as much damage as your TOGC/ICC geared toon(s), but try and remember that these are HEROICS. You may be here to badge farm, but others may be here to get geared.

8.) The 3 fastest queues in the game are Tanks & Healers to get into an instance, and the queue to replace a DPS. DPS should remember that they have an even bigger reason to behave, as you can be vote-kicked and replaced in seconds.


This list of rules is by no means complete, so fire away with your CCs, comments, QQs or suggestions.

All trolls will be filed in my personal box of people to point and laugh at.

(edited because I forgot typing 8 ) without the space makes a 8))

[ewhenn]

30K for heroics?

Back when wrath dropped I tanked them with 20K.

[Kallixenia]

30K for heroics?

Back when wrath dropped I tanked them with 20K.

Not ToC or the new ICC Heroics, you didn't.

[ThatMageOmen]

1) If you are not the tank, you don't pull! Even if you're wearing plate, or have bear form, if you're there as DPS, your job is to kill what the tank pulls, not to make the pull. The tank is the tank, and only the tank pulls. DKs, that also means NO DEATH GRIPPING!

I tank on my DK alt, I have around 40k unbuffed and the amount of times ive seen people pulling and saying "but you have a big hp your can pick up easy" is ridiculous. If only everybody could follow this rule ><.

Also, if you're a rogue in full i258 and 30k HP it doesn't make you a tank. So putting tricks of the trade on a tank and using Fan of Knives in a pack of mobs isn't acceptable. People who do that in my groups always get vote kicked since I roll with my own healer + ele sham.

[Phenomina]

That's a pretty reasonable assessment.

Healer's should usually have at least 15K mana as well :P

[Silverthorn]

I have to agree with some points exept the dps requirements you put up >.<

1.2k? Wtf I pull that on my 75 hunter in greenies and on my 72 mage and pretty much any other 70+ char I got single target.

Make it 3k and your talking.

[Phenomina]

I have to agree with some points exept the dps requirements you put up >.<

1.2k? Wtf I pull that on my 75 hunter in greenies and on my 72 mage and pretty much any other 70+ char I got single target.

Make it 3k and your talking.

Some people use heroics to gear up.

3K isn't common among freshly dinged 80's

[Kreth]

I have to agree with some points exept the dps requirements you put up >.<

1.2k? Wtf I pull that on my 75 hunter in greenies and on my 72 mage and pretty much any other 70+ char I got single target.

Make it 3k and your talking.

Screenshot requested of you pulling 3k with zero gear from heroics.

[BaddyMcBad]

Also, nothing should be needed unless agreed upon beforehand (H CoS timed run drake, Skadi's mount), or it's an actual gear upgrade.
Frozen Orbs don't count as upgrades, and just because your server rolls need on them, does not mean everyone else's servers do.

I'm sorry but this part is stupid.
Need means just that, you NEED the item.

[evan_s]

Given that there's been a lot of people running Heroics now that the Dungeon Finder system has been implemented, I figured I'd post these (somewhat) common sense rules to follow in PuGs.

These rules have been culled from a massive list of suggestions/basic ideas/etc., mostly from talking to people both in and out of Heroics.

1.) If you are not the tank, you don't pull! Even if you're wearing plate, or have bear form, if you're there as DPS, your job is to kill what the tank pulls, not to make the pull. The tank is the tank, and only the tank pulls. DKs, that also means NO DEATH GRIPPING!

Death grip is a useful tool when used properly even if the DK is a dps class. Loose mobs or casters that just aren't with the reset of the group are obvious examples.

2.) Be responsible for your actions! If the Tank dies, it's the Healer's fault. If the Healer dies, it's the Tank's fault. If DPS dies, it's their own damn fault for either over-aggroing, pulling, or standing in something they shouldn't have been.

• That notwithstanding, if DPS dies to anything that is out of their control, but is within the Healer's ability to control, it is the Healer's fault.

3.) Be realistic and fair about loot! No, Blizz's exclusionary system is not perfect, so fork it over if you won on greed because the Boomkin couldn't roll need on the cloth item.

• Also, nothing should be needed unless agreed upon beforehand (H CoS timed run drake, Skadi's mount), or it's an actual gear upgrade.
• Frozen Orbs don't count as upgrades, and just because your server rolls need on them, does not mean everyone else's servers do.

Everyone needing these is ultimately the best option for this situation. Yes it seems kinda odd because people don't really need them but if everyone needs no one can gain an unfair advantage over the othesr. If everyone is suppose to greed then all someone has to do is wait until everyone else greeds and then need to automatically win. I'm not saying this because my server has been one that has generally needed in the past but because it just makes sense especially with the random dungeons allowing cross server groups. Greed is really only a safe option when you don't care if someone else accidentally or otherwise selects need and you don't get a shot at it, e.g. blue or green trash drops.

4.) Be aware of your party's capabilities! Tanks should not move faster than your healers can keep up. If they're at 75% mana, pull. If they're under 30%, stop and make them drink.

• DPS does not count, they can mana on the fly and suck it up.
• NO ONE should move faster than the tank, or assume that the tank is always ready to pick up your "oh shit I pulled haha gogogo" messes.

5.) Make sure you're capable!

• Tanks: 29-30k minimum unbuffed HP, 535 DEF minimum (540 is for raids), and make sure your "OH SHIT" buttons are where you can get at them.

30k is nice but it's definitely possible to do the original heroics at much lower than that especially since you are bound to have 1 or 2 other people who outgear the instance.

• DPS: If you're not capable of doing at least 900 DPS, go run regulars until you get the gear. If you're in all iLv200 gear or better and you can't break 1.2k, find someone who can and get advice, because you're doing something wrong.
• Healers: I got nothing. Someone post some minimum healer requirements, I'll edit this back later.

6.) Know your role! The DF system tells you what you've been pulled for, so if you queue for Tank/DPS, or Heals/DPS, etc, it'll tell you what your role is. Don't queue for Tank/DPS and bitch when you're the only tank-capable class in the group. Yes, the queue for DPS sucks. Get over it.

7.) DON'T BE A DICK. I understand that the tank may not be as fast as you like, or some random DPS isn't doing as much damage as your TOGC/ICC geared toon(s), but try and remember that these are HEROICS. You may be here to badge farm, but others may be here to get geared.

8.) The 3 fastest queues in the game are Tanks & Healers to get into an instance, and the queue to replace a DPS. DPS should remember that they have an even bigger reason to behave, as you can be vote-kicked and replaced in seconds.


This list of rules is by no means complete, so fire away with your CCs, comments, QQs or suggestions.

All trolls will be filed in my personal box of people to point and laugh at.

(edited because I forgot typing 8 ) without the space makes a 8))

[Tremelizzer]

Tanks: 29-30k minimum unbuffed HP

DON'T BE A DICK

Couldn't have said it better. Seriously? 29k unbuffed for heroics without doing any heroic is impossible. My pre-3.3 geared paladin (gametime expired on day of patch's release) has a few pieces of ilvl 226 emblem of conquest loot, no stam trinkets except for JC only figurine and 2x JC stamina gems. And I have only 30.5k unbuffed. With that much gear that isn't attainable only by doing normal instances/leveling still that "low". F**k it. Damn I tanked VH heroic with 24k unbuffed without a single problem!

Tank with 24k is definitely capable if healer is not braindead. And it applies to pre 3.1 raids as well. Well maybe not Malygos but other two. And before you make false assumptions I'm not speaking about new instances (ToC, FoS, PoS & HoR).

[Stevegasm]

30K for heroics?

Back when wrath dropped I tanked them with 20K.

Not ToC or the new ICC Heroics, you didn't.

I think that goes without saying. When Wrath dropped those instances didn't exist yet. I myself tanked heroics with about 17k health and starting at about 480 defense just fine. No epics, just greens, and blues. They were by no means the speed runs we're seeing right now. And there was still some group skill required (such as DPS kicking caster mobs and such). I then stepped into Naxx a few days later with about 22k health unbuffed, and once again, no glaring issues. My DK had about 27.5k HP unbuffed when I would MT Malygos, and KT. At one point on KT tanking all four of the bugs with KT.

Granted, players in my guild are skilled at the game, and are experienced Vanilla 5 man content where CC, stun, and interrupt tactics were necessary. So I suppose your high expectations for a tank in heroics might actually be plausible, as I swear, when I DPS, I'm the only one tearing apart casters, and stunning mobs that run to the (retarded) DPS who is not focusing the tanks target. Everybody just runs with the AOE fest until things die. It's not really all that fun compared to what it once was.

[Taen]

You think 900 DPS and 30k health are comparable requirements?

[Kikazz]

i agree totally was running an instance last night warrior pulled by charging and bs'ing me and my healer mate let him die but everyone else live and we made him walk simple do your job not everyone elses.

[Kuniku]

having been tanking a bit recently (after just coming back to game since ulduar release) i'd also like to add to the dont pull if your not the tank point - unless you're AOEing a trash pack down, single target the tanks target if its not marked or whatever.

my tankadin is sitting at a nice mix of various level heroic epics, naxx 10 epics and one shiney bit of t9 lol, and today i did a whole load of random pug heroics, and kept ending up with full T9 and in some cases partly T10 dps who would all dps different targets >_< luckily the healer could cope, but i went mental when they started having a go at me when they werent dpsing my target after i'd asked them to several times >_<

[Legsbiter]

Don't ninja the Battered Hilt. Add that.

[Epar]

1.) If you are not the tank, you don't pull! Even if you're wearing plate, or have bear form, if you're there as DPS, your job is to kill what the tank pulls, not to make the pull. The tank is the tank, and only the tank pulls. DKs, that also means NO DEATH GRIPPING!

Then tell the tank to pull faster. Stop spending 10 minutes trying to mark targets that will die in less than 10 seconds. Typically I don't pull unless I know the tank, but if they need pushing then they need pushing.

30k health for a tank? 20k seems fine to me, as long as they're defense capped. I mean 30k seems doable in 200's with proper gems and enchants but meh who am I to judge?

Healers shouldn't have to stop and drink every other pull. Theres your requirement.

[Retyu]

i have atm stoped tanking in Hc's, cause i'm a bit afraid of ppl who push push faster then i feal comfortible and what i feal with my experince as tank.
yes i like it when it goes fast, but relax abit, trying now to slowly gear my tank up as dps.

The rule you made here are great, i love them and i would and will follow them my self atleast.

[Rainec]

- don't be stupid
- if you do a partial guild run of either of the hilt instances, don't lfg system pug a person and decide to not clear the instances, you are wasting their time
- kick the tank if hes got 30k or less hp
- kick the obviously just reached 80 demo lock thats pulling less than a thousand dps
- set the loot to group, not the crappy default need before greed in lfg system pugs (its really stupid that an elem shaman with ilvl 200 items cant need cloth er leather gear with insanely huge stat increases even when the group has all plate and melee dps (yes it has happened before, its just stupid))

[Zeuq]

As a Healer, I'll say that the 30k HP for a tank is overkill unless you're running H ToC or harder, then 20k is plenty reasonable. For all but H ToC and H ICC 5-mans, being uncrittable means much more to me. I'd rather see a 20k HP tank with 535 Defense than a 30k HP tank with 490 Defense. Seriously, unless the healer is also undergeared, there's no reason to ask for more than that he is actually tank specced and is uncrittable when that was pretty much all we had a year ago, and now everyone's gear is way better.