WTB free PvP trinket.

[zombie]

I personally think, and have for awhile now, it's stupid that humans get a free PvP trinket as one of their racials. They are the ONLY class that gets to start a character and level it with a PvP trinket racial. Some people claim that it's not that big of a deal, and maybe it's not while leveling but in endgame PvP it's basically a free spot to use any trinket they want. It's widely accepted that a PvP trinket is necessary in arenas and, more often than not, extremely useful in BGs. Humans don't have to worry about that trinket spot and can use 2 separate trinkets of their choosing. This extra trinket gives more room for trinket procs/uses/stat combinations that everyone else just does not have. Some might say they added new trinkets with different stats on them for more customization, and they'd be right; although crit vs resil isn't much of a choice when realize that you have no option for procs or usable abilities. Undead had something similar with WoTF until Blizzard decided to put it on the same CD as the PvP trinkets. It still may not be a HUGE, game-breaking deal but I really think it would help level the playing field because those trinkets are so mandatory that most people don't have a choice but to use one.

Any thoughts?

[Nenavn]

Personally, I think that racial should be changed/replaced.
Though it's just one trinket slot... Not horrendusly OP.

[ComputerNerd]

Racials are getting overhauled, but if you really want to flame unfairness of human racials then you can just as easily do so for the rep gain, which is unique and a huge advantage in gaining realm firsts.
The stealth detection could very easily be seen as overpowered, but notably from the view of rogues, the ability to get an opener with little chance of being countered and to reset the fight multiple times to reuse openers is rather unfair as a mechanism.

[Toad]

I agree as well. If you are serious about pvp on alliance and your class has the option to be human you really should never chose any of the other races. If trinkets were just stat sticks and didn't have huge advantages it would be one thing, but trinkets nowadays are very powerful and having the ability to have 2 and not stick with the pvp trink is amazing.

[zombie]

Racials are getting overhauled, but if you really want to flame unfairness of human racials then you can just as easily do so for the rep gain, which is unique and a huge advantage in gaining realm firsts.
The stealth detection could very easily be seen as overpowered, but notably from the view of rogues, the ability to get an opener with little chance of being countered and to reset the fight multiple times to reuse openers is rather unfair as a mechanism.

I'm not looking to flame human racials, just point out that they have this unfair advantage. It'd be like giving Blood Elves the ability to put stats on tabards as a racial or something along those lines.

[Erinol]

No comment on blood elf racial silence or tauren warstomp or UD's will or gnome's snare escape, NE shadowmeld, etc.

All racials serve a purpose. You're basically saying "This trinket > stun/silence/fear remove/snare remove/meld" which you can't really prove because it's situational and depends on class, but I respect that this is your opinion. Regardless, I think it's a very bold claim to say it needs to be nerfed.

[zombie]

I agree as well. If you are serious about pvp on alliance and your class has the option to be human you really should never chose any of the other races. If trinkets were just stat sticks and didn't have huge advantages it would be one thing, but trinkets nowadays are very powerful and having the ability to have 2 and not stick with the pvp trink is amazing.

Exactly : ] I've talked to plenty of people who feel the same way, yet when I look around the forums I never see a post about the issue.

[zombie]

No comment on blood elf racial silence or tauren warstomp or UD's will or gnome's snare escape, NE shadowmeld, etc.

All racials serve a purpose. You're basically saying "This trinket > stun/silence/fear remove/snare remove/meld" which you can't really prove because it's situational and depends on class, but I respect that this is your opinion. Regardless, I think it's a very bold claim to say it needs to be nerfed.

Well the UD WoTF is on the same CD as a PvP trinket so it really serves no purpose when you have one equipped. The Gnome racial is just snare while Human is snare/stun/fear/ect. The silence and stomp are different and act like a lot of abilities different classes already have. The closest ability the Human racial can be compared to would be a pally's bubble (as a get-you-out-of-stun thing) but even that can't be cast when silenced while the Human racial can.

I never said it needed to be nerfed, either. Just that it should be even across the board and all races should have the ability.

[Erinol]

Well the UD WoTF is on the same CD as a PvP trinket so it really serves no purpose when you have one equipped. The Gnome racial is just snare while Human is snare/stun/fear/ect. The silence and stomp are different and act like a lot of abilities different classes already have. The closest ability the Human racial can be compared to would be a pally's bubble (as a get-you-out-of-stun thing) but even that can't be cast when silenced while the Human racial can.

I never said it needed to be nerfed, either. Just that it should be even across the board and all races should have the ability.

WoTF only has a 45 second shared CD. That DOES serve a purpose. The gnome one doesn't share a CD with anything so if you have that you can get out of a slow and still trinket later. Dwarf stoneform can get off bleeds diseases and poisons. If you're a rogue you can get a restealth on a warrior through a bleed (or a death knigth without having to cloak), or anybody could use it to get wound poison off for a quick heal, or crippling off to get away

As for "silence and stomp are different abilities" : trinkets basically give you unique abilities... If there was a trinket that allowed you to aoe silence for 2 seconds, I bet a lot of people would use it. All these things are ALL SITUATIONAL. Having an extra pvp trinket for free really serves NO purpose if you were playing a class where you would be better off
1) using a pvp trinket for the one hundred and fifty-three resilience
2) using a pvp trinket so that you can wear more pve gear in other places

The second option effects almost any class. For example, on my TR mage. The blood elf silence is amazing. I run with dislodged foreign object and medalion of the horde. If I were to get another trinket, my options would be muradin's spyglass (crit and SP that would probably fall off at some points while cc'ed or reseting) Or reign of the dead (SP and extra burst) But instead, I can wear, for example, the t10 chest, plague scientist's boots, etc.

It's good in some situations, but not all.

[Thallidomaniac]

The closest ability the Human racial can be compared to would be a pally's bubble (as a get-you-out-of-stun thing) but even that can't be cast when silenced while the Human racial can.

You can use Divine Shield while silenced. You just can't use it right after you get interrupted and the Holy school of spells being locked out for X seconds.

[dratnos]

No.

Humans do not receive an advantage in PvP at the top-end, they just recieve their pvp trinket before others. Think of it like this.

Trolls or Orcs get a PvE trinket + 2 of their choice.

Humans get a PvP trinket + 2 of their choice.

Trolls or Orcs can get a PvP trinket and have 2 PvE trinkets, the same thing as humans can get if they equip 2 PvE trinkets. However, Trolls and Orcs can also select 3 PvE trinkets. For this reason, Trolls and Orcs actually receive the better racial.

[Scryn]

No.

Humans do not receive an advantage in PvP at the top-end, they just recieve their pvp trinket before others. Think of it like this.

Trolls or Orcs get a PvE trinket + 2 of their choice.

Humans get a PvP trinket + 2 of their choice.

Trolls or Orcs can get a PvP trinket and have 2 PvE trinkets, the same thing as humans can get if they equip 2 PvE trinkets. However, Trolls and Orcs can also select 3 PvE trinkets. For this reason, Trolls and Orcs actually receive the better racial.

human racial > orc/troll racial for pvp... the racial trinkets are no where near as powerful as top end pve trinkets

[dratnos]

human racial > orc/troll racial for pvp... the racial trinkets are no where near as powerful as top end pve trinkets

So the choices for PvP:

ORC/Troll: 1 Strong PvP Trinket (+150 Resil) + 1 Strong PvE trinket + 1 weak PvE trinket.

Human: 1 Weak PvP Trinket (+0 Resil) + 2 Strong PvE trinket.

Hardly game-breaking in favor of the humans.

[Janaa]

Yawn @ this tired discussion.

Yes, humans gain a trinket slot which is useful for pvp and pve. But the extra trinket slot is not a game-breaker. Yes, humans can break an ability every 2 minutes. Just like taurens can stomp and interrupt, as can blood elves (and more frequently). The truth is, if humans didn't have this racial, they'd just have the PVP trinket in one of the slots, and be using it instead.

The advantage gained by the extra trinket they're using is not enough to beat you, unless they're stronger characters. It sounds like you're speaking from a 1v1 perspective, which the game is never based around. Humans don't get any immunity when they use it - just slap whatever you want straight back on them. AOE silences/interrupts are much more useful in PVP.

Lets look at it this way:

If you were a human, and there was a PVP trinket available which gave you an instant 8-yard AOE interrupt/silence, would you use it in one of your slots? Of course you would. And a DPS trinket in the other slot. So, your arrangement would be:

Humans
Racial: Stun/snare/etc break
Trinket 1: AOE silence/interrupt
Trinket 2: DPS trinket

Compare this to a Blood Elf:
Blood Elf
Racial: AOE silence/interrupt
Trinket 1: Stun/snare/etc break
Trinket 2: DPS trinket

The thing is, there isn't an AOE silence trinket available to humans. So they use two DPS/stam/whatever trinkets. The very mild stat/proc bump isn't breaking PVP. In fact, in the scenario above - Blood Elves actually have it better, because they CAN have all 3 of those.

And then theres the PVE racial advantages that horde have, etc.

Look - every race has specific situation advantages. 1 on 1, a human will have a slight advantage vs several other individual classes/races. As soon as you bring another player into this equation, this is nullified. Its no different from how Death Knights have an advantage 1 on 1 against many other individual classes - the game isn't balanced around the 1v1.

Besides - don't fret. Blizzard will nerf the human racial. You do know they hate Alliance and love Horde right? They'll use Cataclysm as an opportunity to nerf duration and effect of all Alliance PVP racials, and give us a couple of situational PVE racials instead and go "there fixed", while buffing the hell out of horde racials for PVP and PVE. Hell - look at Goblins alone, and thats before any other Horde racial changes are announced..

[rxh33]

just log on to the TR and see 99 out of 100 characters being human, nuffsaid

[Melonberry]

Humans give up their ap/haste/stealth/etc racial to get a pvp one. So you either get 2 stat trinkets and a pvp racial or 1 pvp trinket, 1 dps trinket, 1 dps racial.

What's the difference?

[rxh33]

the difference is that there is no racial that equals current ilvl264 trinkets.
what dps racials are you talkin about anyway, orcs? 163sp on a 2min cd? thats cool.

i would totally trade my
http://www.wowhead.com/item=50353
or
http://www.wowhead.com/item=50360
on my sp for that cool ability!

oh wait.

dont know about melees tho, never played one, cant really say if trinkets are equally powerful for them, but i would go with a HELL YEAH!

[Clous17]

Humans racial was fine when it was implemented. DMC and Bandits Insignia was retarded for rogues, but past that it was pretty "fair"

Nowadays with the gear available, human racial is borderline gamebreaking. Especially for warriors, and disc/hpaladins. Double solace is so fucking stupid. I don't know how you can "nerf" the racial without removing it though. I'm sure when they revamp racials they will replace it with something else, so it's all good.

[Vikzter]

I would love to have a human rogue with the following setup for pvp:

http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/42990/darkmoon-card-death/
http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/40371/bandits-insignia/
http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/41091/h...d-pyro-rocket/
http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/49296/s...e-bloodletter/
http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/49501/t...e-bloodletter/

Im not sure if i missed anything, but i guess you see my point, having as many extra dmg items as possible therefor having a great burst in the stunlock

U might wonder why this is related to the TOPIC - 1 extra DMG trinket > the different racials of the other races!

[zombie]

This post was never QQ about how broken the racial is or that it should be removed or nerfed. I was just looking to see if others agreed that the playing field should be leveled and have that "racial" as an across-the-board ability that ALL races have (being that it's so mandatory in most PvP situations). People say an extra trinket isn't a big deal, but trinkets these days are really powerful and it would help a lot more in most situations than they might think.