Shield Wall, what?

[Sevyvia]

I need some clearing up on Shield Wall numbers from people in the beta or on the PTR. Yes, I know I could wait 2 days for the patch to be applied in europe, but I am impatient. Bear (Har har) in mind that I am excluding druids because I don't know anything about their Cataclysm skills or mechanics. So, the following are ways for classes to reduce all incoming damage, excluding avoidance stats and masteries.

Paladins:

Guardian of Ancient Kings, 60% damage reduction, 2 minute CD (Talented).
Divine Protection, 20% damage reduction, 1 minute CD.
Ardent Defender, 20% damage reduction, saves from death once, 3 minute CD.

Death Knights:

Icebound Fortitude, 60% damage reduction (Talented), 2 minute CD.
Will of the Necropolis, 25% damage reduction and Blood Tap CD refreshed when brought below 30% hp, 45 second ICD.
Bone Shield, 20% damage reduction (3 charges with 1 depleted every hit), 1 minute CD.

Warriors:

Shield Wall, 40% damage reduction, 2 minute CD (Talented).
Shield Block (Physical melee hits only), 30% damage reduction, 30 second CD (Talented).



So basically, Warriors are now stuck with a worse version of the main tank damage reduction cooldown, unless they glyph it to 60% and then have a cooldown that is double of what the other tank classes have? Is this really what it's like?

[Thalruin]

Yes, and we have the best minor cooldown for physical mitigation of the lot.

[Deminthus]

why not include ardent defender for paladins its a 20% dmg reduction plus a self rez

[Sevyvia]

Yes, and we have the best minor cooldown for physical mitigation of the lot.

While that is true, it doesn't really change the fact that Shield Wall is now a crap version of abilities that more or less come from it to begin with. I can only say that I'm glad I am not in any sort of top guild, if this really stays live until and past 7th of December.

why not include ardent defender for paladins its a 20% dmg reduction plus a self rez

It's there now, thanks for reminding me.

[Battousai]

Shield block combined with critical block is going to be a talent that will be when the gear is there to support it somewhere between incredibly good and extrememly overpowered.

With enough mastery...you're getting a 30% reduction every block and a 60% reduction whenever a critical block procs. Depending on how much mastery and parry we get...this could get out of hand very quickly. I don't think you're looking at the big picture.

[Sevyvia]

I haven't denied that Shield Block is good. It is. And I can see it scaling extremely well, maybe well enough to warrant a nerf down the line. Of course, there's also the thing about half of our mastery bonus going out the window whenever we do use Shield Block, since a bonus to block chance is useless if the chance is already 100%.

That STILL doesn't change the fact that our Shield Wall is a crap version of the others, now. Spell damage is not so rare that this is an insignificant thing at all.

[Volitans]

We also have last stand, which isnt a dmg reduction skill per se, but it definitely is a big tanking cooldown.

The mastery bonus is passive, and while the increased block chance would be wasted when shield block is up, its is still RNG. So maybe you hit shield block, block your hits, then RNG smiles, and your mastery grants you a critical block. Or, you block 3 hits (mastery), and eat the next two

I would much rather have shield block as an o-shit button, that guarantees me a block when needed, even if it impinges on the mastery bonus.

[Moozart]

Yes, and we have the best minor cooldown for physical mitigation of the lot.

Ardent Defender, 20% damage reduction, saves from death once, 3 minute CD.


ill disagree with you sir

---------- Post added 2010-10-11 at 09:57 PM ----------

There is a glyph that will make shield wall identical to the others.

I don't even play warrior and I know this, what's your excuse?

It also adds 2 mins to the CD making it a 4 min CD, try to know wtf your talking about before you chime in

[Dominix]

There is a glyph that will make shield wall identical to the others.

I don't even play warrior and I know this, what's your excuse?

What's your excuse for not reading the entire thread before bitching at someone for not knowing their class? That glyph forces an extra two minutes onto the cooldown just to get it on par with the other two classes mit cooldowns.

IBF 2 min 60%
pallypet 2 min 60%
shield wall 2 min 40% or 4 min 60%

[Deleted]

you forgot to add bone shield, while it only has 3charges and wont last more than 6 seconds, it's still a CD to decrease incomming damage.

But I definetly think something should be done to shield wall, either make it a 1½ min CD, or increase it to atleast 50% (still keep the extra 20% on the glyph tho')

[Deleted]

Why no druid love?

[redsunrising15]

For the same reason that druids have a 60% damage reduction on a 5 MINUTE COOLDOWN.

[Moozart]

Why no druid love?

I hear resto is pretty good

[sithorion]

but druids are bears, so your opinion is invalid

[Organoth]

you forgot to add bone shield, while it only has 3charges and wont last more than 6 seconds, it's still a CD to decrease incomming damage.

But I definetly think something should be done to shield wall, either make it a 1½ min CD, or increase it to atleast 50% (still keep the extra 20% on the glyph tho')

DKs will always have more CDs because we don't have a shield, DKs are designed to be CD tanks. While I agree that Shield Wall should be balanced more like IBF I do not think it will break Warriors ability to tank. You still have your spell reflect for magic damage and your various shield blocking talents/abilities help to manage the physical damage. With Shield Block you have a 100% chance to block an incoming physical hit once a minute, that's pretty huge. While it's not a straight damage reduction it's a CD I'd love to have as a DK.

Specifically for Bone Shield it's sort of looking like a waste of a talent point. With all the CDs we already have I'm going to be using all of them before using Bone Shield. If I get to a point where everything is on CD it's probably a lost cause.

[Deleted]

Last Stand was deleted or something?

[Moozart]

Last Stand was deleted or something?

thats only as good as your healer

[Sevyvia]

Why no druid love?

For the same reason that druids have a 60% damage reduction on a 5 MINUTE COOLDOWN.

As I mentioned in the very first post, Druids aren't included simply because I don't know anything about them. I play a Warrior right now, and this is the Warrior subforum. I certainly see your shared plight, but again, Warrior subforum.

Last Stand was deleted or something?

This thread is about damage reduction abilities and talents. You'll notice I haven't mentioned Vampiric Blood either, for example.



Basically, no, this is not "THE END" of Warrior tanking. Yeah, I will still raid with my 10man group. Does this make me less happy about my Warrior? You bet.

I fail to see any good reason for this situation, simply. "Warriors have the best minor cooldown against physical damage" is at worst unrelated and, at best, if it was to be taken as a valid argument, why do DKs have AMS, arguably the best minor CD against spells, and still a 60%, 2min CD shield wall? Why do Paladins have two 20% damage reduction abilities and still a 60%, 2min CD shield wall? You see where this is going. Not in a productive direction.

Has anyone, in beta or not, seen or heard anything from Blizzard that would justify this situation? I've hardly heard reports along the lines of "WHAT. THE. FUCK. Warrior tanks are OVERPOWERED", so this is a bit baffling to me.

[Saverem]

I need some clearing up on Shield Wall numbers from people in the beta or on the PTR. Yes, I know I could wait 2 days for the patch to be applied in europe, but I am impatient. Bear (Har har) in mind that I am excluding druids because I don't know anything about their Cataclysm skills or mechanics. So, the following are ways for classes to reduce all incoming damage, excluding avoidance stats and masteries.

Paladins:

Guardian of Ancient Kings, 60% damage reduction, 2 minute CD (Talented).
Divine Protection, 20% damage reduction, 1 minute CD.
Ardent Defender, 20% damage reduction, saves from death once, 3 minute CD.

Death Knights:

Icebound Fortitude, 60% damage reduction (Talented), 2 minute CD.
Will of the Necropolis, 25% damage reduction and Blood Tap CD refreshed when brought below 30% hp, 45 second ICD.
Bone Shield, 20% damage reduction (3 charges with 1 depleted every hit), 1 minute CD.

Warriors:

Shield Wall, 40% damage reduction, 2 minute CD (Talented).
Shield Block (Physical melee hits only), 30% damage reduction, 30 second CD (Talented).



So basically, Warriors are now stuck with a worse version of the main tank damage reduction cooldown, unless they glyph it to 60% and then have a cooldown that is double of what the other tank classes have? Is this really what it's like?

Don't bother dude, I made a post about this a few days ago and all I got was flamed. Seems half of the "Warriors" here are really DKs/Pallies in disguise.

No matter what anyone says, Warriors will remain being the worst spell damage tank of the 4 if nothing changes. And before anyone says Spell Reflect, I'm talking about raid bosses, not 5m dungeons or trash.

[sixx]

Don't bother dude, I made a post about this a few days ago and all I got was flamed. Seems half of the "Warriors" here are really DKs/Pallies in disguise.

No matter what anyone says, Warriors will remain being the worst spell damage tank of the 4 if nothing changes. And before anyone says Spell Reflect, I'm talking about raid bosses, not 5m dungeons or trash.

Spell bosses wut!? There never been in the History of WoW an actual Spell boss that requires to be 100% effective vs it at the point that you must have a variety of a big arsenal to be able to tank it.

Why you get flamed? Most warriors here are smart and know that the way the ProtMastery works it's amazing. We may no longer have nice cooldowns and we can feel kinda slacky on that one(something that is completely irrelevant, we still have amazing cooldowns) but we easily have the best passive mitigation way a tank could have. You are focusing and QQng over a simple cooldown and not the entire class mechanic we have now that is really outstanding.

And no, don't expect me to explain to you how it works. Don't be a baddie and research yourself.