Why is the broken vanish fix not easy?

[Rindolor]

Fix: Make rogue immune to damage up to 1 second after using vanish

Is this really that hard to code? I heard Blizz was considering this, but then decided it would somehow make rogues overpowered...I suppose balancing them around a broken mechanic makes sense?

Anyway, as of the past week I tried giving my rogue alt a go again, and I think I've discovered every which way to be frustrated by stealth/vanish. I can understand maybe a hunter arrow being in travel and hitting me far after I vanish, but just today I was hit by a DK's melee swing knocking me back out of stealth...really? I need to time vanish with my opponents swing timer?

Easy fix is easy imo, unless I'm missing something

[Yoe]

This topic is like 5 years old now, you can't really go anywhere on a rogue forum without seeing a complaint or people suggesting how to fix it. Blizzard tried the immunity, it didn't work. There now trying to fix how it works in relation to client side/ server side. But who knows you just have to learn to play around it, it certainly adds more skill to the class at the least

[Deleted]

As someone with having a main Rogue as character I have only to say "GOD YES FIX THE DAMN ABILITY ALREADY".

The thing is that Vanish has been broken for so incredibly long now, a lot of pvp talents and abilities have apparently been balanced around the broken version of Vanish.
To me it would seem easy as well. Make vanish break combat, stop all white damage and incoming instants and stop all ticking dot-effects for 1-2 seconds before resuming them. Make sure that the rogue has a fair chance of actually using the power for which it has been designed without giving everyone else the idea that all their effort is absolutely useless.
Besides, if you want the dots to stop you use Cloak before Vanishing anyway.

But I'm not a programmer or a developer or a theorycrafter, so all I have to go by is Blizzard saying "Yes, it's that difficuilt to fix. Enjoy your broken Vanish a little longer."

[Deleted]

Fix: Make rogue immune to damage up to 1 second after using vanish

Is this really that hard to code? I heard Blizz was considering this, but then decided it would somehow make rogues overpowered...I suppose balancing them around a broken mechanic makes sense?

Anyway, as of the past week I tried giving my rogue alt a go again, and I think I've discovered every which way to be frustrated by stealth/vanish. I can understand maybe a hunter arrow being in travel and hitting me far after I vanish, but just today I was hit by a DK's melee swing knocking me back out of stealth...really? I need to time vanish with my opponents swing timer?

Easy fix is easy imo, unless I'm missing something

I will answer a question with a question.

Why don't you read blue posters?

They fixed vanish on the PTR - but it made vanish too OP and they decided that was not the way they wanted to go.
To fix vanish they need to update the way the spells work which is more than a right click -> edit job.

[Rindolor]

I will answer a question with a question.

Why don't you read blue posters?

They fixed vanish on the PTR - but it made vanish too OP and they decided that was not the way they wanted to go.
To fix vanish they need to update the way the spells work which is more than a right click -> edit job.

Well thats what I'm getting at. How did it make it too OP? Did it make it do more than what the tooltip states? Or did they realize that vanish working as intended just gave rogues too much of an edge to control the fight?

[Ake]

Imo why not just make Stealth unbreakable for 3 seconds after vanish is applied, this way the rogue will still take damage from the incoming spell cast/ melee stike but still gets the benefits of staying in stealth.

[Yoe]

Imo why not just make Stealth unbreakable for 3 seconds after vanish is applied, this way the rogue will still take damage from the incoming spell cast/ melee stike but still gets the benefits of staying in stealth.

Because thats not what vanish is about. They don't want it so you can smash your face on the keyboard and get away with 2k health left. They want it so it is still skillfull to use and they want it so others still have the chance to find you using AoE attacks etc. Giving it to longer immunity even 1 second made it so other classes couldnt then use an AoE spell to find you. Edit and at 0.5 seconds they still found that spells already in the air was still hitting us

Now before you say well great thats how we want vanish go think about balance for a second and realise that would be rather stupid

[Corathor]

They gave it a 1 sec 'CoS' effect which is/was OP.. they reduced the timer/duration of that to half a second.. was still too OP (due to the fact that rogues already have the best 'control' in the game when it comes to pvp.. the ability to completely remove themselves from combat.. start out of combat.. stunlocks, disorients, poisons, bleeds....) if they correct Vanish to what -you- want.. then they need to nerf some of the other shit rogues have for pvp

[Rindolor]

*edit*

I'm an idiot

[Corathor]

30 seconds ago, lol...

and.. what is this SS supposed to prove?

[Rindolor]

and.. what is this SS supposed to prove?

*edit*

I'm an idiot

[Yoe]

That I don't even need to be hit by that lucky swing timer to break stealth. Just missing/dodging/sneezing at me while I vanish will break my stealth.

Try being a bit more clever when using it then and read some of the replys in this thread, it has been broken for a very long time and it won't be fixed anytime soon

As a rogue you have to adapt and overcome

[Deleted]

Well thats what I'm getting at. How did it make it too OP? Did it make it do more than what the tooltip states? Or did they realize that vanish working as intended just gave rogues too much of an edge to control the fight?

It wasn't working as intended. People were just using vanish to stop damage because they were immune for 1 second rather than using vanish to get away (if that makes sence).

Clearly the change made vanish into something they didn't want it to become.

[baconwing]

and.. what is this SS supposed to prove?

you vanished and cheap shotted him......... ofcourse you came out of vanish.

yes i know vanish is broken, but this SS does not show a broken vanish, it shows a rogue using vanish to get a cheapshot off.

[Ake]

Because thats not what vanish is about. They don't want it so you can smash your face on the keyboard and get away with 2k health left. They want it so it is still skillfull to use and they want it so others still have the chance to find you using AoE attacks etc. Giving it to longer immunity even 1 second made it so other classes couldnt then use an AoE spell to find you. Edit and at 0.5 seconds they still found that spells already in the air was still hitting us

Now before you say well great thats how we want vanish go think about balance for a second and realise that would be rather stupid

ok then why not just make it immune to the next hit - still take damage but stay in stealth

[Corathor]

ok then why not just make it immune to the next hit - still take damage but stay in stealth

Why not just adapt? The ability has been this way since vanilla wow, there are plenty of damn good rogues out there that just do what they do regardless of 'ability is not working as intended' and they get along just fine.. and besides.. they do not want vanish to become another pve tool to 'avoid damage', IE: back in Kara on prince where rogues would just simply CoS every time prince would do that ability, (cant remember the name)

[Rindolor]

you vanished and cheap shotted him......... ofcourse you came out of vanish.

yes i know vanish is broken, but this SS does not show a broken vanish, it shows a rogue using vanish to get a cheapshot off.

Yeah, ok I'm an idiot. I screenshot the fight I guess at the farm, and not earlier at Mine where I was hit by the same DK while stealthed. Though when I scrolled up in my combat log to SS the Mine fight I saw the "dodged" and loss of stealth and raged :P


tl;dr I'm an idiot who has to learn2SS >.>

[Yoe]

ok then why not just make it immune to the next hit - still take damage but stay in stealth

Dunno, im not a programmer of blizzards level, but trust me i'm sure if it was that simple they would have thought off it and done it

[Fornaw]

Fix: Make rogue immune to damage up to 1 second after using vanish

Is this really that hard to code? I heard Blizz was considering this, but then decided it would somehow make rogues overpowered...I suppose balancing them around a broken mechanic makes sense?

...

Easy fix is easy imo, unless I'm missing something

They tried this on the PTR. There were two issues with it, #1 vanish was STILL breaking, though somewhat less than previously, #2 it was encouraging rather poor behavior (vanishing damage you shouldn't be able to avoid like this in PvE/PvP). The longer the immunity is extended the worse the second effect is going to get.

[Orcbert]

DK hits scourge strike, info sent from his computer to server.
Rogue hits vanish, info sent from computer to server.

In a perfect world, what would happen here is the rogue takes damage from the SS then vanishes, but we don't have a perfect world, we have lag.

So here's what happens on the server side b/c dk lags a bit:
Rogue vanishes, rogue gets hit by scourge strike, damage breaks stealth.

Alternatively b/c rogue hits vanish first, info sent to server, but vanish did not reach the dk's client in time so the DK's computer is still showing visible rogue. He SS's, so the same thing as before is read by the server:
Rogue vanishes, rogue gets hit by scourge strike, damage breaks stealth.

This senario is very difficult to program out, and deals alot with physical limitations of hardware or physics in general. Remember how amazing it is that we have a damn near real time battle going on with someone in Alaska and someone in Florida, and remember that there are thousands of miles this info is going over.

If we had an immunity put into place it could be abused by the rogue to avoid damage they shouldn't be able to avoid, and it could also screw over the player fighting the rogue. Lets say the rogue vanishes, and the warrior he is fighting was ready for this. Rogue vanishes, warrior thunderclaps, lag isn't a huge issue, but rogue gets away scott free with his vanish.

Alternatively, lets have some lag moments with the immunity to show you what could happen.:

Mage casts pyroblast at rogue, the rogue hits vanish after the pyroblast is cast. There is lag for the mage, and even though they hit the button first the rogue's vanish reaches the server first. Now the pyroblast hits the rogue, but he is immune and stays in stealth.

It's just a complicated problem that is due to latency, not coding.